re injectorsThe return port is to return injector internal leakage back to the fuel tank. In early versions there was small collector can instead of the tank return. I have not personally experienced this leakage, but after many hours and internal wear, I suppose it does happen.
Anyone ever have any dribble coming out of that return port, that is supposed to go back to the fuel tank ?
I've not had a drop, and am wondering exactly what the function of the port is. Why is it supposed to dribble, and what does it mean if it does not ?
@Dsmoker:
Re: boring it out to re-sleeve. Had that done with my 6/1. worked fine, lots of meat in that cylinder wall to machine out and re-sleeve back to original 4.5" bore. I did not measure the O.D. of the dry sleeve, though if memory serves, it has at least 1/8" wall thickness. There was no step in the O.D. You must use a cast iron piston for the 6/1 or your machine will be out of balance at least. Al pistons are used in the 8/1.
Cheers, Hugh
Seriously, I would return that cylinder and piston into service as is. I have seen many worse than this that ran just fine. The wear into the chrome coating is quite normal for this age, and seems not to cause any great concern with compression loss, blowby or oil consumption issues. The money saved too, as you have found is considerable. I suggest put it together and give it a run. I think you will find its all good, and you have nothing to lose by trying it anyway. These are not a Ferrari engine, they are an overbuilt agricultural design that will run happily with greatly out of spec tolerances, this is why they are 80 years old and still running.
@ Dieselsmoker:
Oh for a lathe and the knowledge of how to use it!
The last photo with the broken cast cam bushing: looks like the missing part of it may be a match to the bit I found in my crankcase sump. Must have ended up there long ago, as an intact, complete bushing is there now!
Thanks for the photos, keep us in the loop.
Cheers,
Hugh
Very nice machining work. Looks like a Asian made lathe .
Is that a brazed carbide tool you are using ? I've never had any luck with those brazed tools for some reason .
I made a new camshaft bush for my roid , I used a chunk of cast iron I had here .
I like how you the reversed tool post to give more room for the tool in front of the live centre , I must remember that trick
Mike
Very nice! You do good work. Sure is nice to have the right tools for the job isn't it?
Beautiful lathe work... I thought you might want a look at the internal machining on another bronze cam end bushing - Lister part number 009-06003 ...
Passive lubricating oil distribution guaranteed this way.
dieselgman
As I understand it, the axial groove provides the pathway for splashed oil to enter the bushing (at 12 o'clock) and the radial groove provides a small reservoir around the camshaft circumference to keep the bush fully lubricated.
I have not been inside enough of the Dursley CS originals to claim a very broad experience with this specific design detail overall... but I believe it to be to original specs. There were different part numbers for this same part on the twins vs the singles and this one might match the twin design where there was also a center bushing involved. I do not believe the loss of bearing surface area to be much of a factor when the groove is properly located, fully reliable lubrication is probably the more important design aspect in this case.
dieselgman
Just carefully measure the crank journals for excessive wear and be sure they are polished to a mirror finish before installing new bearings.
Dieselsmoker, That main bearing flange (thrust face) thickness should be 0.30 inches or 7.8mm.
dieselgman
I know... a lot of assumptions about the data provided for trained machinists.
crank main journal 1.998/1.9975 this is the acceptable freshly machined range.
crank pin journal 2.498/2.4975 maximum wear to 2.491
dieselgman
Fit and measure a wrist-pin to determine the wear involved.
On the main bearings... I would just add the recommended oil clearance to the initial machined journal dimension for determining the shell dimension.
dieselgman
There are some snippets of this information here and there in the technical literature, but it is a bit of a pain that not much is published together in a readily accessible format. As the decades went by, Lister did improve greatly on their workshop and technical manuals.
On those clearances... I believe that we have used 0.003" as nominal oil clearance but I will have to do some looking to confirm with precision. Your information for RC5 does look about right.
I could just measure a new main bearing for you as a point of reference.
dieselgman
Dieselsmoker, That main bearing flange (thrust face) thickness should be 0.30 inches or 7.8mm.
dieselgman
Impressive work! I know I would never have that much patience unless there was no alternative part available.
dieselgman
Great job, Dieselsmoker, I like your style! To me the ability to repair bushed mains makes them preferable to the roller bearing type. What would be the worst that could happen if the bush bearings were turned from brass or aluminium ? Would the hardness wear out the crankshaft metal? ??? Leland
Yes, the spec for end float is .005-.010.
Those should be #6 taper pins and are readily available from us or from McMaster Carr in the USA. The proper taper reamer is also available. If you purchased Indian product, then sizing data is unreliable - as might be expected.
dieselgman
That i.p. cam lobe looks to be pretty rough and pitted... is it just the surface needing polishing? Or do you need a new lobe?
Looks like you have those pins fitting nicely now! Good work!
dieselgman
Nicely done! ;) What did you clean your brass parts with?
Dieselsmoker:
I am one of those who switched over from straight non detergent oil to a detergent oil in my listeroid. I have many small engines around the homestead, they all specify detergent oil and none have filters, seemed like if a modern Honda or such can run detergent, then a very forgiving slow-speed engine can do it as well. I have added a filter to the listeroid. Got it from SEP; the cost was reasonable and replacement cartridges are available from your local NAPA dealer.
Details on a previous post.
I have recently refurbished my Dursley 6/1, and will be using detergent oil in it as well. I believe later Dursley manuals specified detergent oil, but don't quote me there.
I am using up the remainder of my 5 gallon pail of straight 30 wt to oil the valve springs and push-rods.
Cheers,
Hugh
Beautiful job on the restoration! Sounds very sweet.Thanks BruceM. Yes the engine sound very nice. I just need to get an exhaust silencer to get rid of the loud barking - Next a cooling tank so I don't have to shut it down!
Some of us Listeroid owners have been using detergent oils and have thousands of hours without troubles, including myself.
I was having trouble with spalling of the upper big connecting bearing initially, but this was solved by going to a solid upper bearing (no oil grooves) and a hollow dipper. The problem may have just been the typical Rajkot bearing quality and nothing more.
Dieselsmoker:I have a copy of one of the newer manuals and it does specify detergent oil. This exact specification is what made me wonder just HOW serious the oil issue is. I have absolutely no experience with non-detergent oil and I would be very interested to see how soon, and how much sludge would form in the engine. I also own small air cooled petrol engines that has been run on high detergent oils all their life. My Briggs & Stratton 5HP is a 1979 model that still mows the lawn twice a week year in and year out... I do however believe that regular oil changes did the trick.
I am one of those who switched over from straight non detergent oil to a detergent oil in my listeroid. I have many small engines around the homestead, they all specify detergent oil and none have filters, seemed like if a modern Honda or such can run detergent, then a very forgiving slow-speed engine can do it as well. I have added a filter to the listeroid. Got it from SEP; the cost was reasonable and replacement cartridges are available from your local NAPA dealer.
Details on a previous post.
I have recently refurbished my Dursley 6/1, and will be using detergent oil in it as well. I believe later Dursley manuals specified detergent oil, but don't quote me there.
I am using up the remainder of my 5 gallon pail of straight 30 wt to oil the valve springs and push-rods.
Cheers,
Hugh
One option to consider is to add an external oil pump & filter; simply feed from the sump, run through the filter, back into the sump. When the engine is running, you'll filter all of the oil regularly, and even with it not running you'll filter 99%. Keep a weather eye on the state of the filter (unless you go for a spin-on type that you can't easily examine).This is a great idea to achieve maximum filtration capacity. Maybe something to consider for someone who works the engine relentlessly and wants maximum life from the engine.
Temper your thoughts with the fact that old slow revving engines without full flow oil filtration rely on the non or low detergent (API CD or lower) oil allowing metal particles as a result of normal wear and tear dropping out of harms to the bottom of the sump. Hence provision to mop out the sump from time to time. Higher detergent oils used in engines with full flow oil filtration effectively encapsulate these same small particles and so allow them to be carried in the oil to be trapped by the filter. Clearly if there were allowed to pass through engine bearing surfaces time and again it would not be conducive to engine longevity.I fully agree with the non-detergent theory BUT: I have a 1970 Lister CS instruction book that states: "The engine must be run on good quality diesel engine heavy duty detergent lubricating oil." There might however be a catch in the wording as the specification is "MIL-L-2104A", MIL-L-2104A detergent oil is a very old spec - a comparison to a modern oil might be interesting.
Remember also the old misconception that modern detergent oils were not around when Lister first built diesels, but would have recommended the latest detergent oils nowadays, carries no weight. They certainly never recommended such with any of their engines that didn't have full filtration.
Here is a source in the U.S. I haven't tried it, but a friend of mine has used it in his hit and miss engines..Nice to have these products available off the shelve. I'll follow the link and see what I can find out regarding the specifications.
http://www.ruralking.com/oil-harvest-king-30wt-n-d-2-gal.html?utm_medium=cpc&tum_source=bing&utm_campaign=%28roi%29+agriculture+-+shopping&utm_content=agriculture+shopping (http://www.ruralking.com/oil-harvest-king-30wt-n-d-2-gal.html?utm_medium=cpc&tum_source=bing&utm_campaign=%28roi%29+agriculture+-+shopping&utm_content=agriculture+shopping)
Temper your thoughts with the fact that old slow revving engines without full flow oil filtration rely on the non or low detergent (API CD or lower) oil allowing metal particles as a result of normal wear and tear dropping out of harms to the bottom of the sump. Hence provision to mop out the sump from time to time. Higher detergent oils used in engines with full flow oil filtration effectively encapsulate these same small particles and so allow them to be carried in the oil to be trapped by the filter. Clearly if there were allowed to pass through engine bearing surfaces time and again it would not be conducive to engine longevity.I fully agree with the non-detergent theory BUT: I have a 1970 Lister CS instruction book that states: "The engine must be run on good quality diesel engine heavy duty detergent lubricating oil." There might however be a catch in the wording as the specification is "MIL-L-2104A", MIL-L-2104A detergent oil is a very old spec - a comparison to a modern oil might be interesting.
Remember also the old misconception that modern detergent oils were not around when Lister first built diesels, but would have recommended the latest detergent oils nowadays, carries no weight. They certainly never recommended such with any of their engines that didn't have full filtration.
Where freezing is a concern, many of us find it is more practical to use a radiator; much less expense on antifreeze.Hi Bruce. Valid point - I am however more inclined to using a tank due to it's simplicity and authentic look..
@Dieselsmoker
Re: Gov spring. Check WOK at the top of the forum.
Springs mentioned there seem to do the job really well. I am still able to hold 1Hz difference between no load and full load of 3200 Watts (60.4Hz-59.4Hz). Available at Home Depot for small money, and works better (much better) than the OEM spring on my Dursley Startomatic.
The yoke at the pump rack needs some slop to overcome binding due to geometry of the linkage.
Cooling: I am using a 30 gallon boiler tank which takes hours to reach a stable temperature under load. Have run as much as 8 hours without getting too hot in moderate OAT conditions.
As BruceM says, antifreeze is costly. And the antifreeze needs changing after a time, again costly and difficult to dispose of properly. I am converting to an old fashioned cast iron radiator that a friend kindly gave me. Drastically reduces antifreeze quantity requirement. In the "old days" of listeroids, I recall G. Breckenridge used one of these cast iron rads to cool his 6/1 test engine with great success. A bit hard to come by though.
Cheers,
Hugh
As you have found tank cooling is not going to be a great set up if you want cooling under all conditions plus portability. I had a 6/1 that we took to shows and to place some load on it we ran a generator head and pulled a couple fans. Cooling was provided by a 15 gallon tank which provided the look yet saved weight and bulk. That engine would go 4 hours or so on hot days or all day during cool weather. Sold that engine in a weak moment but have pictures of a similar set up with a 6/1 Listeroid if you care to see them.
I just looked up the drawing that Lister made of a Start-O-Matic CS1 installed in a masonary shed.Hi Jordan.
The cooling tank, also in the shed, is even bigger than a standard "200 litre" drum.
The diameter is similar at 23 inches, but the height is 47 inches, compared to normal drum at 34.5 inches.
It gives a capacity approaching 320 litres, about a third greater. That's about 70 imperial gallons, or 84 US gallons.
It seems to be the factory recommedation, but there are some puzzling aspects.
Like, isn't there such a thing as over-cooling?
And, where does the heat go, when it does eventually build up?
There's no fan, and it's inside an enclosed place, presumably (for silence).
Like the exhaust system, I'm baffled.
Jordan
Nice looking engine! ;D Anybody got a pic of the type of cast iron radiator you are talking about?Thank you!
Is this like the old room warming radiators?
TxBlacksmith....here is a link to a vid from 2010. shows George B's simple set-up with a cast iron radiator. |My radiator has about double this amount of fins (9) so should work fine. http://www.utterpower.com/new-videos-on-the-way-heres-the-pumphouse-in-hd/I've never been keen on a radiator's looks but THAT looks GREAT!!
Dieselsmoker.........In South Africa, you are indeed far away from a Home Depot. Here in Canada, the HD stores do not carry that spring either, so I had a friend in the U.S. buy and send one to me. Perhaps someone on the forum who lives in the U.S. would send you one. They most definately work.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Smoker,
Possibly fit a heavy compression spring on the pivot bolt to take up the small amount of slack in the 5th wheel... That will stop it rattling on the power stroke... Don't forget a grease nipple or five as well... Also on the wheel hubs....
Looking VERY smart indeed....!
Cheerz
Ed
Nice joint design and beautiful bead on the weld! ;D
Engine No: 1678
Spec: 61
Year: 13 (+1950) = 1963
There is another way of dating a genuine Lister CS engine. This information has been copied and pasted from the UK Lister CSOG and it goes like this.
You can always look on the crankcase, on the opposite side to the
injection pump, right above the crankshaft bearing housing you will
find foundry casting marks telling you the month and year that it was
cast. It will be something like 15-A-53
Where 15 is the day or batch number, A is the month, where A=Jan,
B=Feb etc and 53 is the year.
Mick
Hi DS....
+1 for what CarlB said.... But... For something really pretty.... Look for an OLD 100L low pressure electrical inline geyser(water heater)... they had copper inners.... Strip off the outer insulation, stand on the non-element side(which is dished) and put the needed fittings in place after taking off the other/top/element side to give you a lovely, copper water tank.... To sit and solder all those copper pipes in will be a pain on your design, as well as prone to cracking loose if you transport it much on bad roads....
Just a thought....
Cheerz
Ed
PS - Failing that, take a look round the scrapyards for an OLD radiator, a la Fergusson TED or Massey 135 .... Brass endcaps with copper cores and fins.... Looks beautiful when the black paint is removed and clear lacquer is applied....
@Smoker....find yourself a cast iron rad......way cool (sorry, couldn't resist) and a 10 fin works great. That's what I'm using for my "Roid daily driver.
My Dursley Startomatic has an old milk can with bosses welded in for its cooling tank and a stainless beer keg for the fuel tank........
As long as it is painted in Brunswick green you are good to go!
"Run what you brung"
Cheers,
Hugh
AS much as it will upset the old school Purists, I have come to believe that critical belt alignment is WAY over rated. Like a lot of other things on the net.
I don't know if it is modern belts or the thing of having perfect alignment was a crock from the start but I have run things Big hours with visibly way off belts and haven't been able to find any problem.
Obviously the longer the belt the more ability and flexibility it has to self align.
If one is concerned about getting 10 years out of a belt I'm sure perfect alignment helps but if you are one that believes in preventative maintenance and changing things before they fail, then a bit of misalignment in my experience doesn't hurt and I have never seen it really damage or wear a belt either. I suppose it would depend on what one considered a reasonable degree of being out but I have had some I looked at and thought " bloody hell!" and it seemed that the lack of efficiency may have been a lot more of a problem than reduced belt life.
Not saying you can have them a mile out and don't worry, just no need to get too precise IMHO.... especially if you have a 2 ft gap between the pulleys.
The other thing I have found is tension. I put just enough on to stop them slipping and that's it. My brother in law worked in the power transmission industry and he was in agreeance. He said the less tension, the less strain and load on bearings and as long as they don't slip, all good.
That said, I remember going interstate one night on business and staying in this high class hotel. Outside the window there must have been an AC unit or ventilator or something. Every time the thing kicked in, the belts on this thing would scream and scare the ship out of me. I had a load of crap with me and really didn't want to move it all in the middle of the night but I didn't get used to the screeching. By the morning I was a tired, nervous wreck.
I went down to the desk and didn't even try to be polite or subtle. They upgraded me to a very swish room and although I wasn't going to stay, I said well I was going to now stay another 3 nights as I have more people to see, am I going to have to move yet again? No, that's fine. Terrific. Mrs and I had 3 days sight seeing although most of the first day we spent catching up on sleep we missed from the night before.
Still a couple of things on my to-do list, but I'm already toying with an idea in the back of my head to improve the cooling system's look and function.
Any thoughts or ideas?
If you want something small or even you could hide, Look a t the cabin heater from a car. They will transfer an amazing amount of heat thanks to their dense design. I had a car i took the cooling fans off all together and in traffic wold just run the heater flat out. Yes, after a couple of summers doing that it got old but the car never over heated. I had a W123 Diesel mec I used to tow an oversize trailer with. Thing was only about half the cars rated towing weight but being enclosed and having a huge frontage, it was like a parachute. Towing it over 80 even with friends far more new and powerful cars used to really tax the HP and heat the things up.
The old merc would be running right at the wrong end of hot but putting on the cabin heater and rolling down all the windows made a HUGE difference. Even on my current truck that has a radiator like a Mack, it can get too warm pulling heavy loads up slow, winding hills. Put the cabin heater on and it's fine. Clearly they are dispatching a lot more than 6 HP worth of heat so I have no doubt they would easily keep a lister cool with the right fan sucking the air through.
Another one I see at the local engine show most years is a setup where the guy uses the frame itself as the radiator. He has both a genny and a pump mounted on the frame so it's kinda long and also built with the purpose in mind but the water travels through and around the frame and uses it as the heat exchanger. There are a couple of fittings on each end and he said he ran a 1" Pipe through the centre and was going to couple that to the pump throughput for extra cooling but found it wasn't necessary.
There is an opportunity to come up with something creative, different and funky here that could make the engine a real conversation piece. Maybe go for something a bit unusual here to really make your setup stand out.
Hey DS,
I had a look see through my history, but can't find it... Sorry...
I do remember that the "hinge" bolts for the alternator were a little bigger than the mounting bolts for the roid... the damping blocks were about 3" or maybe a little less', square... The hinge tabs looked to be around 2" wide by about 1/2" thick at a rough guestimate...
Hope that helps....
Cheers
Ed
@ Dieselsmoker....
I also use the hinge mount for my generator. The 8-rib drive belt slipped or chirped at higher loads, so added a tensioner in the form of a threaded rod through the generator base and attached to the engine mount rail. A nut welded to an old crank handle makes a no tool adjuster. I have mounted this generator on the exhaust side of the engine from the cooling tank, the idea being easier removal of the crankcase access panel and to reduce chance of coolant leaking onto the gen head. The downside is that the rotation tends to lift the generator rather than tighten the belt.......hence the tensioner: ......choices.......
IMHO, a hinge mount is a better set-up than the usual channel/slider type of mount.
There is the additional benefit of being able to remove the gen head without disturbing belt alignment by just pulling out the hinge pin.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hey DS,
You are pretty close to being spot on! Where your hinge point is, the other chap had tabs below the gen head base pointing down and tabs on the main chassis of the unit pointing upwards.... All in all, all it did was make the genhead ride a little higher than yours, but not by much....
Cheers
Ed
Nice setup with the air filter.
I'm always a bit surprised people, especially the people that do rely on them in the 3rd world places, seem to have a tendency to run them without air filters when they are in very dusty, dirty places.
I have an air filter box of similar swirl design from a Toyota hilux that I am keeping for the same application. The filter is paper and is huge. I doubt it will ever need changing. Even at 90% blocked it will still probably pass enough air for the Roid!
I have thought about a water bubbler type setup where the air is drawn or bubbled through a water bath. I saw something about this in an old copy of popular mechanics I think it was. it was supposed to be a cheap and easy way to get the dirt out of excessively dusty air. the water was merely drained each day and clean water added. seemed to be very effective.
For my purposes would no doubt also have merit as a water/ vapor injection for cleaning.
Not that it is particularly needed for most light-duty stationary applications... but Lister used a large Donaldson cyclopac type filter for their heavy-duty applications. The units for the HR series have a cyclonic pre-filter that spins out much of the dirt before it ever gets to the paper filters inside. No moving parts, just a plastic bowl to empty once in awhile depending on conditions. John Deere uses something similar on their earth-moving and also farm equipment as do most other manufacturers. So, if you are needing heavy-duty air cleaning, there is plenty of stuff out there for the picking.
I have also noted quite a few third-world applications where the air filtration is simply ignored... if labor and parts are cheap enough, then maybe the economics of replacing rings (and cylinders) is not any big deal. I have seen quite a few industrial Listers with dusted rings before though, and premature engine failures are pretty costly in most places.
dieselgman
I don't know that I'd recommend a Rajkot fuel tank- my original Metro petcock parts in particular were poorly made and leaky. The stamped steel bits should be OK.
.........This will at least give me something to hold fuel while I try to get it running.I'm sooooooo tired of topping up that plasic funnel every 5 minutes ::) :laugh:
...We also have original tanks, but...Ah! Almost got excited there :D
dieselgman
...That old sheet metal is just nowhere near as resilient as the cast iron...Quite obvious how many old engines are without tanks... One would think that the oily diesel fuel would preserve the plate ???
dieselgman
Hey DS!Pleasure Ed - I googled low and high and I couldn't find a thing on the Hoffbergs. I hope it's of use to you or someone else.
Thanks for the diagrams! Much appreciated!!
Interestingly, mine is a tad different with the transformer et al....
Give it a try sans regulator, just as it stands.... You never know, It might work a charm!
As to the pinouts in the box - S/S1 could be starting and C/C1 could be charging....(Going by a very old memory, a bit of guesswork and a bit of visual as to the gauge of wires connected...) The only thing I would be hesitant to try out would be the starting side of things, due to currents involved... Big/expensive smoke cloud if incorrect.... The rest of the connections are outputs, so, unless you load them, no current flowing, no smoke! Employ a volt meter once you get it spinning and take a look to see what they are doing....
Cheers
Ed
I had, (but sold) a Stamford self regulating generator similar to the Hoffberg. No VR required. Never used the machine, so cannot comment about its operation. Some models had starter windings as well. Alas, not the case with mine, or I would not have sold it! These were high spec items, production stopped because they were costly to manufacture.
Apparently, Cummins bought the rights to Stamford, and so acquired all the documentation, even on no longer produced generators. An engineer at Cummins searched the archives, and was able to find the manual for these transformer controlled self regulating generators: even including the build sheet for the particular generator s/n that I had.
I do still have the PDF of the manual, some of the information may be relevant to the Hoffberg.
Anyone wanting a copy of this PDF for Stamford model D8 and D11 can PM me, i will forward it along.
Cheers,
Hugh
My quick math isn't wasn't it once was but your governning as it stands is running under 1% from no load to something a little over half load. Not trying to desuade you from playing with it but your expectations may be a bit unrealistic for the CS governor, it ain't electronic, LOL.
My experience with CS and clone governors tells me you should have that spring copied and sell them because your governor response is flat EXCELLANT!! as compared to typical ;)
I have massaged my 5KW 'roid set governor a bit and as it not stands I lose about 3Hz from no load to 3KW. Not sure how that compares with some of the others here who have spent much time and effort on governing but as compared to stock its quite an improvement.
Oil in cooling systems isn't supposed to be a good thing ( or is that steam engine Boilers?) but worked fine for me.
Y'know, our old mate Starfire - who ran that old 3/1 over on the West Coast of New Zealand as his sole generator for maybe seven or eight years - said leave some oil floating on top of the coolant water to radically reduce evaporative loss.Makes sense that the layer of oil will achieve that, but I see two potential problems with that:
It wouldn't surprise me if it left an oily residue on the tank surface?
Or you could do as I have done and use a copper hot water cylinder?Oh yes! I love the look of the copper cylinders! But I can't find one to save my life... First prize for me would be a brass or copper radiator... But for now I'm making the best of the old grease drum :D :D
For many years I ran a mixture of engine oil and detergent in my Vehicles cooling system.Interesting idea... I'm busy exchanging e-mails with one of our local oil suppliers and it seems like they have something synthetic that will do the job BUT at a price. Pity communication is not too good so I can't tell you much more now - I'll probably have to go there when I get time.
I was basically trying to make soluble oil and seemed to achieve that.
I worked. Never had any rust or corrosion in that cast iron engine. <<SNIP>>
Dissolved the oil with the detergent to make a white mix and put it in with a new radiator. Never had a cooling problem in the 3.5 years I had the car and never saw a speck of rust or scale. and I looked. Frequently.
From what I did see the oil seemed to permeate the scale that was left and neutralize it. Bit like fish oil. Had some rust in that car when I got it and I blew fish oil into it with an old spray gun turned way up so the oil was like a fog and that rust never moved. I pointed it out to the guy I sold the car to who was very pleased I had done it as he always did it to his cars too. <<SNIP>>So I've never worked with fish oil before and inSTINCtively (excuse the pun) I'm thinking that your car now smells like dead fish?? :P ;D :o
I'll never try out anything other than the OEM coolant additives in my car. It works well in our extremes of cold winters and hot summers, and the cost is not that high either. The coolant has a number of jobs to to, and if you miss one the repair bill could be ugly. (Anti-boil / anti-freeze / anti-corrosion + Water pump lube)QuoteHow about using central heating inhibitor in a car cooling system? That's designed to prevent rust/scale, on dissimilar metals too (copper pipe/steel radiators/brass valves). I haven't looked at it myself, it rarely gets hot enough in the UK to bother a modern car's cooling system.
For many years I ran a mixture of engine oil and detergent in my Vehicles cooling system.Interesting idea... I'm busy exchanging e-mails with one of our local oil suppliers and it seems like they have something synthetic that will do the job BUT at a price. Pity communication is not too good so I can't tell you much more now - I'll probably have to go there when I get time.
I was basically trying to make soluble oil and seemed to achieve that.
I worked. Never had any rust or corrosion in that cast iron engine. <<SNIP>>
Dissolved the oil with the detergent to make a white mix and put it in with a new radiator. Never had a cooling problem in the 3.5 years I had the car and never saw a speck of rust or scale. and I looked. Frequently.
I use this stuff on my CNC mill: http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=25_51&products_id=249I think this is definitely in the right direction of what I have in mind.
I've had the same mix sat in the sump for over 2 years now (occasionally it gets topped up due to evaporative or sprayed-all-over-the-operator losses...), no bio or stink problems at all. It does have some slideway oil floating around in it, but presumably not enough to form a skin (it's the anaerobic microbes which case the bad smells). If you're UK based and want a litre of the stuff to play with, let me know, I've still got some in the barrel.
Not sure synthetic was even around back then. If it was, I either hadn't heard of it or certainly couldn't afford it!"Back then" nothing was synthetic... Now everything is and that's why we play with Listers and not Hondas* ;)
I did do it thoroughly and used only new engine oil. :0)
.........Of course the smell of burning rubber back then was a daily occurrence then for most young guys so the smell of fish oil was never too bad.This story sound so familiar. Now the focus is more on bling and sound systems ::)
Guess if you were real worried about the odour you could always put some fragrant oil in with it.;D ;D
Eucalyptus would be very Orstraian for us down under. Maybe Rose petal oil for Californians and sump oil for people who live in Detroit?
For the poms maybe Chamomile or peppermint. Ed would like his Miscreant scented because he would get a warm fuzzy feeling every time he got a whiff knowing the source thereof that was ground up and distilled. :0)
Veg oil also dries off and goes plastic like. .......I use "Boiled Linseed Oil" to protect wood and metal surfaces. I also absolutely love the smell of it. It takes forever to dry properly, but it forms a real good protective layer.
.......In my day ( just after the advent of electricity) You had a 6 or an 8. I was poor and only had a 6 but I was a little bit smart, I did the suspension and the brakes which back then was cheaper than engine mods. Most guys could get me in a straight line but put in just one bend and I had them every time.I was born in the wrong era.... I could choose between a 4, a 4 or a 4... >:(
I love watching the YT vids with idiots in hot cars showing off in crowds and putting the things into poles or ditches or brink walls. Unfortunately there are also plenty where they put them into other cars and people. No one I knew EVER did that because somehow as stupid as we were, we weren't that dam stupid.Ha! If I'm not watching engine or tractor videos I also end up at the sideways Mustangs. ;D
Of course there are still those that Drive V8's. Most of the real Dipshits round here Drive Mercedes C63's. It's what all the successful Drug dealers with any Cred drive and there are no shortage of the filthy scum round here let me tell you. The kingpins seem to Drive G wagons......Of course nothing wrong with those cars, but almost none of the owners appreciates them. It's all about image. Down here we have other scum driving these cars, but lets leave that discussion for another day. I'm in a good mood at the moment and things can get ugly if I start...
I love that look on your engine! That's serious hard arse old skool.Thanks. I had to mention before - the gloss finish you see in the video fades to a matt, and adds to the old look.
I am wanting to do a bit of decorative metal work soon. I'll have a go at finishing the work the same way. I pointed that look out to my wife on a candelabra thing we saw in a shop on the weekend and she loves it too. Now I know how to do it and can score some brownie points. :0)
Can't see my old roid ever being like that but maybe one day I'll be able to buy one that's worthy of art status.
Nice work all round. Might be slow - nothing wrong with that and your restoration looks a treat.I must always add that I also restored my house at the same time. At times months literally passed that I couldn't touch the engine - frustrating times...
Geez that's a nice looking setup!
I think some of us go too far with the restos. Time they are finished they are far too nice to be actually put to work. Only fit to be taken out of the Lounge room and given a run while guests sit round and watch and listen to them before being put back inside with the rest of the fine Furnishings.
Can't see my old roid ever being like that but maybe one day I'll be able to buy one that's worthy of art status.
Can't see my old roid ever being like that but maybe one day I'll be able to buy one that's worthy of art status.
I reckon that's the trick glort - have 2 engines, one in working clothes, the other a prom queen...
Dieselsmoker - that's a fine looking rig! I don't think you can call it a restoration any more, there's no way even a genuine Lister came out of the factory looking that good! Is that an intake silencer I see? How much of a difference does it make to the running noise? I have an Indian oil bath filter on mine, if it cuts a decent amount of noise out, I'd quite like to make a silencer like yours.
Cheers!
Ade.
I use RMS calculation via AVR microcontroller (Arduino processor) for my inverter. With the 10 bit A/D and rectified AC scaled to 5 V,....
// initialize Timer2
TCCR2A = 0; //normal operation
TCCR2B = B00000111;//timer2 prescale of 1024. 64 usec/count at 16MHz clock.
// 130 counts per 8.88ms.
TCNT2 = 0; //zero timer2 count
TIMSK2 = 0; //no interrupts for timer2
interrupts(); // enable all interrupts
}
void loop()
{
unsigned long SumV;
unsigned long Vlong;
unsigned int RMS;
byte i;
//RMS calculations
//Sync with H-bridge output
//AD 10 bit value of 1023 should equal 400 volts peak. So RMS goal (230V)= 588.
#define MaxIndex 62
while (!StartWave) {}// wait for start of sine wave flag set in ISR
TCNT2 = 0; //reset RMS sample timer counter (timer2)
if (SwitchTimerFlag) //start of waveform now change index for ISR for new voltage
{
Tindx = NewIndex;
SwitchTimerFlag = false;
}
StartWave = false; // reset interrupt routine flag
// Now collect one half wave worth of RMS voltage-65 samples
SumV = 0;
for ( i = 1; i < 131; i = i + 2 ) // 64 usec per count so 128 usec per sample
{
Vlong = analogRead(A0); //compiler requires long for a sq() or multiply to work properly
SumV = SumV + sq(Vlong);
while (TCNT2 < i) {}; // hang for next timer2 count
}
// done with real time samples, now calculate RMS and load new TimeTable entry into Timer array
// digitalWrite(11, !digitalRead(11)); //debug
RMS = sqrt ( SumV / 65); // approx 512 should be middle of desired voltage range
Bravo on your show debut. Your restoration is most impressive.
I don't recall your engine's break in status, but it often takes 100+ hours under load for a CS to fully seat the rings. My exhaust looked even better after 200 hrs. The exhaust should be nearly clear when warmed up under moderate load.
It's hard to judge your spray pattern from a photo so close to the nozzle but it might be too spray/jet like and not like a "burst of fog". (May not be atomizing well.) I'd swap in a new nozzle or injector and see if that helps. Check it visually first so you can see what a good one looks like. Your injector may be fine; I can tell more from the sound and mist from it hitting in a coffee can since that's what I use with my DIY grease gun pop tester. A jet is not ideal. A bit of carbon in the nozzle can cause a jet, as can poor pintle fit, in my limited experience.
You have done a brilliant job on your machine!
It looks awesome and runs beautifully smooth as well.
The injector on my machine fires in a circle pattern. The fuel comes out from every side, not firing like yours appears to be to one side. I agree with Bruce, I can tell more about how they are firing from the sound, at least on my china diesel which I have had more hands on time with. Had to pull that apart a few times due to not running it for over a year and the veg fuel gumming it up. No big deal to clean it but as soon as I wind it up I can tell by the sound if it's right or not.
Given the time and incredible effort you have put into the thing, a few more bucks on a new injector may be worth while if you can't clean this one.
The ones on my china diesels come apart easily and there isn't much to them but they are easy to clean out stuff you can't see but just won't clean themselves with any sort of solvent when running.
Unscrewing the muffler may give you an indication as to how the engine is running. If it's wet in the exhaust port at all something's not quite right.
May not be bedded in with the rings or it may be the injector but I would eliminate the easiest possibility first and then give it some time and see how you go.
Would be best at this stage to always run with a load on the thing. If you have electric hot water heating you could always hook it up to that to give it a load to work from and get some benefit out of it.
Your smoke n the video seems to look a bit blueish- so I'd bet on ring seating or excess splash oil.
I'm also a MB 300D owner/driver. Matching pop pressure/pattern for it is quite helpful to engine smoothness. A DIY grease gun pop tester worked well for me.
They never brought them out here so mine being NA was woefully slow, even to the point of being dangerous I felt.
I look at it like this, if you put a bit of oil or 2 stroke in your engine and it dosen't work, so what? You have lost nothing. IF it does work, even to offset one IP or injector failure or rebuild, you are a long way ahead.
Smoke never worries me in the least as long as it's from a 2 stroke or a Diesel. In this case some 2 stroke may reduce the smoke levels as it has additives to do that. It could also help with carbon buildup as it has additives designed to prevent that as well.
I just don't feel comfortable these days with straight Diesel. Adding some oil I think is very worth while and lets me feel more comfortable about the well being of my Diesels.
Wow!Thank you for the kind words.
Definitely one of the most beautifully finished, best detailed and well equipped setups I have seen. And runs like a swiss watch as well.
BIG credit to you mate.
Now that one is finished and you have nothing else to do, Can I send you my roid and a Cheque to give it the same once over??We can talk business if you have LOTS of patience! :D
I'd be proud as punch to have something like that in my shed..... or lounge room more likely!
+1 Glort, what a beautiful restoration, a credit to you and your skills. Hope mine turns out as nice.Thank you!
I managed to source Oilite bushes for my rockers, right internal/external dimensions but 1/8" too long, not a difficult fix.
Bob
That's one gorgeous restoration, Dieselsmoker!Thanks!
Incredible, super only the video should last 30 min longer. Really amazing.Thanks!