Lister Engine Forum

How to / DIY => Everything else => Topic started by: glort on July 22, 2018, 04:00:08 PM

Title: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 22, 2018, 04:00:08 PM

In a rare burst of Motivation, I picked up a new toy last week for a project I have become quite keen on. Everything I have in garden equipment is all petrol and nearly all Verticle shaft engines for which there is no Diesel Replacement.

I got myself a Honda F700 2 Wheel Tractor/ Tiller which will be perfect for setting up with one of the several China Diesels I have required and are sitting round the shed.


I wanted another tiller for the garden but after looking at YT vids of what this thing can actually do, I'm very keen on the thing as it will do far more than I thought around the place. As It does not have the rotavator attachment  and the hoes are just fitted to the Drive Axle, the other tiller I have will probably be better for that.  This one with a Ripper will be better for doing hard ground and tearing out tree roots which are everywhere here.

The one I picked up has an old Honda Sidevalve engine rated at 6.8 HP.  The Engine looks in pretty poor nick and does not have spark. After a bit of a washdown and removal of the original engine,  the rest of the thing which is built like a tank looks pretty good.

I was hoping I could do a straight swap with the China Diesel I bought the other day but of course that is wishful thinking. That said, it's not too bad either.  The Diesel is a little longer and wider than the Honda engine so I'll have to make up a new engine mounting plate to move the thing over a little to line up the drive belts and give it something to hang onto on the far end mounting holes.
Just last week I did some Dumpster Diving in a local engineering shops scrap bin and came up with the perfect Size Piece. All I have to do is drill the holes for the diesel and to mount it to the original Mounting holes on the Tractor.

The Diesel I got the other day surprisingly wouldn't take any of the pulleys I have.  Bit of research shows it's a 20mm Pulley Not the standard 3/4 - 19mm.  I'll either have to get a Pulley bored for it ( original 3" is a 22mm Bore) or I'll have to get one of the other Diesels I have out which do have 19mm shafts on the same engine and fit one of those.  I also have a 13 Hp Ruggerini which is a big engine I could fit but I think that's going to take a fair bit more engineering to fit that.  For the smaller engines, not sure if it's worth getting a Taper lock pulley or just a plain ally one will be fine.

After the Mounting plate and Pulley, all I should need is a longer belt and I'll be in business.

There are vids on YT showing these things Pulling single Moldboard  Ploughs as well as single tine Ripper type's.  They have also been fitted with Blades which I would also like to do as there is a LOT of garden I want to strip out and re plant.  I'm thinking to make a Narrow, 30 Cm  Dozer blade  for the thing and a wider one for pushing loose material around.  I have  piece of 1/4" plate  that is nicely sized that I will have to try and bend a curve in it.
I don't have any tools for this so I'm thinking strap the thing to the tree which has the right sort of diameter with a whole bunch of ractchet straps and try  tightening them down in succession till I get the curve I want and a bit more to allow for Flex.

Other thing may be to bend some of the thick flat stock I have and then tack or screw the sheet to that to curve it round.
The machine has a single 30mm receptacle  to take a bar for weights and implements. At the back is a Hitch type fitting where the Ripper Plough attaches.  I'll make a few things to go there, a straight plough Blade, A bigger ripper/ Knife and an offset Cutter for doing the garden edges.

The Diesels I have are 6Hp and have a little more torque than the original petrol engine. There are a few Vids on YT of these machines with Diesel Conversions as well as China petrol engines.  Thinking I might just order a 7 Hp petrol engine in case the diesel isn't a success for any reason as I'm keen to get to work with this thing. Come to think of it, I have a brand new 13 Hp petrol as well as a diesel up the back shed.

I'll post up some Pics tomorrow of the thing and progress so far. I left the camera in the garage and as we are advancing well toward the -4 C night predicted, I'm not going up there now for them!  :0)
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: veggie on July 22, 2018, 10:51:39 PM
Go with the diesel !
It's worth the time to do a conversion. You can always switch back in a pinch.
As the world creators ... and fuel becomes scarce, you will be the only micro farm who has fuel (WVO).  ;D

... and we all know how diesel roto-tillers attract women !  :o

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 23, 2018, 12:08:19 AM
Nice tool Glort. Don`t go too big on the engine, diesels have a lot more grunt than petrol engines and you may end up getting through a lot of drive belts.
When I was a kid a neighbor had a similar tool made by Merry Tiller, it had an enormous range of attachments including a trailer with a bench seat. can`t wait to see what you come up with :laugh:

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 23, 2018, 03:11:36 AM
My oily proclivity of the last 16 years makes me rather partial to the compression ignition engine. Id like to convert all the garden equipment to diesels but most of it is verticle shaft and i cant find any 5/6 hp diesels to use.

Surprisingly bob,the rating of the low comp 6.8 hp Honda engine (6.0:1) and the 6 hp diesel are only 2 nm different.  I thought it would be more and was thinking of gearing the thing up slightly to take advantage of it. Think I  leave it the same

The drive belt is a B series so should be ok with the power transfer. I was going to put a doube belt but the geabox is a splined shaft and i can guess my chances of getting one of those in the right bore size.

Other thing i am working may come in handy for this.
I bought  one of those hydrulic engine cranes and am modifying that.  First thing iis decent size wheels. Got lsome good 6" swivels so o can roll the thing over the lawn. Next is to put another mast or place for one so i can have more reach and height. I am going to put a platform on the back so i can put a 44 on it as a counterbalance and fill that with water.

Jacking these things is primative so i have already started on making up a bracket to hang my electric winch so the lifting is push button. The scrap bin down the road has been most obliging in furnishing the thickwall sq tube for the build that will let me make the thing a lot stronger than it comes out the box.

Getting over lifting things like engines and equipment especially out the ute. Been spoiled at my fathers place with a forklift which just drives home the point.
Be great to be able to put the lister and the merc engines where i want them which will probably shortly be on their own transports.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 23, 2018, 10:38:01 AM
Hey Buddy, definitely looks like you have your Mojo back and working well. Surprised by the small difference between the Honda and the diesel, but Honda engines never fail to surprise me.

Remarkable what one person can move given a stable anchor point and a winch vertically or horizontally. I`ve moved 2 ton band saw wheels using nothing more than a hand winch and a pry bar.

I have a neighbor who has a diesel lawn mower.  I`ll ask him what make it is and let you know so you can look out for one.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 23, 2018, 11:23:32 AM

Didn't get anything done today on the tractor, whole day got taken up with the Mrs going off to have a good time and enjoy herself at the hospital.  Getting so a man can't even work on his tractor with out selfish interruption from people that want to galavanting about, living it up while poor old tractors sit there helpless.

Bloody hospital was supposed to ring when she was out. I had to ring them when I got worried. NOT a mistake they are likely to make again with her and I'm sure they will know who I am if I should have reason to ring again.  All is OK thankfully but tomorrow and the next day will probably be further interrupted with visiting and bringing her home.  I'll have to ask when they go in if they have a shipping service or something. Couldn't find anything about delivery on their website, they can't be very up with the times!

Anyway, a few pics of the new toy.

This was the setup with the old engine.  Couple of pulleys and an idler on an arm for the clutch.  thinking I'll have to get the pulley, measure out the distance round everything then get a belt.  Geez they aren't cheap no days either!


Engine removed, washed down, ready for it's transplant.  Unfortunately it won't quite pull that plough off to the right but I'll make something up for it.
I could maybe use a tine off that plough but being 108 years old, Don't fancy my chances of getting the bolts undone.


This is the bit of plate I want to try and bend using the tree behind for the dozer blade.  Can strengthen it up with some other flat stock I can put on it and make a linkage.  Might make up a blade for the bottom edge as well.

The other piece I'll make a double ended Knife/ Ripper out of.  Good thick stock and I can get out a burner and heat it up then bash an edge onto, sharpen and temper it.  I want to be able to cut through small roots with the thing as there are way too many shrubs and trees here..... at the moment.


Might also take the flared gaurds off, see if I can panel beat them a bit closer to their original shape and even squander my Daughters inheritance on a can of undercoat and some Gloss enamel.  Go nuts and do the wheels as well.
I notice the pic from Honda has the obligatory walking tractor single headlight on it. None of the other pics I have seen of these do but I'll  make it look the part in a modern way with an LED Lightbar I have.  Diesel Engine is electric start which I probably won't bother with but can still run the alternator output from the Reg to power the Light bar.

Damn sure I'll never be up before the sun using the thing but when the ploughin is all done, might be handy to have a good light to cook the BBQ by.
I'll have to pull the wheels off as I think they can be reversed and set wider. Give the thing better handling and grip in those High speed Corners. 

The next thing when it's up and running will be to do a decent trailer for the thing.
Something like this would be good I reckon!

(   ;D
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 23, 2018, 12:01:26 PM

Hey Bob,

It's been a tough few weeks but ATM at least I'm able to get round and do a few things. I thought if I posted this up here maybe I'll feel a bit of pressure and commitment to get it finished at least.  I have been frustrated since we got here that i don't have the tools for the job I want to do with the garden and haven't been able to find the tractor i wanted.  I have realised that I should be able to do the majority of what I want with this thing as they seems to be deceivingly powerful.  What I can't do might be able to be done with just a weekends hire of a little 1.7 ton excavator.

We want to take out a lot of the shrubbery round here and plant some Box Hedge. There was a place up the road for sale some months back that had this and it was a great inspiration with giving us ideas for what we'd like to do here.  i'm sure the plants here were great once but they are now a bit over grown  and unkempt. I pulled a lot of flax out the other day with teh car and the amount of dead leaves and rubbish in it just made it a snake haven come summer.  Given the deadliest snake in the world is prolific round here and there were several sightings last summer as close as next door on both sides and up the back, getting rid of this stuff is going to be more than a visual appeal.   Half a mind just to set fire to it all to clear it out before I rip it up but I can imagine it would take about 10 Min before the firey's arrived and the irate neighbors would be here well before that. Can't say I would really blame them.

I have been trying to think of a way to build a monster shredder. There is going to be a LOT of material to get rid of and If I could come up with some great spinning blade contraption I could feed it into, that would be great.
Thinking of something like a Lawn mower on it's side with some sort of shoot to guide the material into . Other thing I had in mind was getting hold of a shaft and bearing I saw the other day at my mates place that had a large industrial fan on it.  Power that Up with an engine and weld a bunch of chains on the shaft to make like a flail shredder.  Wouldn't that send the safety sissys into orbit if I put that on YT!!

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 23, 2018, 12:16:21 PM
Hey Glort, very glad to hear your wife went through surgery OK. :) As for shipping, I think she might be slightly miffed if you send a courier to collect her from hospital! That said, if she is in pain , an ambulance delivery service might be better than  a ride in the back of the ute. I`ve been in the back of enough ambulances recently to be able to speak for the comfort and service they provide. Thank God for the selfless individuals that give their time to our emergency services.
You could ship her to a quality hotel or spar and meet her there but I know from experience that when you are crook you just want to be at home with your loved ones and that includes you! :) Stop buggering about with engines and etc for a while, look after her, she is irreplaceable and needs you now more than you can imagine.

The Steel plate can probably be bent by cutting a couple of steel formers to the shape required and then tacking the plate to one edge. Use your oil burner to warm it up till it glows and then beat it around the former with a big hammer. Tack it as you go and you should end up with a blade to be proud of.


Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 23, 2018, 12:50:18 PM
Hey Buddy, my advice on a shredder is don`t buy one or build one unless you have the time to feed sh1t into it. When I bought my property most of was covered in lantana, so I spent the first six months felling it and feeding it into a shredder. Now I pile it up and let it rot, turns out to be great compost for the veggie garden.

Another suggestion is to have a chat with the council guys that keep the kerb sides clear, they have industrial shredders and an insatiable appetite for Bunderberg rum. One bottle should get all your waste mulched and in a nice pile awaiting use. Never underestimate the willingness of council employees to provide you with any service you require for a small donation to their alcohol dependency fund. :laugh:

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 23, 2018, 03:02:39 PM

 Don't worry Bob, al already have the Nurses uniform at the ready for when she comes home.
Knowing her, she WILL want me to stay up the shed and get annoyed if I fuss over her.  I can hear it now, " I'm not a cripple, I'm not dead, just leave me alone and don't treat me like i'm dying" .

We were sitting in the waiting room this morning and she's looking throuth the hospital magazine and says, " i'd like to go on a holiday." I point out she was the one that insisted I do the job in NZ later in the year so we could make that a holiday but she said I'd like to go here and pointed to a pic of Private huts sitting on top of the water in the maldives.

I promised I would take her there.

Just as soon as those Lotto numbers come up.
I reminded her of well heeled mate that went there last year for 5 days at $2500 per night and was far happier with the place they stopped at on the way back that cost $150 night. Me, for all that's wrong with it, I am happy and most comfortable and relaxed on the gold coast.

You really are a true Aussie Bob!
The things I have got with liquid Currency over the years.  Learned that from a very young age from a couple of uncles that were gangers on the local Council.  One of them got huge extentions done to his house with all materials provided by the council or their suppliers whom he used to be in charge of buying materials from. They were the good old days!

when I was young I started up a lawn mowing business. Uncle put me onto the guy who serviced all the equipment.  A slab got me a trailer full of Mowers, edger, really good brooms, rakes and shovels. All the mowers were in for repair and had been fixed but the guy wrote them off as U/S and they were replaced with new ones. all I had to do was sand off the council numbers and stickers!

I'm not sure what the council still does here. A lot of stuff now is done by contractors. Probably ex council workers!
I was thinking of buying a bunch of those cubic meter Bulka bags and putting stuff in them then finding some local dumpsters and making a deposit on the night they are collected.  That way the stuff goes and the bin is empty for the businesses in the morning.

What I might look at is Booking one of our annual council free cleanups and then offering the guys a slab to load ALL the bags I have in not just the 3 allowed.  I could have a fair few bags though.

The Bulka bags are great for those collections. For years I have got them and loaded them up with everything I wanted to get rid of. Of couse most of that is on the long " we will not take" list which outdoes what they will allow you to get rid of.  Bit of legit suff on the bottom of the bag, all the contraband in the middle and top it off with the allowable.  3 nice neat bags out the front, guy don't give a rats what's in them.  They get a time allocation for each collection and instead of having to load all the crap by hand, they get to me, 2 blokes on each bag straight in the back of the compactor and they have 9 minutes up their sleeve to get ahead with or just shoot the breeze and have Smoko. 

The trouble with that idea and the composting one is ai have a lot of this Climbing rose crap. The stuff is like natural barbed wire. all weird angles, tough as steel and way too loose to rot. Also damned hard and more dangerous to stuff in a bag than using some dubious home made shredder. I can't even get it in a 44 to burn the crap too well.  Why the previous owner ever grew it I have no idea but then again, he let it go nuts and left it for me to clean the rotten stuff up.

At least all the other should pack in bags OK.

A shredder would at least be another way to put an engine to work..... which in turn would allow me to point out the necessity and practicality of buying more!   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: mike90045 on July 23, 2018, 05:06:17 PM
Can you get (buy or rent) "walk behind brush mowers" there ?
They can chew up a 2 or 3 inch sapling, big tough hammer cutter on the end of a rotary blade
Like a chipper shredder on wheels
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 23, 2018, 11:33:46 PM
Nurse Glort? God help your poor wife. Maybe you are right and you should stay in the shed. Please don`t wear the nurses uniform when doing the shopping, you`ll probably get arrested. :laugh:

Love the mobile shredder Mike, I`ve got to get me one of those.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 24, 2018, 12:47:49 AM

I look a lot at those DR power equipment  Vids on YT. They have some great heavy duty Stuff.  I have shown them to my father then a few days later he's rung me telling me he has been talking to people all over in mower shops asking if they have different things he's seen and gets annoyed when they tell him no one makes them.  He tells them You don't know very much about your business then because I have seen the advertisements for them and they weren't done 10 years ago.

We were going to look at making up something like a mower with the front lip cut out and replace the blades with old saw Chain.  Too many rocks and things where he is for a straight blade. The other thing was to use steel cable but I think that's going to throw splinters as it wears.

For me the problem I have is a lot of the hard stuff to get rid of is cut but I spose I could just mow it over with one of these. I was thinking to get a trailer mounted tree Chipper as well and just feed it into that. that should eat it up like it's not there but it's the big opening I need to get the stuff in.
I might try taking the big stuff out and just lay it out up the back and go over it with the ride on.  Probably just tangle everything. It's foul rotten rubbish.

Years ago I started a lawn Mowing run. Used to get a lot of  " Clean up jobs" where the grass was 3 ft + High.  I built up some of the locally made 2 Stroke mower engines and had one going from 3.8 Hp up to just under 12. The things screamed. Thought long grass would never be a problem again but wasn't as clever as I thought.  When you pushed the mower over this real long stuff, it tended to lay down, the mower went over just mainly taking the top off and then stood up or just layed there much the same length.  What I should have down was cut the front lip out the mower so the blade was the first point of contact with the grass.

On the stuff that was up to a foot and thick, the thing was a weapon. Just ripped through it and was a great time saver.  A mate later got a mowing run and rang me one day and asked if I could bring the " terminator" out to a job he was doing. He and his offsider had been at it 2 hours and hadn't got far.
I had the whole thing done in under 30 min. Only problem was putting out the occasional fire from the literally flame Belching exhaust  but it sure got through it where the industrial  Honda's wouldn't.
He got me to build him one after that and put it to good use.

There was an old slasher mower in the mower shop scrap bin a few weeks ago that I was so tempted to bring home but there is nothing overgrown here ( other than the garden) to use it on and I'm going to keep it that way. 
I always wanted one of these slasher Mowers. They are about a 3ft Cut and are belt driven and geared down for more torque.  I never had one because they were expensive at the time even used because everyone wanted one and they did a great job. With one of my Hotted up engines on the thing, they would be unstoppable.

I'll drop in to the industrial place this afternoon on the way home from the hospital and order the pulley I need. See if they have the weirdo size for the Nut I need for the screw thread shaft engine or i'll have to get the 3/4" Pulley bored to 20MM for the other diesel with the normal Key shaft. Wonder If I could just drill it straight with a drill bit? Don't have a press unfortunately.  Once I get a bench built I think that will be one of the first additions.

I was looking at walking tractor Vids last night and I REALLY like the look and sound of the asian ones with the Horizontal Cylinder engines.  All I should really have to do is make up a mounting plate for the one I have  but they are pretty long so might overhang and upset the balance of the thing.
I'll take my 3 Phase generator apart this afternoon and do some measurements.
Doesn't matter what Diesel conversion I do as long as it IS Diesel.

Sure wish I could find some more of those horizontal Cylinder engines. I love the things!

Spoke to the Mrs This morning Bob, she has been up, had breakfast and the Doc has been round and is happy with her. Should be home tomorrow. I'm going in to see her shortly so I'll ask her if she will prefer me in the nurses or Chippendale outfit.  Pretty sure that will get me banished to the shed, maybe permanently but all good.

This hospital business does NOT agree with her. when she told me she would probably be home tomorrow, I said how glad I was to hear that and everything had gone well. I said it would be good if she could come home tomorrow because there was some washing to be done.
She was very rude to me and told me to stick the washing up my  ask your mother for sixpence! 

Don't know whats come over her!   :-[

Good point about going shopping in the Nurses Uniform.  I don't think it's so much wearing the nurses Uniform while shopping but WHERE i wear it shopping.
Out here I'd probably get bashed in the car park before I made it into the supermarket. If I wore it round the inner city Suburbs, I'd probably get people of indeterminable gender coming up propositioning me and giving me gifts and wads of cash to go home with them.

Definitely be prefer to be bashed by some normal guys standing up for decency and keeping perverts out of the area.
Least my fundamental orifice would not be in danger.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 24, 2018, 09:48:56 AM
Well Glort, here I was thinking that your primary proclivity was for diesel engines running on waste vegetable oil. Turns out you`ve taken to hanging out in seedy places dressed in womens clothing, while your Wife is in hospital.( I`m a lumberjack and I`m OK) Why am I not surprised? While the cat`s away the mice will play. Shame on you, you`ve been a bar-bar sheep and you mutton do it again! (oops that`ll be the Welsh in me coming out)

Don`t understand how someone with such a fine sense of humor can have such problems with depression but then again I never expected it to happen to me either.

Very glad to hear your Wife has come through her hospital experience OK. I remember going to visit my 70 year old mother in law after she had cataract surgery, her husband asked her how she was feeling and she told him to F*ck off. The look on his face was priceless. Apparently it`s very common for people who have had anesthetic to behave in unusual ways. I`m sure she will be back to doing the washing before you know it, if not you should offer to do it once you have converted the washing machine to run on diesel. :laugh:

Looking forward to the progress reports on your new yard tamer.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 24, 2018, 11:04:47 AM

Don`t understand how someone with such a fine sense of humor can have such problems with depression but then again I never expected it to happen to me either.

My nephew was telling me the other day he and some mates were sitting round talking about the hardest core person they knew. He said it he told his mates about my life and they all agreed they knew no one that had been through what I had. I spose it all adds up and takes it's toll. My dentist reckons i'm one in a million with what he's put me through and I shrug it off. I tell him real pain is not physical.

Decided I'd just go to the shops in my regular persons clothes and got the milk and supplies and all was satisfyingly uneventful. 

Didn't get much done today, time I get to the hospital, stay with the mrs a few hours and come home the day is pretty much done.  She was really good, Better than I expected and is doing very well. Been out of bed and started Physio which doc's are very pleased with.  She's a tough old boiler my Mrs, has to be to put up with me all these years.  Could have married a decent fella but she picked me which don't say a lot about her smarts but lucky for me she wasn't too cleaver or I'd still be single.

Even though she is doing well SHE wants to stay an extra day to make sure she is well up to coming home and not take any chances.  Guess there won't be much tractor work this week.  Most inconvenient and I told her so today. She is Horribly unsympathetic to my desperate and lonely plight  at home having to fend for myself and what I'm going through!  >:(  I got to say, the peace and quite is nice. She's probably thinking the exact same thing!

I tried to bend the plate for the dozer blade around the tree late this afternoon but straight off ran into a problem. Tree isn't as straight as it looks and was curving the plate length ways as it pulled in the longer angle first.  I could see straight off that was going to actually put a strength fold line in it so I abandoned that idea.  Went looking for a big bit of pipe I knew I didn't have or a substitute.  Found one in the form of a 45 Kg gas bottle.  For the American's watching, a 45 Kg gas bottle is in your antiquated measurements is equal to  ... ahhh, 45 Kg!   :laugh:

Got a bunch of ratchet straps and put them round progressively tightening back and forth.  Got the thing to nearly perfectly wrap the gas bottle.  less than 2.5 Cm  raised at the ends.  I'm sure there will be an amount of spring back  but now I have the thing basically curved I can take the bottle out, pull it down with the straps again and maybe tack the ends onto some bar and maybe put some box ends on the thing to hold it in shape or fold it a bit and put the linkages and reo on it. I left it torqued up on the straps tonight in the hope maybe having it under tension a while will help it hold the shape and pounded on it a bit with a heavy hammer to try and help shape it as well. I didn't notice much change in the strap tension but then again, 90% of it is flush against the gas bottle.

I didn't order the other pulley, I want to wait and mock up the horizontal Diesel first.  If I can make that fit, that's the ideal engine for the job.  I can always take it off again once all the real work is done and put one of the other engines on for lighter work after that. I'll try and take some more pics with the different engines tomorrow when I come home.

I like the converted washing machine idea a LOT Bob. Seen Vids of those old Matags that had the little 2 stroke engines on them.
I used to get called  Tim the tool man all the time with friends because I was always hotting things up.  Even did the Mrs Dustbuster with a model plane battery pack.  That thing would suck the carpet clean off the floor!
I could do a diesel washing machine that spun the clothes so fast they would be dry enough to put away straight off.  If they were still a little damp, I could just keep spinning them with the Exhaust ducted into the machine bowl to provide heat for Drying. 
That could really catch on I reckon. Who wouldn't want their clothes to have the smell of warm Doughnuts from the veg oil as fuel??

Lot of market Potential there....  Could have different fuels for Different aroma's.  Use lard for that meaty smell for Butchers and Chefs. Kiwis would no doubt trip over themselves to be reminded of their best Friends by using mutton fat.  Oil from Chinese restaurants  for those that like the smell of fried rice or want to tell their friends they just got back from a holiday in the Mysterious Orient.  The Chinese oil Could also be popular with medical professionals treating people with anorexia and bulimia. They could have a meal and an hour later they would be hungry again. They would put on weight in no time.  Run the washer on Jet -A1 for the aircraft smell, sure to be a hit with pilots and ground crew that are wanting to impress even when they don't have their uniform on and want to pick up women.  And.... Could use good old diesel for truck drivers .  The list goes on... Rose oil for florists and women in general, Coconut oil for people in the fruit and veg industry or those that also wanted to go to the solarium but tell all their friends they had been on a tropical holiday.  Corn oil for farmers and engine oil for mechanics.

What Fair Dinkum Aussie wouldn't want to smell like gum trees from Eucalyptus oil?  Be big in winter for those with colds as well!
Baby oil would be popular with mothers who want to give their young ones that that " Fresh out the womb" aroma and hide the stench when their Nappie needed Changing.

To show what a progressive and " Inclusive " thinking guy I am, will even be able to offer Tranny fluid from cars as fuel for those weird inner city types of questionable gender we were talking about earlier.

I'm going to be rich!   :laugh:
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 25, 2018, 08:28:28 AM

Nothing at all done today.
Just took pic of the still " Forming " blade on the gas bottle.  Don't think the overnight wrap did much, straps were still Piano string tight today.
Leave it till tomorrow or when ever. can't hurt if it don't help.


Had to grab the pics in between pelting the ball round the yard for the pup. She's not getting enough play time and misses her mother too.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 25, 2018, 09:40:44 AM
More dog pics please, what a cute hound. Got offered a puppy today, it`s a cross between a white Alsatian and a Dalmatian and only six weeks old. If you can imagine a white Alsatian with Dalmatian spots you`ll get the general idea of how cute it is. I can have it for nothing but will have to register it, vaccinate it and have it micro chipped, about a thousand bucks. Not sure I can afford that right now but the missus will probably talk me round.

With regards to your steel bending experiment, what you need is heat or a much bigger hammer. ;D
Don`t recommend heating it while attached to the propane cylinder!

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 25, 2018, 10:21:47 AM
Don`t recommend heating it while attached to the propane cylinder!

No, I thought better of heating it while wrapped round the gas bottle.  the thought did occur but then I thought, no, that could be dangerous.
I might melt my ratchet straps doing that!  Good Job I have the smarts to think these things through!  :laugh:

I was thinking today about the Crane.
If I put a section of pipe under the legs and then put the steel under that, Put some chains round the steel and lifted the crane, Could bend it round as well and apply some heat.  Just have to be careful not to kink or fold it.
I'll work something out!

Would getting a Pup " set up" Cost that much Bob? I thought it would be about $600.  Guess it varys on the council area and the vets too.

Our  Pup is a very lovely Dog.  2nd border Collie we have had and so much like the first.  before them we always had Shepperds and Rotty's which were also very good dogs despite the fear so many people have with them.  had them all the time the kids grew up and never did we have one single problem. Our last Rottie, Angel, was by nature as she was name.   A big rottie at that going over 50KG well and truly but her nature was as gentle and sweet as could be.  Even the cat had no problem with her being around her kittens and she tried to mother them from the start.

I used to take her to school with me to pick up the kids.  there was a park across the road from the school where a bunch of us Muthers waited for the kids and let them play before going home.  Angel was in her element with them all and I think taught a lot of those kids not to be scared of dogs. there were a fair few Asian kinds ( and moreso parents) that were terrified of dogs but she won them all ( the kids at least) over and they came to love rather than fear her.

This one, Jessie, just wants to play ball 24/7.  I am sure despite all the dangerous things I do, she will be the death of me.  Every time I move after 30 sec doing something, I step on a ball. How I haven't twisted an ankle or cracked my skull yet I don't know but it HAS to happen one day.  If I am doing something and stay still for more than about 5 Minutes, there will be no less than 4 balls around me.  Usually about 6, the extras I haven't seen in a while.
Come to think of it, I am sure her favorite balls are still under the water tanks. Job for the crane to lift and get out for her.

A priority when we came here was to get fences built.  Haven't thought of it since about week 2 of being here. She never goes outside the property.
We normally lock her in the house but several times we have forgot to close a door and been out all day and she hasn't moved off the lounge all day.

Our youngest cat adores her.  Comes in meowing and when Jess comes out he goes running up to her and rubbing himself all over and rolling round purring his head off.  Never seen a cat so affectionate especially to a dog.  None of the others are the least bit worried by her either.  If she is asleep they will cuddle up or simply walk on her to get where they want and if they are on the bed and she comes bounding up and lies on them, they only move to avoid suffocation but not a Cm further away.

Still makes me laugh when Strangers come and are amazed to see the cats and the dog together.  Had their pics taken by a couple of different delivery guys that can't believe they get on so well and the cats love up to a dog.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: Johndoh on July 25, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Very nice dog Glort I love collies

This is Sally my mad stupid loyal fun gentle kind old Collie
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 25, 2018, 11:13:30 AM

What a face she has.  Like she has a human soul and looking into yours.  Beautiful!

I always think that animals are so much more smarter and knowing than humans. I'd love to be able to know what my Dogs and Cats are thinking. Sometimes you can tell and others you just look into their eyes and wonder what they would say if they could.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 25, 2018, 11:56:24 AM
I love dogs, I prefer them to people, they are non judgmental and if you look after them they will stand by you through thick and thin.
In London we had George, who had his own web site, He was the pub dog at the Angel in Highgate and then at the Hen & Chickens on Highbury corner, Islington. We had a theater bar there and had live music most nights of the week. I have several live rhythm and blues recordings where you can hear him singing backing vocals. Had to have him euthanasia at 17 years old due to prostate cancer, broke our hearts. That said he had a great life and even got to roger Stella Rimington`s dog ( Stella was the head of the UK secret service at the time)

After that I used to do dog sitting for a while and we had a lot of dogs, up to ten a day. Used to put them all in the back of a VW Golf and take them to the park twice a day. Had some interesting conversations with local law enforcement about how to secure dogs in the back of a car, needless to say when they realized they were outnumbered 10 to 1 they all f*cked off.

We now have Jed who we saved from a local farmer. Poor little bugger was thin as after being chained up for two years before we found him. He now sleeps on our bed and guards our chickens during the day. A more spoiled and dysfunctional friend would be hard to find.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: mike90045 on July 25, 2018, 05:42:18 PM
I think you need a smaller mandrel to form that steel around, it's going to spring back when straps come off.  Not sure about a good way to curl the ends.  Maybe a slot carved in an axle, and stick the edge in there, and start to wrap (like a key on a sardine can)
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: Johndoh on July 25, 2018, 09:16:44 PM
Sardine cans here have a ring pull opening depriving me of an instant gasket tube roller

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: dieselspanner on July 26, 2018, 07:34:14 AM
We get them fresh from Spain, no health and safety issues with the sharp edges...........

Cheers Stef 
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: EdDee on July 26, 2018, 09:32:31 AM
Hey Glort...

I have made similar blades in the past, here's how I did it....

Materials required:

Steel section, DOUBLE the height of the blade required, cut to correct length.
2x channel iron, heavy section, at blade length
2x chain blocks
2x chains

Tack weld the channels down the long edges of the plate to bend
Hook the chain blocks to a suitable point and then to the chain, wrapping one turn of the chain around the channels/plate, then the chains to another suitable point.
Pull the chain blocks evenly, the channel stops the edges from bending, and keep going until a suitable parabolic shape is formed. (Note: the channels are on the outside edges of the bend.)
Once the initial bend has formed, remove the chain wrap and link the chains/blocks directly to the channels, much less pull is required as the curve increases...

When you have the correct curve on the blade after releasing the tension, section the parabola down its length, you then have a blade plus a spare.

Remember, a dozer blade is not a plain section of a circle in shape, it is somewhat parabolic to lift the ground to the center of the blade to transport it... The more parabolic and "flatter" at the base, the more it can shear the ground and lift for any single pass.

On the other hand, if you want a blade that can be used for levelling, lean more towards a circular section, it will not lift and carry as much ground....

Just my .00c worth....

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 26, 2018, 11:42:39 AM

Hey Ed,

Thanks for that! Very useful info. I had something similar in my head but not really clear on how to go about it. That clarifies a lot thank you.
I have everything bar the 2nd Chainblock but I'm sure I can improvise or borrow something.

I will keep the blade straight as leveling will be the main thing and I won't need to cut into the ground rather just scrape off the top. If I can only doze a limited amount, which I expected, that will be OK.  I have the time to make multiple passes.  that' said I was also thinking about something to increase blade height and capacity even in the form of a section of plastic barrel bolted on the top. A lot of what I want to move and level is very loose and light material like bark Chip that the previous owner must have bought in here by the semi load.  Was looking at a section of wire mesh the other day I have up the back as a scarifier as well which would be handy for leveling. that could go behind the Ride on once the 2 wheel tractor was done.

Brother in law round the corner and I also want to aerate and top dress our lawns this spring so the dozer  blade and the scarifier set up would be very useful.  Still trying to work out a practical way to make a lawn aerator and what I could use as spikes or corers that wouldn't cost a fortune or require a days cutting and grinding.  Don't know if spikes are ok or really needs coring. More research required!

 I was thinking to get some flat bar and grind an edge onto it and attach that to the bottom of the blade as both a cutting, wear and strengthening edge.

I can see a practical use for an oil burning blast furnace in making some rippers and a Knife for Cutting roots.  To do a good job round here on all the roots,  I think I'm going to have to find myself a D9 to do an engine Substitution on.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: mike90045 on July 27, 2018, 05:55:40 AM
Simple spikes, over time, will compact the dirt. 
The pro units use a hollow tube with a spring to eject the core, and are not suited to lawns with rock or gravel in the top 6"
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 27, 2018, 08:13:55 AM

That's pretty much what I saw in my mind.

The spikes would make space by pressing the surrounding soil to make the gap.  A core would remove the soil to make the space for the air, water and fertiliser to get into. 

I think this will be a hire Job. Corerers  are pretty exy to hire but would not be cheap or quick to build either. 
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 27, 2018, 09:50:18 AM

The inmate was finally released into my care just after lunch today and seems to be doing well.
Looks good in the face although a little pale but her blood pressure has been Low. I reassured the doc that would not be a problem once she got back home with me and it would rise quickly and maintain a good level in very short order as normal.  I said High blood pressure would be the thing we have to watch but I would do my best not to do anything raise it.  Like breathing.

As there is an industrial place just round the corner from the hospital, I popped in before I collected the invalid and grabbed an 8 Hp petrol engine.
yes, more blasphemy I know and my sould will burn in hell but I have been growing impatient to get the Tractor going and thought that before I start fabrifking around with things and spending money on proper taper lock pulleys and belts, I'd try and work out if the rest of the thing is up to speed.  I have a bunch of other gear with these same engines so if the tractor is buggered,  I'll still have a spare engine for  the chipper, pressue washer, pump, petrol genny and yard vac.  And Probably something else in the garden care section I have forgotten.


Using my collected tinkering genius on par with the great engineers of the World like Isambard Kingdom Brunell, our own Ed Dee and BruceM,  I managed to secure the engine to the frame with the 4 Mounting bolts. Didn't even shed a drop of blood due to the proficiency of hacking skills!

First slight problem is the original engine is a side valve so the cylinder is straight up and down. The new one is OHV so cocked off to the side so takes up a bit more room.  The engine is at the far limit of the mounting slots which meant the belt was tighter. Fortunately I have a pulley 1/2 Smaller that fits BUT of course it's missing the grub screw and a wodruff key.  Back to the other industrial place tomorrow to see if they have these or another 2.5" pulley.
Keen to get the garden done before the weather starts getting hot again and getting the diesel in place may take some part sourcing.


The engine fitted up OK  but there is a slight interference with the Muffler on the belt.   I'll modify this one with a gentle persuader seeing it's impossible to make the thing any worse than it is.  When you look at the angle of the exhaust and where the belt runs, it's not a great position for it really given a lot of these engines would be driving belt setups.  I wonder what the Diesel exhausts are like? I have already noticed they come out the head straight into a flat surface as the pipe turns sharply.  Might make a " Performance"  ( has some decent flow and not designed like it's MEANT to kill power) when I put one on the tractor.  Probably should go straight up in the air with a ran flapper on it for that authentic look.  Have to see if I can find a small Diameter hot dog type Muffler to put in the center as well.


What a piece of terrible crap that muffler is!
 I removed the heat Shield to find the thing is just a pipe going into a chamber that is pressed with wrinkles in it  with a diverter cover internally over the pipe to disperse the gasses in the chamber. Seems to have little clearance to the pipe end as well so probably a horrible restriction there as well.
Surely it could not cost that much more to  design and make a decent muffler that quitened the racket and had a less terrible and power robbing, consumption increasing flow rate.  It's a wonder it does any Silencing at all!

I think I'll look at making up some new exhausts for the other engines I have.  Makes me wonder how they rate the power of these engines. With a crappy muffler like that, or with something that has some decent flow to it.  Can only imagine what abomination the inlet is.  No Wonder the guys on the net playing with go karts can get 20 Hp out the things reliably . Decent exhaust would be worth 2-4 Hp alone!

Also took off the dozer plate from the gas tank after 3 Days.  Held it's shape better than I expected.  I'm thinking maybe rather than more curve, it's needs a wide piece to extend straight from the bottom edge. Might be better to fold it as per Ed's suggested method. I'll see if I can look up blade profiles to get an idea of what might be most effective.


Have to make some mountings up for the thing as well now. Don't know if it will be OK fixed or I should Incorporate something to allow it to be Pinned at different angles. I'll maybe  look at adding weight to the blade so it does bite and the tyres grip.
While I'm at the engineering shop,  I'll see if they have any B series belts. I measured today with a 4" pulley rather than the original 3 and the belt should be pretty good at 1000mm exactly. The clutch mechanism also allows for some leeway being just a tension devise.

Put air in the tyres as well and the thing rolls amazingly free now. I'll try to get the wheels off and reverse them to give a wider spread. Don't have any narrow work in mind for the time being so the extra track width won't hurt.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 28, 2018, 10:01:34 AM

Well not yet in diesel form but at least in Devils fuel self propelled power!

industrial place was closed today, should have thought of that BUT  the mower shop whom do a lot of commercial and small farm / Ag type gear was open so I went for a drive.  Very nice and helpful bloke had everything I needed. When I told him it was for a DIY conversion, he seemed excited and went to lengths to tell me they can get whatever pulleys, belts, couplings and whatever else I need.  their prices seem pretty reasonable as well so I'll give them a go.  they are close and the service there is always good.

Got the shaft key and the grub screw for the Pulley I had, Put them in and carefuly and then had to modify the crappy Muffler.  The discharge was right on where all the cables come down from the handlebars and are organised on the frame. that wasn't going to do.  Welded a plate over the original outlet and bored a hole on the top of the thing at the opposite end to the inlet with a step Drill.
Panel beat the muffler corner to gain some clearance to the drive belt. Knocking the thing in was disturbingly easy. I think 3 layers of aluminium foil would have had more structural strength.

 Put OIL in the engine before the fuel to avoid mistakes of haste and excitement.  Threw a bit of 2-stroke in the fuel to give it a little break in lube . Can't hurt if it don't help and makes me feel better anyway.
Fired her up and engine sat there purring.  Belt is still a fraction tight and wants to drive the pulley a little even with the clutch Disengaged. I'd made sure I found where neutral was on the thing anyway. This works much the same as my other plough so had a bit of a heads up with that.
The reduction is so much in the lower gears I could probably plough a field although very slowly just spinning the drive pulley with my finger.

Put in gear, pushed the clutch and off we went in a very sedate manner.  Tried the hand Clutches for spinning the thing on the opposite wheel, worked perfect.  1st gear in low range would probably pull a house off it's foundation if the thing could hook up the traction.  5th gear in high is easily enough to have you jogging behind the thing to keep up at low-moderate engine revs. Nearly pulled me off my feet when I engaged it and as surprised by the turn of speed from a just over idle running engine.  High range is still going going to be perfect for pulling a trailer round the place.

I like this little toy!

I was so impressed with it the thought crossed my mind to leave the thing with the engine it now has. 

The ripper blade was set up in the wrong direction unless you wanted to push not pull it which I didn't so I put the thing on the drop saw and cut it in 2 from the coupling. I also noticed it was way too high so found a bit of lightweight 1/2 steel  strip and cut a length and welded about 300 mm onto the cut ends and extended the reach about 200MM. Perfect!

took the thing for a test plough would the garden bed and it ripped up soil, grass and 20mm tree roots without a 2nd thought.  Clearly traction will be the limiting factor here. The motor does not even load up when the wheels are excavating the dirt beneath them. I put 20 PSI in the tyres yesterday. I think that's a little high but I also thing lower the pressures won't do much for the grip.  More weight I think is sorely needed..... or a pair of Idler wheels and a set of runner Tracks.  With the ability to disengage each wheel, it would be a highly practical conversion.  May as well just put steering wheels in the front and make the thing a Half track  then.  Hmmm, that would be freaking Cool!

Next thing I think will be to modify the rear hitch arrangement.  Currently it's a 100mm C section  with a hole for a pin.  I'm thinking get a bent tow bar from the yard, cut off the hitch section and weld that to the tractor and then I can just use 50mm thickwall  Square  tube  and pin that.  Will give more rigidity for a trailer, I can have it vertical so I can have height adjustment for implements and I can also have offset attachments like a blade to the side for Cutting garden/ lawn edges.

The tools/ attachment are definitely going to be the key to this things versatility. there would be a LOT that they can do.
Last night I saw on the net where someone had made a stump Grinder attachment for one of these things and another had fitted  a large saw blade for Cutting large Logs on the ground.  I love this idea as it would enable one to put a lot more power into cutting than even a large chainsaw.
The thing has a power takoff on the gearbox but where it is positioned, I suspect that is just a continuation of the gearbox input shaft from the engine.
That's OK, Might look at putting an alternator there so I have a mobile high power battery charger and power supply.  I wanted to fit a light bar anyway.... just for shits and giggles.

Tomorrow I'm going to Cut some large angle I have to a V point and set that up as a wedge type Plough with ripping the grass plants out the front garden. Just not sure wether pushing the thing like a dozer blade or pulling it like a ripper would be better? Getting the machine over the vegetation may try to lift it and reduce traction if it is pulling.  I think pushing may allow me to leverage the machine down between the plant if the machine loses traction and force it down harder while prising the plant out at the same time.

 Think I'll try it that way and see how I go.

The diesel would give the thing some benefit by weight I think.  I'll also try to work out if the wheels have tubes and if so I'll fill the tyres with water for more traction.

I'm all of $110 into this atm and it's a good runner. Only Paid $56 for the diesel but I will need maybe $100 worth of pulleys and belts for hat so add 50% cost to what it is now. 

Still the bargain of the century!   :laugh:
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: dax021 on July 28, 2018, 04:00:01 PM
Would be nice to see some pictures of it operating, maybe a short video?
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 28, 2018, 11:29:32 PM

Yeah I was planning to do that today.  Would have done it yesterday but Visitors came to see the invalid and stayed till almost dark so was too late.
I want to make a quick trip to the scrap metal Bin to see what useful treasure has been deposited this week that I can use to make up some more attachments.  I'm thinking to ring the scrap metal place and see what they are Charging to buy lead so I can look at melting up some wheel weights.
I think that will be a lot easier than trying to do something out of steel and obviously a lot more effective as well.

That said, If I can find some old bar bell weights, that would be ideal.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 29, 2018, 01:15:25 PM

Got some more work in on the psuedo Tractor today.

Pulled the wheels off and reversed them to give about another 10 cm of track. Don't know if it will do anything or not but it looks better.
Went to the scrap Bin and found a very convenient bit of Sq tube that fits in the back higch near perfect. I can cut sections and drill it to attach serious Implements I want to make up. 
I also found a very scary looking bit of semi Circular shaped plate that will be perfect for a Root Knife. Sharpen the edges of that up and it will go though some of the many spawns that infect my garden from the very tall weeds with branches which will soon be gone when I take an excavator to them.

I also got a section of large, galvanised Angle I want to cut a point in and use that as a small plough tool.  I'll have to wait till I get the bits for my plasma cutter because It will take a whole blade on the cutoff saw. 
I made up a frame for a small plough blade to see how that works.  I think that is going to be a learning curve to use that. I gave it a try with the blade just tacked on and as I suspected, with the blade angled the forces want to lift the wheels and reduce traction.  Might have to try having the blade flat..... now that I went to all the trouble of making an angles bracket to mount it.  Ah well, Live and learn.

The engine got unbolted and pushed as far back towards the gearbox as Possible. Even with the slightest drag on the belt, the gearing is so low the thing wants to keep moving.  Thing really needs some sort of brake on it.

I did get nephew to do a vid of me giving the front garden a bit of a plough but suffice to say Movie production and camera operator are not going to be his calling so I'll see if Mrs is up to holding the camera tomorrow and get her to do one.
The single tine Ripper worked really well but the wheels loose traction on the very loose ground easily. Wheel weights to get the thing to bite are going to be essential. Probably wont do a lot of good on the hard ground here till it rains at least.

I Did go down the driveway and ripped up some agapanthus and decorative grass clumps but it did struggle for traction.  Maybe I should sit on the thing and get Mrs to steer. Maybe put a seat for her on the top and use her as ballast?
The diesel will definitely be an advantage in it's more substantial bulk which is about twice that of the petrol engine.


the ripper I extended can be seen at the back of the machine. This is where most of the attachments will go.
Blade will be useful in cleaning up and leveling that bit of garden up.


This is the bit I ripped where the lines can bee seen.  Don't look like much but there were a lot of roots in that which would have stopped anything larger. Still one big one I'll have to get the recip saw on. From there I'll Loosen it all up. I'd like to do a decorative veggie garden there but I don't like my chances. It's very dry there and as soon as the frost goes the heat will come and  getting on for spring, probably have flocks of birds on the search for food as well.

Tomorrow I'll see how I go with the little scraper blade, a larger plough and some wheel weights.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: BruceM on July 29, 2018, 08:44:48 PM
Nice 2 wheel tractor, Glort.  All tractors benefit from wheel weights for pulling power but I wonder how the heck you can get them on this little beast? 

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 30, 2018, 12:42:08 AM

I wondered too Bruce but looking at the wheels yesterday, they simply pin onto the octagonal axle.
Round the wheel there are about 6-8 Little bolts that go through the rim. Their Function seems to be nothing at all.... other than maybe holding weights on.
 I was also thinking it shouldn't be hard to put barbell weights inside the wheel on the axles if the hole in the weights is large enough. 

I reckon make up a mold for some lead, maybe just a bit of metal strip overlapped to the right Diameter and set in sand and notch the resulting Donut for the valve stem and you could screw the weight in place  through the back of the wheel.
There are weights for these things and those like them but I can't find any here in Oz. Plenty for sale in your part of the world though.  I think these tractors are popular everywhere bar here.

I'll have to see how much they charge for scrap lead /Kg.  From memory it's not at all cheap.
Alternately, Gumtree, Gym equipment for free.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: BruceM on July 30, 2018, 02:32:17 AM
That would be sweet if you could actually make custom lead wheel weights.  50lbs per wheel would be useful.  Melting metals is your forte, I know.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 30, 2018, 03:41:57 AM

I was wondering how much I'd Need.  I was kinda thinking double that but just a wild Guess. Thing will be a beast to man handle once it gets that much extra lard on board.  Thing would gain nearly another 25 Kg when I put the Diesel on it which I am feeling more motivated to do now.
I'll see if I can find an online calculator to see if I can work out the weight of lead and steel at certain thicknesses at a 10 Diameter which is about the inner wheel size.  Melting ( or casting to be precise) steel or cast iron is not something I have done or have a real yearning to.
Lead and ally is childs play and copper is where it starts getting half serious.

I don't know what it is atm but I feel like I have been hit by a truck. I was good the other week but this last week, I'm buggered. Was wondering if it was sympathy pains for the Mrs. She keeps telling me I look worse than she feels.
Probably nothing more than diabetes acting up again.
Time to go back to the Doc for a butt kicking and motivation injection.  One of the few medicos I trust and greatly respect.
Too much to do to keep feeling exhausted by the time the first coffee of the day is finished.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: dieselspanner on July 30, 2018, 08:50:15 AM
Rough rule of thumb for density......

Concrete = 2.5 tonnes per m
Steel = 8 tonnes per m
Lead = 11 tonnes per m

Cheers Stef
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 30, 2018, 01:05:16 PM

Being mathematically and everything else challenged.....

The wheel is 17 cm in diameter.  How thick would lead and steel have to be at 25Kg?
I figure 14 Cm thick would give a tad over 26 KG in lead and 20 Cm of steel would give 27 odd Kg.

What say the intelligent and mathematically inclined?

The other thing I was thinking after looking at YT Vids is bigger wheels and tyres would probably help.
I notice for the tractors of this type that plough, they tend to have larger wheels than fitted on my little toy.  Some of them look like full size tractor tyres!  I was wondering about taking a pair of centers from the extra tillers I have and  mounting some regular car steel rims onto them.

Tractor wheels ( and tyres ) seem very exy and all I would need to do would be center the axles with teh square plates on the rims and weld or drill and bolt them on.
  Next thought was what sizes do the tractor tyres come in that would adapt to standard 14, 15, 16 or 17" wheel rims?
 Then I wondered given the ground I want to rip is either very Loose or very freaking hard, Rather than the nice Moist soil I see these things pulling plough through that would have a lot of bite, would the tractor bar tread tyres even make any damn  Difference?  Already seen the bar tyres just tear the loose stuff away and dig themselves into holes and they certainly are not going to get a lot of purchase on the hard clay that is prevelant around here either. 

 Perhaps a couple of  car tyres with a block tread pattern would do just as well through having a bigger contact patch and I could fill them with more water to make them heavier and not need the weights.  Could run them at low pressure, maybe 20 PSI for a bit more contact patch as well.
I have a feeling car tyres would probably have more grip on the clay than the bar tyres that  would have less contact and sit up on top rather than sink in.

My infertile little brain then wondered how much I might be able to pick up a set of snow chains for to put around said tyres as I see these are also used  to aid grip on ag equipment but again, that tends to be on soft ground, not the natural concrete I have.

Reckon my little 2 wheel tractor would look very cool  sitting on a set of 245's  but not sure the low profile would be desirable?

Thoughts and suggestions most welcomed!

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: BruceM on July 30, 2018, 04:00:35 PM
Mass of a  cylinder is pi * radius squared * thickness * density.  Lead is 11.36 g/ccm  or steel 7.87 g/ccm.

Your example= 36 kg in lead, 25 kg in iron.

For the water filled wheel- the average car tire is allegedly 11 liters in volume.   If you can get 8 liters of water in there that's 8000 ccm x 1 g/cm3 = just 8 kg each.

My friend with an old Massey tractor found the same thing- the calcium chloride and water filled tires were a PITA and corroded the wheels, the bolt on wheel weights were better.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 30, 2018, 11:42:43 PM
Why bother with tyres at all? Why not use steel wheels with lots of steel triangles welded to the rims. Seen that sort of set up on the bulldozer at the local council landfill dump.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 31, 2018, 12:06:13 AM

I have seen that in Asia they put like Paddle wheels on the things and also Chains with cleats on them.
I know the wheels type you are talking about and have no doubt it would work well.  Making the things sounds a load of work though. I have seen OS you can get little universal track units for all sorts of machinery.  Probably cost a fortune but would give grip like nothing else.

I have a couple of wheels I got to make a trailer so I'll have a look at them today with the hubs for the rotor tines.   Who knows, I might win the lottery and they match up or close to it.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: mike90045 on July 31, 2018, 06:29:20 AM
Just remember your gear ratio will change when you put larger wheels on. (more speed).  Get a good set of running shoes
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 31, 2018, 08:33:03 AM
Double Post
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: mikenash on July 31, 2018, 08:49:09 AM
Glort you don't need wheel-weights or lead rims or steel spike wheels . . . what you need is a bigger tractor.  More is always better
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 31, 2018, 09:01:39 AM
Good thinking Mike, then he`ll need a bigger shed to store it in, which he will fill with engines and other associated detritus. He will then need another shed and so on adifinitum until he needs to move house again. The new property will need to be massive with aircraft hangers all covered in solar panels.  :laugh:

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: mikenash on July 31, 2018, 09:20:54 AM

even has gum trees . . .
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 31, 2018, 09:23:09 AM

Did the wheel conversion Today.  Took the mountings out some spare Tiller axles and Centred them in some wheel Hubs with the aide of a magnetic welding square and a bit of steel.  They run surprisingly true.  I did them inside out because the way the wheel was pressed gave teh flat hub some self centering and they were not quite small though to fit inside on the wheel hub face anyway. Gives the wheels more track and they are 2 position in now instead of at the end.  I will take the tiller tines off all together and bring them in a little more.

Here is another angle with a gratuitous Pup shot for the pet lovers in the audience.  Was surprised she sat still that long in the middle of what she thought was a game of fetch.


I'd like to make up a better front mounting and a bull bar for pushing things. There isn't a lot of Mounting points surprisingly so I'll have to weld on a couple of mounts right back and bring them forward and maybe support with some pieces on the back of the engine mounts.
other thing I want to do is hook up the throttle cable. There is very basic and rudimentary provision for it on the engine but it will be about a 98% Fabrication job.  A very fiddly, cramped pain in the butt fab job that is sure to have the blue words flowing freely.


Gave it a test run and I tried holding the thing back on the grass and it slipped pretty easy. Couldn't tell much difference between that and the bar Tyres.  I did take it on some ploughed dirt and the thing just dragged me along.  For some reason has heaps more bite in that which is what I want. Didn't get to test with the ripper as it's now too short so I have started working on another hitch which I'll make all the tools to suit and have it as ajustable rather than fixed height.


The wheels I had were only 14's but still an improvement on the 9' Fitted. Specs say they are 7" but the tyres on mine say 9 but still an improvement.
Best bit is there is plenty of room for weight.  Might get away with concrete bit If I could find lots of small steel offcuts, punch plugs or Mill balls and put them in as a filler with the concrete, so much better.
Glad I balanced those tyres, wouldn't want them to shake the Tractor on those High speed passes!

As for the gearing, not a problem at all. Thing has 2 " crawler" gears which I tried and they are still incredibly slow.  3rd which I think is the main gear in low range and conveniently opposite reverse, is a perfect walking pace for me with these Tyres so very happy.  5th gear gear will be road speed.  Tried that ( accidentally ) and engaging the clutch a bit sudden at a fast idle has the thing skid the tyres on the grass and nearly pulled me flat on my ugly Dial.
Caught up enough to pull the clutch out  but it was a good run.

I have been looking for a tractor since we Bought the place which is over a year now.  Before they were priced near new, now there is nothing hardly about at all. Saw a couple posted last night in far off places like wherethefukarewe but haven't seen any for ages.  beel looking for a little excavator which I came to think would have been better anad there was none of those either. Went to an auction with a mate bout a month ago as we were going to go halves in one and the prices that rubbish you wouldn't touch went for what ridiculous.  We did miss one that would have been good.
Mate looked at it but passed because it had a badly knocking engine.  I have the same engine in the shed so when he told me I told him to buy it straight off.  Unfortunately was sold, probably to someone else with a running engine of the same type in their shed!

Too late Bob, I already have approval from the council planning officer ( the Mrs) to extend my little bush shed. She wants it half way across the back and for me to run power and water up there and put a fire place in so we can have BBQ's and sit round.  Given the amount of times well need to do that I don't think it will be a problem moving all the machinery out of there. Things like chainsaws and hedge trimmers can stay as wall art.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 31, 2018, 09:44:54 AM
even has gum trees . . .

Nice place.  Must be a million miles from no where to be that cheap for such a nice house and so much land.

 I like this one just down the road about 10 Min from where I am now.

Nearly bought it before this place but there was a bit of backhandedness with the agent and the buyer I reckon. Maybe they bit off more than they could chew as they are trying to get out after a year if that.

I like it here. I wouldn't care about moving house to something nicer but I would stay in the area that's for sure.  Unless I could convince the Mrs to go north to the coast. then I'd be really happy.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: ajaffa1 on July 31, 2018, 10:24:41 AM
Glort, what a tool! (I`m talking about the tool not Glort) All it needs now is some sort of chariot to go behind it and maybe a turbo charger and it`s worthy of a place in a Mad Max movie. You could get rego and the missus could run it around the supermarket as a state of the art invalid carriage.

Please check my post in more panels regarding your wife feeling cold.

Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on July 31, 2018, 12:22:48 PM

I offered the Mrs. the tractor mower ( no cutting deck) to take herself round the yard so she could get out the house and get round the place.
didn't like that Idea.  Then I told her she could take it up the town as a mobility scooter.  I'd put a little bull bar on the front, a light bar, a LOUD horn and take the Muffler off and put exhaust stacks on it.  No one would get in her way.

Funny, she didn't seem real impressed with my generous offer.

The turbo I'll save for the horozontal Diesel.  ALL diesels NEED a turblow.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on August 01, 2018, 01:14:40 PM

Made up a hitch today for a plough/ scraper blade.  Thought I'd make it adjustable so I could allow for whatever wheels I wants to put on the thing.
I thought I was getting a bit carried away with the other one I made which was fixed and now needs Fixing again so I can use it with the taller wheels.

Used some lighter gauge box section which was so much easier to drill through for the hitch pin hole. Been using heavy stuff with is a pain to drill  and cut.  Found a bracket that perfectly fitted the round pipe I wanted to use to hold the implements I have plenty of so could use the same thing for whatever I wanted.  I was worried about a single bracket but thought I'd test it out and see how I went and to stop over engineering everything.

MIG was mucking around so time I finished was nearly dark. Had done nothing with the blade but I decided I just had enough light to see if the thing would grip enough to pull the 2" pipe through the ground before I wasted my time with anything else that would be way too much to drag.
Got on the Dirt and the tractor pulled the pipe through like a champ. Surprisingly deep and with not much loss of traction.

The pipe then started getting cockeyed so I grapped a shifter and tightened up the loose nuts on the bracket, Went again and came loose again and a 3rd time.  Figured something was amiss and i'd look at it tomorrow. Took it back to the shed and the sensor light came on and I saw the problem.
The thin ( regular) walled box section was distorted and stretched to hell. Where the bracket is,  the thing has pulled that side out to a Diamond shape.
I marveled at the amount of force to do that.

So, back to the drawing board tomorrow and back to the thick Box section.
Going to have to find me a good drill sharpener.  Been shown a number of times but drill sharpening is something I have never mastered. Might get it perfect one day then I could sharpen a new drill to a stub and still the thing wouldn't cut Puss.  I'm going to need a big drill to make up these Hitches and I'm going to need to keep it sharp too.  Some of my other good ones are getting pretty tired as well and need a freshen up.

Mate used to give me a heap of drills from where he worked at the aerospace factory. Only ever the 3 sizes they used though. All as new, in never been sharpened. He got buckets of them.  I asked why they went through so many and didn't just sharpen them. He laughed and said 80% of the metal workers there wouldn't even know you could sharpen a drill.  Cheaper apparently to buy a new one than have them standing round trying to sharpen them and failing anyway.

Guess I may not be as useless as I generally feel.

Anyway, I'm satisfied this thing won't be a complete waste of time and with a bit of weight in it, should  have a good chance of doing what I want and some serious Ripping.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on August 08, 2018, 03:34:28 PM

A bit of a round about more work on the Tractor today.

Pulled a lot of flax out the garden the other week and with Daughters lone awaited return tomorrow, mrs wanted it cleaned up for the weekend welcome home Surprise party.  Didn't want to put it all in the back of the ute and have the crap everywhere so I thought it was time to put the project I thought about a while ago and wanted to utilise for the tractor into action.


Grabbed the IBC cage I had up the back, bit of 50mm thickwall sq tube, the hubs I brought home months ago and the wheels.
Welded the hubs to the sq section, welded that to the IBC. Pit of fence post for a drawbar and Wala! Garden trailer.
Worked well, especially to show me what I did wrong and should change.


The wide track I don't mid, adds stability and is as wide as the car the hubs came off. That will give better high speed cornering because I think I read that JD can get up to about 8 Kmh but the tractor would leave that for dead.  I think they can do 20, certainly a hell of a lot faster than I can run after the thing.
Everything else could be better though. 

I should have welded the axle with the wheels up instead of down to lower the trailer.  Probably should make a frame and sit the IBC in it and have a floor  so the thing can carry engines and the like around and the cage can be removeable. Was also thinking of using some heavy round tube I have, Mounting that to the drawbar, adding outriggers at the front and using that to mount my winch Crane style . Might be a bit overkill for what I'd use that for though.   
I loaded the thing up with the plants, climbed up on top and jumped up and down and bet the drawbar. Wasn't a solid piece as I thought, it's actually 2 with a piece of pipe inside to join them which was what bent.  No mind, I'll make up a proper triangle draw bar and extend it so I can put a seat on the thing to drive the tractor from Asian farmer style.

I was also thinking I might grab another set of hubs with Disks and brake calipers and a Master Cylinder and put brakes on the thing.  Tractor has none and if I do tow something heavy on my angled block, Might get interesting. Set of rear hubs with the handbrake  Might be OK  though and I wouldn't need a long lever to put enough pressure on the master Cylinder.

I'll also get a set of mags with low profile tyres for looks.  I was thinking I could get a pair of mudgards and mount them over the wheels and then I thought could put in a set of blinkers and parkers as well.  then I got to thinking, why not just cut off a whole rear end but then I realised I was getting waay over the top and going from something that took 20 min to throw together to something that would be just easier to bring a whole car  down and modify that! Certainly be the fastest  yard trailer around!


Another thing I'll have to do is make up an adaptor  for one of the tractors so the Hitch fittings are the same although maybe the one on the 2 wheel tractor will be OK on the 4 wheeler with a different pin.

Anyway, for a quick job this will be handy till I get some more bits for a better one.
As they say, nothing so permanent as a temporary fix.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: carlb23 on August 09, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
I have a honda frc 800.  beast of a machine runs great and is just a great tiller.
Title: Re: Diesel Conversion Project.
Post by: glort on August 31, 2018, 01:34:13 PM

Finally got round to doing some more with the little tractor today.

Eventually got the tips and electrode for the plasma cutter, Wheel for the cut off saw and the thickwall steel I needed.
With everything I needed and working, I made up a new hitch for the thing that I standardized so I can attach different implements I want to make up.
I made one the other week out of some plentiful box section I have but made the mistake of under estimating the forces this thing generates.
Once round  the round garden edge with the the single, narrow tine Ripper and the thing was bent to all hell.

Luckily had some box the same size in thickwall and made a new hitch which has resisted deforming. This threw my plans out the window to use a much smaller square tube to hold the implements themselves.  Clearly would have bent as soon as any force was applied.

The first thing I made today was a small plough/ Scraper.  About 200mm wide, 100 high on the flat with a 40mm leading edge angled down at 45o.
I have a tube in tube design for the hitch with teh implement support being via 30mm, thickwall sq tube.  Welded a nut to the larger section so the smaller  piece can slide up and down and be locked in place for implement height adjustment.

Finishing as the light was fading, it all went pretty well and I was pleased with what I came up with.  Wanted to sharpen the blade edge but with not a lot of test time to spare, I thought I'd try it as was on the garden bed out the front to see where I went wrong in the engineering and what was going to break.  thankfully, it was all good.... somewhat to my surprise.

I'm quite amazed how much force these little things can generate.  It ripped through the hard soil  pretty well and with the engine only at a fast Idle, the only time the thing slowed was when it lost traction. Engine never seemed to be working or opening the govenor.  Got through the rather long garden bed very quickly. I'll probably use a lower gear on the thing next time so I have more time for better precision.
The thing did struggle with the hard clay area I wanted to rip that is growing weeds just fine. I think this was probably  more to do with not being able to get a bite on the clay with the round edge on the blade than lack of power or traction.  When I sharlen the blade, I think it will do better although it's probably a job for the ripper to break up with a few passes First.

The next implement will  for sure be a knife/ Root cutter.   Garden beds are full of tree roots that have traveled up to 10M.  They are like 3/4" pipes under the soil and I thought I had hooked conduit at first.  I Pulled one up about 4M long and it was the same diameter all the way.  These were the only thing the little Plough could not really handle and nothing other than a small tractor would with that size blade.
I think I'll do something like a wide V shape on it's side and sharpen the thing pretty well so hopefully it will snag and cut these damn roots which are only a 150mm down.

I thing I'll also do a V shaped Plough head for smaller ripping out plants I want to get rid of.  Tried it today and the test was a fail but I think that actually had more to do with the rock hard dry ground than anything.  Plant roots are concreted in and the blade I had couldn't get down into it hard enough and when it did the wheels couldn't get  traction.  When we get the rain we need for about a month non stop and the ground softens, I think may be OK.

I also want to make up a blade for doing the garden bed edges.  I could put another of the engine collection to work  for a rotary type  machine but I'm thinking more like a blade again.  Something wedged  shaped to cut the sod and grass, Push it to one side and leave a smooth border to the grass.
Bee watching YT and think I have a workable design in my head.

Upon scratching out some more splinters from the cranium, I'm thinking this may be a LOT better on the tractor mower.  On the 2 wheel I'm going to have to make an attachment to put the blade at the side. I'm thinking the constant drag will want to skew the thing to that side all the time and I'll be wrestiling to keep it straight and it won't be smooth as I want.  I could use the wheel clutches and maybe drive the thing from the inner wheel only but that will mean 50% loss of tractive effort and  still probably leave a less than smoothly curved edge.

I'll put a bar under the mower and may even be able to hang it from the deck height adjustment levers under there as the thing has no deck to get in the way. If I can do that, I'll use some more of the steel I got today and make a manual Height ajustment.  having 4 wheels, the weight of the mower and my fat backside as well will probably mean the blade tracks a lot better and will give a much better edge.

I'll have to make an extended hitch for the mower but I wanted to do that anyway so I can put a towball on it to move the trailers round and try using that with my other implements.

Now everything is working again, I might look at doing a plate and mounting the diesel engine there.
Just waiting on the 20mm bore Pulley to arrive.

I'll try to take some pics and vids on the weekend to update the progress.