Lister Engine Forum
Slow Speed Diesel Engines => Changfa Engines => Topic started by: DirtMerchant on May 25, 2013, 09:30:14 AM
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No brand
ZS1130 Single cylinder, horizontal, 4-strokes, water-cooled,Direct injection Max power:30HP/2200rpm Displacement:1.593L Fuel consumption rate(g/kw.h): ≤244.8 Starting System:Hand cranking and electric comes with tool kit and extra set of piston rings included 1 large flywheel
Buy it now for $850
Could I drive a 10kw head at 1500rpm with one of these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-diesel-30-hp-water-cooled-engine-good-for-pump-compressor-generator-head-/321035811570?pt=BI_Generators&hash=item4abf39baf2 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-diesel-30-hp-water-cooled-engine-good-for-pump-compressor-generator-head-/321035811570?pt=BI_Generators&hash=item4abf39baf2)
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You would want to get a real number for its horsepower rating at 1500rpm, but unless that particular power band is extremely steep for some reason, it seems that the engine in question should be ample horsepower for 10kW or somewhat better.
dieselgman
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I think I am going to pass on it for now, still getting the listeroid put together....apparently I am getting the fever....
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9142&g2_serialNumber=1)
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"apparently I am getting the fever...."
Welcome to the club! :laugh:
dieselgman
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Hard to say if a good deal or not? Depends on the quality, some are good, some are junk. I looked those over myself and tried to get some info from the seller but he was very uncooperative. $850 is getting "down there" however. The Cadillacs of that type engine in my opinion are the 1115 Laidongs which were brought in by John Ferguson who sold out to Jim at Just Live Off Grid. Haven't seen a price posted since Jim took them over. I own one of them and it is a SWEETHEART! I need to find a job for it.
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For direct drive it may make enough HP for 10KW of electricity at 1500 RPM. Where are you at that you run 50HZ? Since the engines are in Buffalo NY, I am guessing you will need 1800 RPM for 60HZ... That makes it even more likley to be within the engines available HP at that RPM to make 10KW. IF belt drive, I am sure you could arrange a pully relationship that gives you the necessary 20 HP to feed 10KW at your desired RPM. IF you don't have to ship it too far, $850 sounds pretty good to me...
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Hard to say if a good deal or not? Depends on the quality, some are good, some are junk. I looked those over myself and tried to get some info from the seller but he was very uncooperative. $850 is getting "down there" however. The Cadillacs of that type engine in my opinion are the 1115 Laidongs which were brought in by John Ferguson who sold out to Jim at Just Live Off Grid. Haven't seen a price posted since Jim took them over. I own one of them and it is a SWEETHEART! I need to find a job for it.
I have been speaking with him via email, he appears cooperative but seems like either English is a second language or he is emailing from a cell phone, his responses to questions are all short and cryptic. I see in the feedback he has a couple happy buyers of this engine, I am thinking about purchasing two of them as they seem really hard to find now. I am considering building one into a backup generator for my house, (not the off grid property where the Listeroid is) with a 10kw or maybe a 15kw ST. I would like to set it up for autostart but have yet to see anyone do this with a Changfa style....
I don't believe this is rated at 30hp either, everything I can find on the 1130 engines is that they are rated to 22hp @ 2200 rpm....
Buffalo is roughly a 6hr ride for me if I cut through Canada, I am thinking 7.5 hrs if I don't cut through Canada, I am thinking about driving out there to pick them up, would be a long day but probably far cheaper than shipping. I would cut through Canada on the way there but not for the return trip as I don't need the hassle at the border trying to come back in with a pair of epa banned engines....
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Good he is talking to you maybe he has learned a bit since putting those on Ebay a year ago, LOL. I asked him for some pictures of the actual engines he is selling since the photos don't match the description and he got real chitty with me,,, sorry don't need to go on and on about it.
As for the HP ratings there seems to be no standards. The more upfront of Mfgs and retailers list a maximum rating and a continuous rating and the continuous rating is somewhere around 80% of the maximum which is surely what he is claiming in the ads. 1130 should be about 23-25 HP continuous at full RPM,a bit less at 1800 my guess. I have one of the "economy" 1115s on my stand by set and it has about 70 hours on it now with just a couple very minor issues. I did circumvent a disaster by removing some covers and checking bolts as recommended on the sticky at the top of this forum. Personally I would do the same with that engine if I was to buy one, please keep us informed if you pull the trigger on one :).
Oops, guess that sticky is over on the other forum :o
Punch here http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?board=6.0
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Pulled the trigger today, having it shipped to me rather than picking up, will be interesting to see how this goes.
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The Changfa clone arrived on Friday, took it to the farm and unpacked it on Saturday. it is a monstor, very big, very heavy. Did some cursory checks, oiled and fueled it up, attempted a hand crank start. Hand crank starting this engine is just stupid, after several attempts and one kick back, it seems like the flywheel is unable to carry over the compression stroke, I spin it as fast as I can, then drop the decompression valve and continue to crank, it hits compression and bounces back. It bounced back so hard that I pulled something in my wrist.
After several failed attempts to hand start it, I decided to hook up the electric start, this does the same thing, gets to the compression stroke and stops the starter. I spin it as fast as the starter can go, the flip the decompression and it literally stops the starter. I am thinking the starter could be 24volts?
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9203&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9200&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9197&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9194&g2_serialNumber=2)
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ouch !
Do you get any smoke on the bounce back (at the intake) ? Was the injector firing?
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It looks pretty nice from here!
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ouch !
Do you get any smoke on the bounce back (at the intake) ? Was the injector firing?
No, no smoke on the bounce back and yes the injector was "creaking" on the decompressed strokes.
I contacted the seller to ask if it was a 12v or 24v starter, he asked if the starter was getting enough current, I have to admit I was using a cheap pair of jumper cables so it is possible there was not enough current for the starter to fully spool up, the jumper cables got to hot to touch fairly fast.
I will try it next weekend with some actual battery cables and see what I get....
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I'd sure like an engine like that and especially for that price!
You are getting a nice collection. Not going to be a power shortage at your place that's for sure!
I have one of these style engines and it's a real beauty. It's only the baby model but if the big one is anything like it, I'm sure you will be really pleased with it.
The flywheel does look pretty light on your one compared to my baby horizontal. The flywheel on mine isn't as large but much thicker.
Of course mine is tiny compared to yours but when I wind mine up and flip the decompression lever it will spin it through a couple of compressions. That doesn't happen often admittedly, it usually fires right up even on straight WVO no matter how long it's been sitting round.
Dare I say it but I think so far that engine is my favourite even over the 'roid.
The only drawback to it is the thing is the noisiest engine I have by a good measure. Yours may be a lot quieter as mine is not water cooled like yours which should help a lot in the sound department. Then again that may not be important to you being on a farm and not having neighbours 30Ft away.
Looking forward to seeing pics of how you set it up and vids of it running.
The changfa clone is being built up as a back up / standby gen for my residence and I have neighbors within 30 feet on either side, but not behind me...that is all woods. I would have used a Listeroid but my wife is dead set on having AC during a power outage and I would need a monster 2cyl Listeroid to generate the minimum 15kw I need, a 30hp Changfa seemed like a better answer.
I see my plan is failing....I was masking my collection as useful equipment...and you saw right through it, wonder how fast the wife catches on .... ;D
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It looks pretty nice from here!
Thanks, I will post video and photos as I go through the process of getting it running and turning it into a generator
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That engine has features identical to the 1115 I purchased from Carroll Stream several years ago including the flywheel. I cant hand crank the 1115 so its not hard to imagine that hand cranking that beast is a joke also. When you tried the starter did you let it spin up on decompression? Mine will just barely start with a big battery and cables unless it is allowed to spin up. I dont even try to start it otherwise, seems like it would be very hard on the starter. Be sure to let us know how it runs, hint,, we (I) like videos!
Selling the wife ends the first hot or cold day or two or three without grid power. First long outage we had we not only ran our place like nothing we ran a cable to or neighbors and powered them up also, not fully but lights and well pump. You will need to get rid of the hopper cooling and get a tank or radiator set up.
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Lets hope you did not fill they cylinder with diesel with all the priming of the injector. That will make it bounce! I suppose cranking a few revs decompressed and no fuel would blow a lot of excess out.
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I have a 195 and the first time I tried to start it this spring I found I needed 3 hands, one to hold down the decompressor lever, the other 2 to crank over the engine.
Oh, yeah, the other thing to look for is make sure you have the rack open, not closed. I know this from experience. :-[
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your going to have to have decent size cables and a good battery, mounted correctly and up close
i doubt you will ever get it to roll over with anything but really heavy duty cables and they best not be too long.
that engine will make 10kwe at 1500rpm without breaking a sweat
and i agree, i have no idea what the hand crank option is included for? one would have to be a pissed off gorilla to manage to start that engine even in hot climates.
bob g
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After reading these posts I am having an uh oh moment....The plan was for auto start on this project...I suppose I can rig up a solenoid to decompress to allow the starter to spin up automatically before the decompress closes...
Guess I need to find some short heavy duty battery cables. The ones I have are 5ft long, probably too long and not heavy enough, certainly better than the cheapo jumper cables I used. The battery is a 1000CCA that i purchased for cranking the Listeroid, which turns over like there is no compression, no spin up required.
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Yep, jumper cables won't do it. Not because the cables are not up to the task, but because you are trying to pull all that current thru the little sheetmetal teeth tips on the alligator clamps. I bet you were arc welding at those points:). You need a hard bolted terminal lug or terminal battery connection with large surface area to transfer any ammount of current. When I spin mine I hold the compression release and spin it up to full RPM before I drop the compression release. This saves wear on the starter as the stored momentum of the flywheel helps it pull thru.
A couple of failed starts could indeed have it nearly hydraulicilly locked with excess fuel in the cylinder and there may even be some remnants of shipping/storage lube oil in the cylinder. Next time you try, leave the fuel off, and spin it a little bit with the compression release open to try andd clear the cylinder before you try and start it...
After you get it running and broke in, you will probably be able to hand start it, but not very easilly when cold... Mine is pretty tough when cold, but not so bad when at a reasonable temperature...
Also wear hearing protection, that thing will sound like a barrel half full of hammers rolling down a hill when running:)
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my bet is 2/0 or 00 cables, with eyelets (as ronmar suggests) 6ft long or shorter
coupled with a good battery (your 1000cca battery qualifies) and you will find it will
roll over and start without messing with the compression release.
that release is really meant to be used with handcranking and unnecessary with the electric
starter provided you have enough battery and heavy enough cables.
and after it is broken in you can hand crank that beast, you are a much bigger man than i am.
that engine is basically every bit as big as the redstone, but has only one flywheel so hand cranking would be something one would only do in a life and death situation in my opinion
bob g
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I will have an update this weekend using heavy cables, should be interesting.
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when you make the connections, and if it still won't roll over without the compression release
then put a volt meter at the starter and measure the voltage getting to the starter terminals while cranking
if it drops below about 10volts you either have a bad or poorly charged battery or the cables and/or connectors are too light.
next check at the battery while cranking, if the voltage stays up above 10volts while cranking the battery is good enough in my opinion.
a good battery, heavy enough cables and connectors and you won't need to worry about the compression release in my opinion.
don't be fooled into thinking that because the voltage is dropping that you need to use the compression release to take the strain off the starter, low voltage kills more starters than just about anything other than over cranking/overheating. so get enough power to the starter and it will do what it was designed to do.
bob g
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Does anyone have suggestions for either a bolt on drive coupling or a source for a larger pulley for this beast ?
I have been searching for either a larger pulley, a serpentine or a direct coupling and have yet to find anything that would just bolt on. I would hate to have to go to a machine shop and get adapters made, but the stock v-belt pulley is small, less torque more slippage. I would like to be able to gear the RPM's down too via pulleys but will settle for a good direct connect coupling at 1800rpm just for reliability.
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This thread and not having the inclination to Muscle round the Roid to balance it, made me Dig out my little China Horizontal today. As soon as I got it out I remembered the biggest drawback with the thing was that Damned Pulley. I was thinking about trying to find some plate and get my brother in law to centre it up for me on his lathe so I can weld in a shaft and get him to put a 3/4 and 1" step in it.
I have some large faceplate like things off a lathe that I picked up from a scrap bin outside of a machine shop that are probably heavier then the original flywheel. I might talk to him about what these would need to bolt up to the flywheel and put the shaft on one of those.
Might be better to go somewhere and have them done, he's a fine machinist but I'd be lucky to get the things back by christmas....... next year.
I looked on some China engine sites and the only thing I found for those engines is the original flywheel and pulley. Not much good to you.
perhaps having a plate and shaft made to fit may be the easiest option for you?
While looking, I noted the starter motors on some slightly smaller machines. They were .7 KW.
Seems that even if your starter is double that, it shouldn't pull massive amounts of Current. The starter on my Merc was 3Kw and the one on my truck is only 2.7 and normal batteries and cables spin them up just fine.
Of course being a new engine everything is going to be tight so that may have an effect on the cranking effort.
My little engine hasn't got a great deal of hours on it but trying to turn it over today without the compression release was impossible no matter how slowly I tried to turn the flywheel and let the compression escape through the piston rings.
As I suspected might be the case, the injector pump was stuck, again, so I pulled that all apart, cleaned the gum out and got it firing again nicely. It was well and truly stuck this time and it proved hard to get apart especially the main plunger but all good now. Pressure pack $2 degreaser works great cleaning those pumps and gets everything moving again.
All part of the fun I suppose but I'll make sure to run the thing on engine or 2 stroke oil before I put it away again this time and drain the tank which is also gummed up.
Why do they put such useless fuel taps and tanks on Chinese engines?
All my china engines fuel caps leak as do the taps where fitted. I never fill the tanks as it gets shaken up and comes out to run all over the engine.
Pain in the Butt.
Same for me, I have hunted all over the Chinese sites, and it looks like either I need to have something made from scratch or have the existing pulley modified so I can put a coupling on it. I did a quick drawing / quote on emachineshop.com and it came out to $600 for a steel adapter, seems kind of pricey to me I will have to do a real drawing and check some local shops.
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I'm looking for a direct drive plate or stubshaft as well. I have previously contacted Randy Allmand, but he was not interested in doing a run unless it was a big order (10+ units). So, where do we find a decent priced unit?
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I did a quick drawing / quote on emachineshop.com and it came out to $600 for a steel adapter, seems kind of pricey to me I will have to do a real drawing and check some local shops.
Yeah, that is stupid for a plate and a shaft. The materials wouldn't be $20 so how many hours labour do they think it will take at what price? If they took an hour to do it they would be dragging the chain.
You'll definitely do better with some small local places.
Maybe because they don't have machinists who work directly on a piece of steel. A lot of shops nowadays expect to let computers do the work, so the setup costs are the same, regardless of one-off or many piece project.
I use a local machinist, 82 year old Korean war vet, not a computer anywhere in his shop. He made a new axle stub shaft for my Oliver baler, otherwise I was going to have to scrounge for a similar aged used part, for more than what I paid for the new machined part. He stays busy working 2 1/2 days a week, working on little projects.
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Good battery cables was the answer !
Installed a pair of 1ga battery cables and it fired up on the first compression stroke.
This thing is an absolute monster, very big and really kicks at start up, as it shut down, it was going to tear itself off the pallet, I had to hit the decompression as it was really hopping violently.
At a little higher rpm, probably around 1500 or so it smoothed out nicely.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R31ZxpoJZg&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
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Found this on Alibaba today:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/556718439/V_belt_Pulley_25cm_.html (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/556718439/V_belt_Pulley_25cm_.html)
10 inch v-belt pulley...this would certainly grab better and allow for lower rpm running...
But the description says material "asbestos & copper" thinking our customs would reject that.....
and this one:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/556717222/Flat_Pulley_25cm_.html
Minimum order, 2000 units.....
Pulleys for this thing is really bothering me, if I use the stock pulley, I would have to go one to one with the gen head and even then due to the small diameter of the pulleys it would seem prone to slipping and put undue load on the bearings of both the engine and gen head. It would seem even if going 1:1 I would want larger pulleys for less slippage and reduced load on the bearings.
With the stock pulley, overdriving the gen head is out because I cannot put a significantly smaller pulley on it. This means that I am stuck at 1:1 at 1800rpm, I would prefer to bring down the rpms a little, but it seems impossible without having custom pulleys made. Seems like if I go the custom pulley route, I might as well just go direct coupling....
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Good Find with the pulleys.
The company makes all sorts of engine parts so I assume they are describing head gaskets rather than the pulley material being copper and asbestos.
What you do for a couple of Pulleys is contact the manufacturer and say you are interested in importing the pulleys and want a couple of samples for product evaluation/ inspection etc.
Something like that should be able to be posted or couriered to you. Make sure you get a quote on postage first though.
A guy I know who was genuinely looking to import a container load of computer cases was talking to someone in china and they said well send you a sample of each of the 3 types we do for free if you agree to pay for freight. He said fine and thought he'd get them in a few weeks or so.
The cases turned up the next day, air freight from China!
I think the container full he bought of the things only cost him $10 more than the freight on those 3 sample cases!
It's interesting to see those pulleys fit all the engines from my baby 165F right through to the monsters. If the bolt pattern is good for transmitting 30Hp, i'm never going to have any trouble shearing them on my little 3 HP.
I think if you used 2 belts that would also help with the power transmission without over stretching the belt.
Thanks for starting this thread. It motivated me to drag my little horizontal out and I had a ball with it this afternoon. Coupled it up to a 4 Kw, 3 phase motor wired in Wye and with a Killawatt meter measured 1900 watts out of the thing. The little China was starting to smoke a bit it the last 150W but I touched the throttle governor and she sped right up and nearly blew the lights I had attached. Working hard but still more to go. Awesome little engine.
I found today a major source of the Noise in the thing is, like the roid, in the air intake. It has a proper housing with a paper filter but while it may provide clean air, it sure don't provide much in the way of noise suppression. I think I'll have to make up a manifold I can attach some hose to and feed it to a remote air filter box off a car.
Hopefully the plastic pipe itself won't transmit the intake noise. I have made a manifold for the exhaust as I didn't get one with it but I'll get an adaptor to upsize it to accommodate a car muffler. That ought to sooth the angry little beast a bit.
I'd so love one of those Horizontals in a big version. ;D
I'm still debating on what to do, I brought home the pulley that came with it, I am thinking to draw a replacement that has a 48mm keyed shaft, then I could use a coupling or use a sheave / pulley....
I only went big because I need the HP, it is really a beast, if I didn't need the hp I would certainly opt for a smaller one.
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An automobile muffler in the intake path might also go a long way to quieting the intake noise.
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Re: intake noise
I used one of these http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=soberg+fs+19p+150&op=search&Ntt=soberg+fs+19p+150&N=0&GlobalSearch=true&sst=All
It is a Solberg air compressor intake filter, FS-19P-150 and with an exhaust flange installed in place of the intake elbow, it screwed right on to my listeroid.
Most likely there is a larger size available for your bigger engine.
Made a very marked difference in intake noise. No rpm change under load with filter in place or removed........just a B I G reduction in intake noise.
I'm using a "pit-of-doom" set-up for the exhaust, so now it is just those noisy push rod/tappets/rocker arms.......................
Cheers,
Hugh
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Re: intake noise
I used one of these http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=soberg+fs+19p+150&op=search&Ntt=soberg+fs+19p+150&N=0&GlobalSearch=true&sst=All
It is a Solberg air compressor intake filter, FS-19P-150 and with an exhaust flange installed in place of the intake elbow, it screwed right on to my listeroid.
Most likely there is a larger size available for your bigger engine.
Made a very marked difference in intake noise. No rpm change under load with filter in place or removed........just a B I G reduction in intake noise.
I'm using a "pit-of-doom" set-up for the exhaust, so now it is just those noisy push rod/tappets/rocker arms.......................
Cheers,
Hugh
Thanks for that, just ordered one, found it on ebay for $39