Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: BruceM on October 19, 2017, 02:06:40 AM
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Thanks to 38ac I got connected with another member Robert Leonard, who had some SOM flywheels for sale. Bob did a great job of securing them to a sturdy pallet and getting them loaded on my freight carrier 8 days ago. Today I picked them up at my local helpful Ace Hardware.
They are now on my shop apron ready for some clean up and new paint! They are a bit shocking to a someone only familiar with Rajkot castings; there are no voids, putty, bondo!
I'd like advice on your favorite rust treatment that does not involve Rustoleum type oil based paint. I just can't stand the stink of it. I'm thinking sand and wire brush, naval jelly, then paint. I'm in AZ, USA, so continued rusting is not a big issue, I'm just proud of them so want to pretty them up a bit.
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Those should make for a nice upgrade. They really are nice chunks of iron aren't they. Mine are sitting in the floor and look much like those, just waiting to be stripped and painted.
As far as a coating I settled on a single stage urethane paint. Urethane is pretty stinky and a respirator should be worn but most any decent coating is going to be. Most are brush-able if you don't have spray capabilities. Or, I think Eastwood makes some urethane paints in aerosol form. I have seen a few CS on youtube where the outer rim was left unpainted and clear coated. Looks like a nice detail to showcase the cast iron and makes the serial number and ignition/timing marks easier to read.
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Wow Bruce,
I am happy to see you finally found a pair !
I am sure many of us are anxious to see how they work out for you.
Gary
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Nice wheels. In my case after cleaning, de-greasing, I used an etch primer then sprayed 1K enamel in mid-brunswick green. I don't think the 1K paints are too bad, there's certainly more toxic paints out there. Still I wear long sleeves, goggles and a mask just to be on the safe side!
Samo
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AZ? Any old paint will do - so long as it's mid-Brunswick Green :laugh: and can be applied smoothly (no brushes! unless it's coach paint...) Hell, you'd get away with no paint at all most likely!
I'd use cellulose based paint myself, 'cos I'm old school, and because I don't have a 2-pack setup.
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Thanks for the prep and finish suggestions. Green she shall be. Ade's right- it doesn't take much for our environment here in AZ. I have unfinished angle iron bits on my engine for sensors, pneumatic actuators and such, and an oily rag wipe down occasionally is enough to keep them rust free.
It sure is going to be interesting trying to match these flywheels to match per 38ac's method. Piece of cake when you can readily lift the flywheel by hand, quite a bit more serious with these monsters. I will go slow.
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The easiest way to clean them might be to take them to a local engine rebuilder and have them hot tanked. Nice find.
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Tom, I think you're right- I've seen the before and after photos of hot tanked parts here recently and it's amazing what a good job that does. Alas, I'm so rural that it's not so practical for me. Local shops only have solvent tanks for smaller parts.
I couldn't resist giving the flywheels some attention by hand this morning; a few hours with 80 grit discs on a 5" air palm sander, and a drill- drum sander inside the cutouts, and some pressure washing. They cleaned up very nicely. Myself and my clothes are another matter.
I think I'll going to use Bronco's suggestion and NOT paint the outer rims- until after they are installed. That way I can roll them about - which is the easiest way to move them.
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Bruce..Are they from a Lister 6/1 going on Listeroid? If so I bet it will be minor tuning.
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Hi Dave,
Yes, 6/1 SOM wheels on a 6/1 Listeroid. I will match the balance but agree not likely to be off much.
I've seen the patina look Glort mentions- someone used some stove black and had a great looking show (or working) engine. Vegetable oil, oxidized, makes that coating that works so well on cast iron skillets and griddles. Only soap or detergent ruins it.
Alas, patina on a Rajkot Listeroid engine seems an odd mix, so I painted the wheels Lister green this afternoon when the rain stopped. I'm going to give the engine a bit of a touch up and give my original wood ''temporary test'' base a coat as well. It really has held up nicely but since I've got extra paint I'll doll it up.
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I painted my CS with Lidl's (A German based pan European supermarket chain that sells all sorts of stuff on weekly offers, paint comes up a couple of times a year) spray cans in a sort of Brunswick green.
It comes up like Hammerite Smoothrite, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a a similar composition with a different solvent.
It's around 3 euros a can (I used around 8 on the CS and after 3 years it's still looking good) and when it comes around I buy loads of black and grey for doing odd jobs, brackets and the like.
Cheap, that's me!
Cheers Stef
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Glad everything worked out for them. Be extra careful that your gibb keys are well fitted as the extra "smoothing" forces the heavy 'wheels provide is transmitted through those gibb keys and the friction fit to the shaft that they provide.
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Interesting looking flywheels. I've never actually looked at SOM flywheels. Cool balance methodology. Post more pics!
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One of those du-oh, moments this morning. Flywheels look great, set up my stands for balancing and then noticed- no ground clearance for the wheel bottom. Oops. The SOM flywheels are 25 inches diameter, not the 23 1/2 of my spoke'd wheels. This will require modification of the base- not quite enough clearance for the belt on flywheel and a new 9 inch generator pulley and belt. I'd likely have to change to a single B belt instead of serpentine to get the right diameter generator pulley unless a 9" serpentine pulley is common.
I'll have to ponder it and study the costs for a while, but I may postpone the upgrade to SOM wheels until I'm ready ($) for the propane conversion, which increases engine speed to 824 rpm. I'll need new pulleys and B belts for both generator and air compressor for that. I can manage diesel fuel hauling and transfer now but want to be prepared.
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I didn't overlook the Arrow engines, just fell over when I read the price. They don't come on the used market. I've already done a DES 8/1 CS conversion to propane for my also disabled neighbor's off grid home (making it a 6/1 in terms of power), which is working very well. He also has the dual purpose air compressor/generator. We use air tools and motors on a big 500 gallon air tank instead of electric.
I'm off grid so regular use is the norm, and I just can't tolerate the sound of 3600 rpm engines, or I'd use one for generator and one for air compressor.
I'm having periods of not being able to drive safely from MS acute vertigo and vision issues, among others. So a fuel that's delivered and requires no handling is a big plus might be a big plus for my independence. I use about 5 gallons of diesel fuel a month. I've been reluctant to modify my nicely working diesel setup.
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I run my unmodified listeroid 6/1 as a hybrid using aprox 10% diesel and 90% natural gas with only a needle valve to adjust the natural gas flow and let the governor adjust the diesel. I have it set up so only enough diesel is injected at an no load and enough natural gas at a 1800 watt load to keep the governor from injecting anymore diesel. If the load goes over 1800 watts the governor just injects more diesel. Simple and effective
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Actually, the oilfield engines do show up, they just have a steep price. Here are two near me, that if I had a place to put them, I would have bought one or both.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/hit-and-miss-motor-/262818066319?hash=item3d312d6f8f:g:GB4AAOSwZQRYhAFQ (https://www.ebay.com/itm/hit-and-miss-motor-/262818066319?hash=item3d312d6f8f:g:GB4AAOSwZQRYhAFQ)
and a nice big one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/hit-and-miss-engine-/262875957843?hash=item3d34a0ca53:g:rDwAAOSw32lYpd3p (https://www.ebay.com/itm/hit-and-miss-engine-/262875957843?hash=item3d34a0ca53:g:rDwAAOSw32lYpd3p)
They have been for sale several months here in Texas...
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Carl's NG setup is marvelous- simple, effective. Alas no NG out here in the sticks.
Propane can't be run that way, you're limited to about 25% propane. Carb and regulator for propane run about $220., a bargain compared to an Arrow engine. Other mods are a 1/2" spacer of aluminum under the cylinder to lower compression, hardened valve seats in the head, a black pipe adapter for the spark plug to fit in the injector hole and clamp, and lengthening the shorter pushrod a few inches. Plus hall sensors and circuit to trigger an auto spark module, long reach spark plug, spark module mount, wiring, etc. And an adapter to mount the carb on the intake manifold and a minor mod to the governor arm and new linkage. It is a project- and makes me appreciate Carl's setup.
I'm presently at just 875 watts of PV panels for my 120VDC power system. PV is so cheap now it's shocking. I have to upgrade my PV system to add 5 more 24v panels for my new low EMI inverter design; I'll be adding another 1500 watts so that the well pump (1200 watts) or washing machine (1100 watts) can be used during the day Sunelect.com or Solarblvd.com carry new panels cheap. Locally used panels are a joke- new panels are cheaper. I designed a new seasonal tilt ground mount rack of angle iron that ran about $300 in steel and welding for my new neighbor; I'll use that design instead of my $150 original as it allows one person to do the seasonal tilt. We have wind gusts over 100 mph every spring so I used 1" EMT braces from the top of the 33% cantilevered rack.
Glort, for your electric water heater, I'd suggest going direct DC to the element; use a water heater thermostat to control a solid state relay, or make one with a surplus IGBT module switching the low side. Put your panels in series to get the voltage you need under load. Screw in replacement elements for 240 and 120v at various wattages are common here. You must use dc rated breakers, and properly rated solid state relays- AC rated stuff will melt down the first time you try to turn it off. It might be convenient to isolate one of the elements or add a whole hot water heater (plumbed as pre-heater) to be your solar heater. All that electronic conversion to AC, and batteries are just not needed, and you'll have much better efficiency.
I hurt my left leg last night- one of the flywheels tipped over when going over the concrete lip into the shop at an angle and got me. I was getting too cocky rolling them around. Scrape and monster swelling on my shin bone...no dinner (couldn't stay upright) and not much sleep. Swelling better today, and I can stand for a short while. Living alone is very peaceful but occasionally has it's downsides.
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Take care of yourself Bruce, we selfishly want to read more on your progress!
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Thanks to 38ac I got connected with another member Robert Leonard, who had some SOM flywheels for sale.
Actually these are not a set of SOM flywheels, as one of them is missing the 'B' section Vee belt grooves around the flywheel rim. Otherwise a nice addition to a Lister CS engine that will greatly reduce the cyclic irregularity associated with the spoked flywheels
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Ouch Bruce! I know that pain (I fell off a tail-lift van once and scraped a decent chunk of skin off my shin - still got the scars 10 years later). Keep a close eye on how it's healing - any hint of an infection, get yourself off to the quack smartish. I know a guy who had to have his leg amputated below the knee following a nasty shin injury, it got infected & never healed, just got worse & worse despite medical intervention.
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Good and timely advice, AdeV, thanks.
I was alarmed late yesterday to have my lower leg hurt again nearly as much as the first night. I had been wrapping it in a compression bandage and just trying to limp through my day, meals, laundry and such, setting new blades in my jointer-planer.
So last night I stacked pillows to elevate the thing. Hurts less this morning, swelling down a little. I'm going to have to keep it up a lot more, and take it a lot easier instead of bulling through. Sitting seems to be the worst- so no more computer today. More reading in bed... I've had about 3 lifetimes of that.
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Hi BruceM,
I know this is an old post, but I thought I'd post anyway !
I've recently acquired a Lister CS 12/2 genset.
Last night I managed to get the very heavy, as you'll know, flywheels off the engine.
I'm sure you noticed that the flywheels you have are not the same in that the keyway is opposite to the hole on one & in line with the other !
I'll guess these are therefore from a 12/2 engine as they are the same as mine.
On a 6/1 SOM the holes should be in line with each other & therefore keyed the same.
See pics attached that show my 12/2 & a stock photo of a 6/1.
Cheers,
Jim