Lister Engine Forum

How to / DIY => Generators => Topic started by: alexm on August 27, 2018, 09:36:47 AM

Title: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on August 27, 2018, 09:36:47 AM
Hi,

I've got a Lister ST2 with a Brush 7KVA Start-o-matic attached. I think I have attached a selenium rectifier?

If I change it to a modern equivalent rectifier is there some instructions somewhere for to do?

thanks,

Alex
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 27, 2018, 10:11:17 AM
Hi Alexm, welcome to the LEF. Yes that is an old selenium rectifier and it` over fifty years old. You will find two more in the control panel. The one you have photographed is actually a bridge rectifier and should be replaced with a modern silicon bridge rectifier something like this: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Durable-MDQ150A-150A-1600V-Full-Wave-Diode-Module-Single-Phase-Bridge-Rectifier/123151318385?epid=14019829297&hash=item1cac63fd71:g:5WkAAOSwqYZbBmAp

The new bridge rectifier will need to be mounted on a heat sink, a piece of 6 mm aluminium plate about 150 mm long by 50 mm wide should do nicely.

The two rectifiers in the control panel should be replaced with regular diodes.

Bob
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on August 27, 2018, 04:07:04 PM
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the welcome!

It was actually made in 1978 but they made a lot with ST/SR model numbers stretching back to the sixties. It’s a single phase generator so I don’t think there any more rectifiers to worry about, is there?  ???

Is there some way to tell which way to wire it?

Thanks,

Alex
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: dieselgman on August 27, 2018, 09:49:39 PM
What make on the generator portion? We should have all the wiring schematics and parts listings.

dieselgman
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 27, 2018, 11:25:55 PM
Hi Alexm, the attached drawing should get you going.

I would recommend getting drawings and a service manual

Bob
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on August 28, 2018, 08:32:35 PM
Thanks, I’ve got the drawing that covers the actual alternator case itself. It shows the rectifier plus a resistor, but the resistor only has two wires on the same connector to it... almost like the full load voltage has been set by someone to be the minimum.  ???

“Increasing the resistance [snip] increases the full load voltage”

The rectifier has no markings to it, its only got the Neutral wire to the AC, then 3 unmarked wires going to the unmarked rectifier. There’s two wires to both ends of the middle horizontal bar/connector and one going to the top right horizontal bar/connector. The wire going to the top left bar/connector is the Neutral AC wire.

Does anyone know what wires go where, save me having to work out what wires go where inside the coils  ;D

It does work the way it is, at least it puts out 237V, but I didn’t check load.


Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: glort on August 29, 2018, 04:12:17 AM

Those old deteriorated electrics scare me.
I'd be putting in new, modern Solid state components where I could.  Cheap to buy and would offer a far better level of protection for man and machine as well as reliability.
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on August 29, 2018, 07:58:04 AM
Yes, but I need to know what wires go to where on the new rectifier as I don’t have any experience of generators!  ;D
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 29, 2018, 09:24:15 AM
Hi Alexm, I will try to take the plastic cover off my ST2 tomorrow and take some photos. I do have other commitments in the morning but I will see what I can do. A picture saves thousands of words.

Bob
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on August 29, 2018, 10:06:55 AM
Thanks!  :D
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 29, 2018, 10:41:37 PM
Alexm, a couple of photos as promised. Hope it helps

Bob
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 29, 2018, 10:45:29 PM
Don`t know what happened there, posted two pics only one loaded so here is the other.
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on August 30, 2018, 09:09:11 AM
Thank you Bob, your internals are very clean compared to mine!  ;D

It looks like you have quite a bit more load on your resistor than mine too!
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 30, 2018, 09:33:23 AM
Hi Alexm, mine didn`t start off looking like that believe me. once you have yours running you can adjust the voltage regulation to best suit your requirements. You could fit an automatic voltage regulator but I have stayed away from that due to the number of electrical storms we get here. (lightening and sensitive electronics are a recipe for disaster) We get regular power outages due to lightening, bush fires, trees falling on the lines and etc. We have always been able to carry on as normal thanks to R.A.Lister and Co. :laugh:

Bob
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on August 30, 2018, 12:15:31 PM
This is the first time I have done up a Lister and the first time I’ve done up a generator too! I really like the way Listers are set up and running a low rpm too. I was missing the wall mount cabinet so rather than carry on the 24V system I put on a ring gear and starter motor, took off the solenoids and instead added a fuel tank. I will add a solenoid to turn on/off the fuel and I’ve ordered a DSE 3110 which will switch on and off.

I had done up a few tractors and stuff but a random stroke put pay to that (I only have one functioning arm and a dodgy leg now) so I needed something a little smaller to do up!  :D

https://youtu.be/_KATZC_0N-E
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 30, 2018, 01:18:29 PM
Hi Alexm, like everything, your fist time is never your best but usually the most memorable. I`m sure the best is yet to come. A lot of blokes on the forum have mental and physical health problems including myself. Nothing to be ashamed of and restoring old engines is very therapeutic/addictive and hopefully will preserve some of our heritage for the next generations, while showing off the skills that us old f*cked up fellas have and would like to pass on.
I wonder what the millennials will be restoring in their old age, I phones and windows computers probably.

Just to p*ss you off attached is a photo of the inside of the control panel you re missing for a full SOM. I wouldn`t worry about it as a lot of modern electrical equipment would be destroyed by the 24 volt dc sensing circuit that fires an SOM. I always start mine using the manual option before connecting it to the house but I enjoy knowing that it is still fully functional.

Keep up the good work and stay well,

Bob
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on August 30, 2018, 01:51:46 PM
I don’t think the millennials will do up anything... they’ll chuck it in the ‘recycle bin’ and ship it abroad while they’ll just buy a new one.  ;D

Good photo! Is it 40W or 60W it needs to set it off. I doubt these days many things would set it off... turning on a LED light for example!
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 30, 2018, 02:18:12 PM
Hi Alexm, I wired in a 60 watt light bulb right next to it, with a switch. If the power drops out unexpectedly I can walk down to the shed and flick a switch and have power/light, I then have to walk up to the distribution board and throw the cross over switch. Takes me less than a minutes but I still have to reset every electric device in the house that has a digital timer.  >:(

I worry about the up and coming generations, their skill set is so focused on the throw away society that they can`t do anything for themselves. With advances in computing and robotics they are going to be redundant before they even get started. At least in my youth there were jobs for people who were willing to work and learn skills.

Bob
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on September 22, 2018, 01:31:16 PM
Well, I've wired it up and it only reaches 12V  :-[

I've got the near two connections (that comes off the slip ring) as the AC and the far two (that heads back together toward the windings) are the DC. Is this right?

The two I've got as DC, one was yellow with 'R1' on it and the other one was coloured red (now I've coloured it black and red because that is the only colours I've got!)

Do I need to apply a ‘shunt’ or something? When I tested the old circuit with a volt meter I saw 230V and batteries were disconnected?

Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on September 23, 2018, 09:52:59 AM
Hi Alexm, looks right to me. Try reversing the two wires to the auxiliary field.

Bob.
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on September 23, 2018, 01:24:40 PM
Hi Bob,

At the moment I have no wiring present bar the 5 wires exiting the alternator... I noticed that the black DC and the blue AC neutral are normally wired together, so I did that and this time I saw it count up to 235V   :D

Alex
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: ajaffa1 on September 23, 2018, 02:41:04 PM
Way to go Alex, not bad for a one handed man with a bad leg. Any plans to enter yourself in an arse kicking competition, you just might win?  :laugh:

Bob
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on September 23, 2018, 04:56:32 PM
Ha ha!  ;D

Now we are free of the selenium rectifier I put on a bit of load this time... 3KW heater, 1.2KW heater and a 0.5KW lamp done with ease!

Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on May 11, 2020, 03:06:12 PM
This ST2 got put on hold, kind of...  ;)

Here it is currently (Youtube link):

https://youtu.be/pmEmZY5gU1k

I've got a DSE3110 which I'll get wired in... I was hoping to find someone else who's done it for a Lister?  ;D
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on May 16, 2020, 05:22:20 PM
By the way... I had to 'shunt' (apply excitation) to get it up and running again. I suspect that last time I did it I must have supplied an excitation to the wiring. This time I had the negatives connected (AC+DC) and I just had to apply 12V to the wiring of the DC (the old 24V motor side of things) and it instantly turned on.  8)
Title: Re: Lister ST2 with Brush 7KVA Generator
Post by: alexm on May 18, 2020, 08:00:09 PM
What sort of radio suppressant capacitors work well as replacements?

In the manual it says they are 4uF capacitors (attached between the windings and the generator body) but I can't find any that are just one wire out and other terminal is where it screws to the body. I take it you can solder on the old wire to one terminal and then you need to solder on the other to go to the generator body?

Thanks,

Alex