Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Things I want to Buy => Topic started by: Blueflame on February 14, 2017, 10:31:09 PM
-
Hello I am wondering if anyone knows where to find the whole rocker arm assembly. the mounting block, shaft and rocker arms and replacement bushings. My rocker arms are quite sloppy on the shafts and the shafts themselves wiggle easily enough even though all nuts and bolts are tight. Engine is a powersolutions 6-1 made in 2005. thank you.
-
We stock ALL parts for the Lister engine series, including clones. gary@dieselgen.com
dieselgman
-
Hey Blueflame one of the leading exporters of lister diesel engine and its spare parts. We can provide you all spare parts of lister diesel engine. You can check this out on www.crosswordagro.com (http://www.crosswordagro.com)
-
I have also investigated and posted queries on the Crossword site... no responses. I am not surprised either. There are at least many dozens (if not hundreds) of such small export companies in India... we have dealt with many of them over the years - I have visited many of them in person as well. Some few actually maintain any sorts of their own stocks (most do NOT), None are actually in control of the manufacturing or quality standards, fewer will do business in anything resembling Western standards. I like the Crossword Agro catalog... but, we already have plenty of experience with some few companies who are actually straightforward about the inner workings in India and don't put on airs about how huge and important their own business is in the grand scheme. We have lost tens of thousands of dollars to unscrupulous players, posers and thieves in that marketplace. They will always demand their payment up front and in many cases provide zero recourse once any significant or difficult problem is revealed. Buyer beware! ;)
dieselgman
-
I recently got my hands on a diesel generator with a Chinese clone of a Yanmar L100 engine. I have had to replace a few parts, eg fan cowling and air filter box. I replaced them with genuine Yanmar parts and they fitted directly with no fettling. It's an electric start engine that I'm currently fantasizing about putting into a motorbike frame. It's light at under 20kgs but only 3k rpm and 10 hp but doable if I could find a gearbox that would work (a budget gearbox) It starts easy enough and the quality is way better than I thought. It had a 6kv alternator thats not working and sadly a replacement is way too dear. I think that if the Chinese made the Listeroids they would be of a reasonable enough quality to make them reliable.
-
There are indeed a few over there that seem to have some sort of western morality as it would pertain to business and honesty of word. I chose to not sort through it when there are known reliable sources right here in the US of A that also provide us with loads of freebie information on this website aka D.E.S., aka Dieselgman, aka Gary. (unpaid advertisement ;D) Others have imported an engine or two and done OK but sadly many have been taken and (rightfully) dont come on here and cry about their losses.
-
I've had good service from Dev Precision. I had to gee them up with a post on here, which I sent them a link to, , they replaced a dodgy injector pump free of charge and with no quibbles, including it in the delivery of my 3rd order ) I was happy to pay the extra postage. Each order was placed on the Sunday night and arrived on the following Friday, as fast as I can get stuff from the UK to France. The protection / power of Paypal is not to be understated! I'm sure there are others with a different tale
On this, as a on any other forum, guys will always try a bit of guerrilla marketing, I say let 'em on, there's enough experienced hands on here to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
Cheers Stef
-
I helped a Guy some years ago that had that motor in a bike frame. He was doing a round the world Trip on veg oil. His first engine was OK and got him a long way but an accident required it be replaced. After that he had a lot of trouble. My conclusion was the new(er) engines had a lower compression and a different injection rate. I also think he held the thing open too much which caused the thing to Coke up through too much unburnt Fuel in the Cylinder. I thought of WI but as he was coking the rings in about 100KM, I couldn't see it being effective in keeping the thing clean. I got him to blend the Oil with Petrol and that certainly helped, doubled the range between rebuilds but was still impractically short. I wanted him to shave the head on the thing and get the compression way up but I think by that time he'd had enough and finished his last part of the journey on Diesel.
The bike didn't have a gearbox, it had a CV type clutch which worked well and gave no problems. They are centrifugal variable size Pulleys that change the gear ratio according to speed and load. Compact and efficient.
The Bike was LOADED with gear and the clutch and engine when it was going seemed to handle it well. No speed Demon but 55 Mph as he was getting on the flat roads was something I thought just from the POV of overcoming the Drag from all the saddle bags and things that were draped over the bike and sticking out.
I have seen some of these engines put in bikes and equipped with the little IHI Turbos which would be a very good Idea I reckon.
If the Chinese could get the Roids as good as their horizontal Diesels, I think they would put India out of business pretty quick. If nothing else, No one from the western world would buy indian engines any more.
Thats very interesting I'd be keen on seeing photographs of it. Being off a generator my engine has a tapered shaft so there would probably be difficulties connecting anything other than a generator alternator to the shaft? But there's always other engines on pumps etc and the Chinese version is cheap enough. I did a little bit of research and those engines come with fixed or variable speeds so again not too difficult and some even have a cut-off solenoid. I believe the American version is 3600 rpm. A Turbo would be the icing on the cake!
Of course there would be other problems one being living in Ireland and getting it made road legal. An engine change in a car here even for a like for like engine means tons of paperwork, expensive main dealer visit to get the engine number, cc etc verified and associated fees. Thats doable tho. I like the idea of an old cruiser plodding along at 50 mph.
And there's my nightmare, electrics! You'd need lights indicators etc How to generate power?
-
On this, as a on any other forum, guys will always try a bit of guerrilla marketing, I say let 'em on, there's enough experienced hands on here to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
Cheers Stef
I agree a bit is OK as it can make one aware of suppliers they would have never known of otherwise.
I welcome it when it's here as several guys that have businesses put in so much time and advise to help others, people would be nuts to go elsewhere.
When people come to forums flogging their wares and then don't answer the inquiry's they do drum up, It makes me wonder.
What shits me to tears though is people that will come along, push a product, throw a hissy fit when questioned or rebuked, before you know it there is some other newb singing the praises of the questionable product, swears they are just a satisfied customer but post on no other subject and then after doing their seagull impersonation of making a lot of noise and shitting on everything, take off and are never heard from or seen again.
Geez I have seen that a lot over the years to the point I can predict it now in a couple of responses.
There are indeed a few over there that seem to have some sort of western mo
-
Tried to post a picture of my engine and cooling system. Been a great machine for me so far.
-
When I read a forum thread like this, and see the responses generated when something like this appears:
Hey Blueflame one of the leading exporters of lister diesel engine and its spare parts. We can provide you all spare parts of lister diesel engine. You can check this out on www.crosswordagro.com (http://www.crosswordagro.com)
You guys crack me up, when you shoot these type of posts down in flames, but yet you still continue to buy parts originating from this part of the world.
If like me you had access to the comprehensive materials test reports produced by ListerPetter, and original Lister CS drawings. You would be able to appreciate that good customer service and honest dealings from Indian suppliers are not the whole story. More importantly it is what is not immediately apparent with Indian cloned Lister CS items, such as: Incorrect material composition, forging flash re-introduced into forging causing hidden defects, incorrect heat treatment, poor surface finish, dimensional errors, etc.
The raw material feed stock for the vast majority of these products is sourced directly from the Alang ship breaking yards located not far from Rajkot. Therefore the micro foundries producing the raw castings and forgings often have limited or non existent material assay capabilities, hence whatever alloying content the finished product has, it would largely be determined by the quality of the scrap steel / cast iron feed stock.
** I do concede that certain Indian sourced Lister CS spares are of an acceptable quality, such as bearings, valves, piston rings, and fuel injection equipment. Which is largely due to these companies having exposure to large Western markets, and who's customers insist upon having robust QC procedure's in place, combined with financial penalty clauses written into contracts when the required quality is not produced.
-
When I read a forum thread like this, and see the responses generated when something like this appears:
Hey Blueflame one of the leading exporters of lister diesel engine and its spare parts. We can provide you all spare parts of lister diesel engine. You can check this out on www.crosswordagro.com (http://www.crosswordagro.com)
You guys crack me up, when you shoot these type of posts down in flames, but yet you still continue to buy parts originating from this part of the world.
If like me you had access to the comprehensive materials test reports produced by ListerPetter, and original Lister CS drawings. You would be able to appreciate that good customer service and honest dealings from Indian suppliers are not the whole story. More importantly it is what is not immediately apparent with Indian cloned Lister CS items, such as: Incorrect material composition, forging flash re-introduced into forging causing hidden defects, incorrect heat treatment, poor surface finish, dimensional errors, etc.
The raw material feed stock for the vast majority of these products is sourced directly from the Alang ship breaking yards located not far from Rajkot. Therefore the micro foundries producing the raw castings and forgings often have limited or non existent material assay capabilities, hence whatever alloying content the finished product has, it would largely be determined by the quality of the scrap steel / cast iron feed stock.
** I do concede that certain Indian sourced Lister CS spares are of an acceptable quality, such as bearings, valves, piston rings, and fuel injection equipment. Which is largely due to these companies having exposure to large Western markets, and who's customers insist upon having robust QC procedure's in place, combined with financial penalty clauses written into contracts when the required quality is not produced.
By the time an original lister part swims across the pond to the US of A, it's very near 10 times the price of a Rajkot "make do"
piece. I'm afraid some of us have to "make do".
Regards, Ron.
Ron.
-
I read somewhere about a guy in Canada I think, that imports Listeroids without an injector that are sold as compressors. I don't know if it's true
-
By the time an original lister part swims across the pond to the US of A, it's very near 10 times the price of a Rajkot "make do"
piece. I'm afraid some of us have to "make do".
Regards, Ron.
That also might assume that the original parts are actually still available... and to a large extent they have been obsolete for several decades now. NLA = no longer available.
dieselgman
-
I read somewhere about a guy in Canada I think, that imports Listeroids without an injector that are sold as compressors. I don't know if it's true
Yes, one can buy listeroid "compressors" engines, and parts from Jim Calder
Jim's website is justliveoffgrid.com
He has most common Listeroid parts in stock.
I am in Canada and have bought parts from Jim many times. He is on the other side of the country, does his best to get things to me quickly.
I have had occasion to need some obscure small parts and specialty parts......Gary at DES is the man.
Cheers,
Hugh
-
Kevin, No offense toward that Crossword Ago fellow was meant on my part. He can post here all he wants as far as I am concerned. And no offense toward you either but I dont think you fully understand the parts picture here in the states.
Quality issues aside- For my dollar there are too many known good sources or Indian parts, both in India and in North America for me to risk sending my money to an unknown recipient in India.
As for the genuine article I have also seen many sad faced recipients of unadulterated junk sent here from the UK under the guise of a good CS type engines and parts. They call me and want me to bale them out of their mess lock stock and barrel and I sadly must turn them away. Not all of of UK transactions are this way course but enough to be very leery of importing from unknown individuals. If there are known good sources that are willing to export I personally would like to have a list of them? Our other choice for genuine parts? Pay Sleeman Hawkin's asking price, then pay through the nose for currency exchange, customs, air freight shipping. The end result is genuine parts sourced through S-H are just plain not in the picture, the cost is not just high, or a little high it is nothing short of INSANE.
The Lister parts situation is a world away different here in the USA than the UK is my bottom line.
-
Continue??
By all means.
That is the essence of the problem though, isn’t it? It’s an inconvenient truth! Someone like that comes on here and gets promptly gets shot down in flames for offering Indian parts, but ultimately the only option for the majority on this forum is to suck it up and to continue to buy these very same Indian sourced parts.
Anyone who has had experience of using genuine OEM Lister spares, and then has to fall back on Indian produced CS parts, will not need an extensive report to know what the vast majority of these parts are really like. The best piece of advice I ever had about using Indian sourced Listeriod CS parts on genuine CS engines was from a conversation I had many years ago with David Harris “only ever use parts that don’t move” i.e. manifolds, water flanges, water jacket side plates, rocker covers, crankcase breather elbow, etc.
To further put it into perspective, the Lister Petter strip report failed nearly 75% of the parts that were examined due to: incorrect material spec, forging defects, casting defects, dimensional errors, geometric errors, poorly machined surface finish, BSW threads forms which did not meet the requirements of British Standard 84, lack of depth of hardness or even a complete lack of hardness. A further 10 % of parts were borderline pass / fail. With the remainder of the components tested proving to be of an acceptable quality.
The defects highlighted above are exactly the type of defects that cannot easily be verified, as the vast majority of customers will not have the ability to carry out the required checks and tests needed to identify these shortfalls, usually the first thing you will know about a sub-standard item is when that new Indian sourced part does not fit, or has worn out in a fraction of the time it took for the original Lister item it replaced to have worn out.
For your benefit Glort, a bit of background information about the precautions necessary when using scrap steel / cast iron for the raw material feed stock to produce steel bar stock / raw cast iron castings.
As you identify the steel used for ships construction needs to be tough and also as a minimum: have a degree of corrosion resistance, be ductile, easy to weld in all positions (to facilitate when sections of a ship’s hull are welded together), and not suffer from low temperature brittle fracture. Apart from the ductility aspect these are not really the properties required for Lister CS engine steel and cast iron parts.
Furthermore as part of the steel making process, these alloying elements are nearly always lost from the molten steel (as they are invariably more volatile than Iron), hence become oxides, and become suspended in the slag. Therefore if the steel is not analysed before it’s poured and the alloying content adjusted accordingly [this is the part of the process that the vast majority of Indian micro foundries do not have the ability to undertake], what you typically end up with is Lister CS crankshafts that should be EN16 (an alloy steel) but end up little better than EN8 (medium carbon steel) as is verified by the LP strip report. The same principle applies for the production of Lister CS cast iron components.
The fact that the Indian version of these engines can and do run in adverse conditions, with little in the way of any maintenance. Clearly demonstrates the integrity of the original design, and just how good the original design was.
I suppose if I did have access to that sort of information. But I don't have access to that Material. You do. What have you done with it? Sold it as I remember. Anything being done in the way of new up to standard parts so we don't need to go to the punjab's?
Yes that is quite correct, I did sell that information. But not before offering it up on here for a whole month for anyone who wanted to pony up the money. No one came forward [some people even suggested it should be made available free of charge!] with an offer that was better than what I already had in place, so for the forum members the opportunity was missed. I didn’t sell it for a telephone figure number, but the people who bought it could clearly see its value because they did not even try and argue down the price, and they are now making good use of it to improve their own indigenous version of the Lister CS (and at the same time reducing their dependence upon Indian sourced parts). Within a few years I hope they will begin to give the Indians a run for their money. Until that time it’s very much business as usual for the Indians, and their Western consumers of Lister CS spares ;-)
-
indigenous version of the Lister CS
So what is the big secret as to whom and where this effort is taking place? We would always be very interested in improving the available parts pool in quality and availability. We would also be willing to invest serious money in this direction.
And... , I echo the "no offense" sentiment regarding Indian suppliers posting... however, they must be able to respond to parts queries and be able to speak intelligently and honestly about the realities of the third-world parts they are dealing in.
dieselgman
-
Kevin, No offense toward that Crossword Ago fellow was meant on my part. He can post here all he wants as far as I am concerned. And no offense toward you either but I dont think you fully understand the parts picture here in the states.
Quality issues aside- For my dollar there are too many known good sources or Indian parts, both in India and in North America for me to risk sending my money to an unknown recipient in India.
As for the genuine article I have also seen many sad faced recipients of unadulterated junk sent here from the UK under the guise of a good CS type engines and parts. They call me and want me to bale them out of there mess lock stock and barrel and I sadly must turn them away. Not all of of UK transactions are this way course but enough to be very leery of importing from unknown individuals. If there are known good sources that are willing to export I personally would like to have a list of them? Our other choice for genuine parts? Pay Sleeman Hawkin's asking price, then pay through the nose for currency exchange, customs, air freight shipping. The end result is genuine parts sourced through S-H are just plain not in the picture, the cost is not just high, or a little high it is nothing short of INSANE.
The Lister parts situation is a world away different here in the USA than the UK is my bottom line.
I exported an Audi 1.9 TDi engine and gearbox plus various other parts ECU, loom turbo etc to Canada a couple of years ago, total cost of shipping (groupage) was €200.00 plus $49.00 fees in Canada. Sleemans have good quality genuine parts but even the postage to Ireland is scary,eg £20.00 P&P for LT1 rings. I use a UK delivery address with a €3.50 delivery charge to my local post office so there are ways around huge postage. For example I could send a 5kg package to the USA for €45.00 Royal Mail would charge £90.00+ for the same thing. If anyone has a Petter engine Jim Perkins is a good guy to deal with he charges what it costs him for postage
-
I believe that another factor in parts decisions is that practically nobody is running these slow speed engines any kind of hours. Ed is running the dickens out of his TM1 'roid but Id have to bet that he is one of very few.The price of fuel , lower priced solar , better battery technology, newer engine technologies such as the excellent Kubota and who knows what else comes into play. Would be interesting to see a survey of how many hours people are putting on their engines. I have a pair of engines that make up my "users" and between the two I dont put 200 hours a year on them in spite of dreaming up uses that would be better served by other motivations.
-
I'm now putting about 400 hours per year on my Listeroid 6/1, 600 if I do more woodworking. I'll do less if my current 120VDC to 240VAC inverter project works out well so that I can run my 1/2hp well pump or washer on the solar system.
Parts quality may be iffy, but I'm very glad there are parts readily available. There just isn't a better slow speed engine choice out there, for a 6-8 HP low speed working engine. My nervous system is just too fried to cope with the sound of 1800/3600 rpm engines.
-
Thank you Gary for the parts that arrived in good shape and exactly what I had pictured and I am amazed to have parts in hand before paying for them. Im happy for the whole listeroid hobby community. This rocker I want to live longer than the original from improved lubrication but unsure how. Thinking grease would be better than what I was doing before, dripping a mixture of eos assembly lube with added graphite.
-
Well over 2400 hours here.
-
Thank you Gary for the parts that arrived in good shape and exactly what I had pictured and I am amazed to have parts in hand before paying for them. Im happy for the whole listeroid hobby community. This rocker I want to live longer than the original from improved lubrication but unsure how. Thinking grease would be better than what I was doing before, dripping a mixture of eos assembly lube with added graphite.
Using the grease cup (that forces lubrication through the hollow rocker shaft and into the bushings) is probably the best system going as long as the operator remembers to periodically give it a push.
dieselgman
-
I thought i would leave it while before responding again, so you could all get your comments in and flame me a bit more ;D
As for the genuine article I have also seen many sad faced recipients of unadulterated junk sent here from the UK under the guise of a good CS type engines and parts. They call me and want me to bale them out of their mess lock stock and barrel and I sadly must turn them away. Not all of of UK transactions are this way course but enough to be very leery of importing from unknown individuals.
Butch,
I totally agree with you, I very recently sold to someone on this forum some genuine Lister CE parts (and we all know what CE engines are like for spares availability) during the course of the email ping pong he relayed a tale of miss fortune, whereby a UK based conman relieved him of $3,000 for a Lister startomatic set. Con men like this are a waste of good skin, and may I suggest to the forum moderator here that a sub forum in the members only section be created, so that these type occurrences can be highlighted so that no one else falls prey to these Oxygen scavengers! The lesson here is carry out due diligence checks before hand, and ultimately until you have established trust, invest no more money than your prepared to walk away from.
Our other choice for genuine parts? Pay Sleeman Hawkin's asking price, then pay through the nose for currency exchange, customs, air freight shipping. The end result is genuine parts sourced through S-H are just plain not in the picture, the cost is not just high, or a little high it is nothing short of INSANE.
But that's how capitalism works and you yourself being from the capital of capitalism, you shouldn't be surprised by the prices Keith Mason charges. He has been involved with LP spares a long time, and knows exactly what the critical spares are for every Lister engine ever made, and therefore what price the market will stand for.
He must be able to sell at those prices, because if you have ever been to his premises, from the size of that operation it is clear he has a lot of overheads to meet. Hence he would not be in business if he was not selling sufficient levels of stock.
Furthermore, and now that the new man living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue has got rid of TTIP, the customs duty will not be reducing in the near future either.
Finally look on the bright side, with BREXIT the £/$ exchange rate has improved significantly in your favor of late ;D
So what is the big secret as to whom and where this effort is taking place?
I reserve the right to keep that information to myself, because although I gave up on the idea of manufacturing these parts myself. I am still keeping my options open at a later date to possibly develop this into an export business in my retirement, and as one capitalist to another, surely you can understand that I would effectively be committing business suicide by divulging who now owns this information, and where they are located. Would you be willing to release onto this forum a list of all of your suppliers, so that those who would be inclined to do so could cut you out of the deal, and go straight to the source of supply?
And... , I echo the "no offense" sentiment regarding Indian suppliers posting... however, they must be able to respond to parts queries and be able to speak intelligently and honestly about the realities of the third-world parts they are dealing in.
But... , You still do not acknowledge that no matter how polite, and helpful your Indian supplier is, the items you ultimately end up with are invariably still coming from the same source and often even the same manufacturer. Hence these parts may be afflicted with all of the usual problems detailed throughout this forum
Do you subject the parts sourced from India to any sort of random QA procedure upon arrival in the USA? If not do you have confidence in your Indian supplier to be able to undertake these activities upon your behalf?
What the Fk would the majority of people here do with it?
Firstly Glort, I don’t feel the need to resort to crudely disguised expletives when replying to your posts, so please extend to me the same courtesy.
You sound annoyed no one here bought the info.
Not at all, I was never expecting any serious interest here for the reasons you identify, it was the wider audience I was interested in (the people who read this forum but who are not members). As I had effectively already sold this information already it was no loss to me what response it garnered on this forum, ultimately it was interesting to see the wider reaction, and also the inquiries and discussions that have since taken place outside of this forum and which are still on-going for other LP information that I have on the later air cooled engines, which also came from the same source.
It seems from your own account, the main thing the Indians have to do is get the metallurgy right. Don't need drawings to do that!
Well they have had nearly 70 years of trying so far (the Indians started to produce Lister CS spares shortly after independence), and it should be obvious from some of the ongoing forum post content on here alone, that they still have much to learn
If the Chinese think there is a buck to be made with these things they will be spitting them out before you know it and not doubt if they are of the quality of their other engines. they are going to be dam near impossible to compete with given their industrial muscle.
Quite so, the Chinese are very smart people, look how they have outsmarted the Western capitalists, by playing the long game with them and by quickly recognizing our insatiable demand for [and then helpfully producing an] endless quantities of consumerism driven cheap worthless rubbish that is imported into western counties [yes it has made some western capitalists very rich in the process, but at the same time it has decimated a lot of the manufacturing capability in these same countries], whilst then using these profits to invest in long term strategic goals. Such as: buying up American debt, acquiring key areas of Western industry (to get the IP rights), and buying vast areas of; Australia, Africa, and South America for the natural resources. Which will all contribute to allowing them to up their game further and compete in advanced industries. For example they have just started production of their own domestic passenger aircraft, and that was only ten years after Airbus transferred some of its manufacturing capability to China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919
However from how easily you recently and eloquently described how you proceeded to split one of those Chinese cylinder barrels in half. It would seem they, like their Indian counterparts still have much to learn in the metallurgy department ;D. So until then I think I will pass on flying in one of these aircraft.
I believe that another factor in parts decisions is that practically nobody is running these slow speed engines any kind of hours.The price of fuel , lower priced solar , better battery technology, newer engine technologies such as the excellent Kubota and who knows what else comes into play.
I would agree with you there regarding the use of these engines in Western countries, but the export figures from India would still suggest a strong demand for exports to 3rd world countries.
See here for the latest export figures from India, for all types of Lister engine, and it is clear that the CS engine still forms a significant part of those exports, which are mainly destined to third world countries. With Iraq and Nigeria been the most popular export destinations.
https://www.zauba.com/export-Lister-hs-code.html
-
We stock ALL parts for the Lister engine series, including clones. gary@dieselgen.com
dieselgman
Any Petteroid parts ?
-
We keep quite a few original Petter parts... plus we have the full parts and service documentation for all Petter models. No Indian Petter clones at this time.
dieselgman