Lister Engine Forum

Lister Engines => Petteroids => Topic started by: Halfnuts on June 16, 2006, 03:46:57 AM

Title: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: Halfnuts on June 16, 2006, 03:46:57 AM
Speaking of Petteroids, who's importing them these days? 

Seems a few folks are importing Listeroids, but I haven't seen anyone mention the Petteroids.  I have a freind who needs more reliable backup power for his server-farm than a few deep cycle batteries and UPSs can provide.  'Least that's the story he tells.  I think he just wants an engine to play with.

Halfnuts
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: ronsmith on June 16, 2006, 07:56:31 PM
Waggonner engine works, 60 to 90 day lead time WesternStar66@aol.com
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: Halfnuts on June 16, 2006, 08:08:25 PM
Thank you.  I'll have my friend contact him.

Halfnuts
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: DirtbikePilot on June 23, 2006, 03:57:29 AM
Eric at RMPS had a 6 hp air cooled petter for sale a while ago. He can always get more.
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: altopro on July 08, 2006, 03:25:24 AM
Halfnuts,

I have a 4HP Mini-Petter and a 12HP Petteroid.
These are in stock ready to ship.

The picture is of the Mini-Petter, the 12HP is just the same but bigger.
(http://www.altopro.ca/ebay/petter-type-4-1-a.jpg)

Pat
altopro.ca
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: Doug on July 08, 2006, 03:45:40 AM
How much for the 12hp Petter?
Bore, Stroke?
Who built them?
Full presure oiling with a gear pump ( including rod bearing and cam bushing? )
TRB or Bushing?
What fly wheels? several different weights depending on the aplication. Do these have a ring gear for a starter
Steel or Iron gears in the valve train?
Internal bipass filter or external spin on?
Do you include the flywheel adapter kits for direct drive shaft or pullies?
Are these ones rated for 1800 rpm?
 
Doug
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: altopro on July 09, 2006, 06:00:17 PM
Hello Doug,

I'm asking 1500$can. These are made by Kissan. We are Kissan's Canadian distributor. We are working directly with this manufacturer, not an exporter who would get his engines from the lowest bidder.

The 12HP Petter clone is still in the crate. I haven't opened the crate yet. I have only inspected and ran the 4HP mini-Petter, the quality and finish are good. It's obvious that Petters are a lot more popular than Lister in India thus all the efforts invested into quality to compete locally.

Here is what I know:
Bore 102mm, stroke 115mm, TRB bearings, 1500RPM, oil pump.
I know that the indians are pushing these to 1800RPM to make 60Hz generators.
No flywheel adaptor.
Manufactured Feb/06 (before the new EPA regualtion)

If you are interested, I could investigate more. What would you use it for?

Cheers,

PAT
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: Doug on July 09, 2006, 09:32:16 PM
I have an industrial customers looking for an water cooled engines. Petter AV types were originaly used for this purpose.
I've already talked to Kissan thanks. All their engines are rated for 1800 rpm ( That is the clones of the s AV2 ).
So if I understand you selling a standard TRB Petter long stroke.
Possibly with a piston oil pump right?
Possibly the general purpose light weight flywheel?
 
What made you choose this particular combination?

Doug
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: altopro on July 10, 2006, 06:46:40 PM
Doug,

No doubt, you are very knowledgeable about these engines. We need more guys like you on this forum.

Quote
What made you choose this particular combination?
It's a standard Petter clone. Unlike most dealers that mostly sell Listeroids, I ordered a few Petteroids.
The main reason was to study them and try to become as knowledgeable than you are.

Let me know your requirements, I'll be glad to work with you.

What do you call a light weight flywheel exactly?

PAT
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: Doug on July 10, 2006, 08:31:28 PM
Dependign on the aplication the weight ranges from 62 kg to 32 kg. Pumps sets don't need a high level of of speed regulation so they tend to be sold with the light light weight general purpose.
At this time I have a Petter on order same bore and stroke you have but mine was custom built for my aplication in mind. When the ship pulls in and I do some testing we can compare notes on the performance and emmisons if you like.
I'm not all that knowledgeable, I just did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions. FYI the 115 stroke length you ordered seems to be an Indian thing standard Petter AV2 series 1, 2 and 3 all had a 110 stroke length, I have the KOEL 116 cranks. Did you get full presure lube for the cam bearing and rocker box? Often you have to ask for this. The gear pump lubed engines offer a bypass filter, a further option on the spin on oil filter. Order the PTO kits these engines are almost useless with out them for anything other than belt drive off the flywheel ( note the hub adapter in this picture this allows you to bolt on one of 4 options flat belt drive, v belt drive and long and short key shafts. Get steel gears in the valve train if your going to run accessories like a water pump or alternator, I'm pushing my luck with this set up.
Other thoughts:

TBRs at these speeds are going to be noisy and I question the reliability.
Oil strainer in the Piston pump is esential useless.
Get the adjustable speed govener kit.
And if you order any more ask about the EPA compliance, I know new castings and pistons are already in production.

Doug
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: fattywagonman on July 12, 2006, 02:39:19 PM
My favorite petter is the 87.5 x 110 with TRB, external cam oiler and piston oil pump... a bypass oil filter on the cam oiler tube seems like a good idea..  I order all the engines with starter gears just in case someone wants to install a starter... I like the 87.5 size best because the bore is large enough to combust the fuel well but they don't seem to vibrate as much as the larger bore engines... I find them to run really smooth as long as they are run between 700 - 1200 RPM.. 4 HP seems like a reasonable output at this speed..  I think the large bore engines vibrate more due to the weight relationship of the crankcase cylinder assembly to the compression  / power output of the larger cylinder. If I needed more power I would go to a 2 cylinder.. I've noticed that my supplier uses a heavier flywheel and larger rod  on the 8-10 HP engines...  I have 2ea 10 HP engines equiped with starters with starters and 116mm stroke, gear oil pumps, and a couple of 8 HP's with starter gears on the flywheels  that I'd be willing to sell if anyone is interested. I'm in Sacto CA and would prefer not to ship them..
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: emerald on July 12, 2006, 07:09:35 PM
Altopro, how are those engines with regard to smoke when running?

I have yet to hear anyone say their engine clears up completely when running.

Some futher input on these engines would be useful.

Emerald
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: hotater on July 12, 2006, 07:25:54 PM
Emerald---

Just yesterday I was pumping water with my 3.5HP MP pumpset and noticed the smoke stopped when the upper outlet water hit 197F.   Boiling here is 199.

Warm it up and load it up and they run smoke free.....after break-in.  Mine took nearly 50 hours for that.
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: emerald on July 12, 2006, 07:51:05 PM
hotater, thanks for that I hope yours is the rule and not the exception.

Anyone else care to post their experiences with these engines. We really do not have much info on them in comparison to the CS clone. it is very useful to see what brands are working out the best and what the smoke problem is/could be when compared over several brands.

Emerald
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: hotater on July 12, 2006, 07:59:13 PM
Mine are Ashwamegh/Vijay Eng.,  and aside from the usual bad hoses and fuel storage parts and re-fitting and inspecting the entire engine, a la Listeroid, have been enjoyable engines.  I use the pump quite a bit.
  Mount them SOLID to a lot of concrete and the entire 'character' of the engine changes....into a solid, quiet-running little engine that I sometimes forget is working.  It  'seems' to  *make* fuel instead of use it.  VERY economical.
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: mobile_bob on July 13, 2006, 05:17:19 AM
personally and from my experience temp has everything to do with two things
breakin and smoking.

listeroids and petters are no exception

for instance big cam 1,2 and 3 cummins engines such as the 400 hp version of the 855ci, smoke like hell even new
or freshly overhauled when cold, and don't get really clean until they are up to around 185 degrees or more.
when i say smoke i mean raw fuel, like smoke up half of arkansas, smokey

they would do that even after breakin, mainly because of the fact that they were a relatively low compression engine.

you have to get them hot, get them up to 190 or so and i would expect them to settle down and clean right up.
i certainly would not worry about a petteroid that smoked when not up to temperature.

bob g
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: fattywagonman on July 13, 2006, 02:42:52 PM
Hi Emrald,
IMO The mini petters smoke because the combustion cup is just too small for a DI engine... yes they will usually clean up when the engine is hot... this is because the fuel that is being squirted onto the cup of the piston begins to vaporize and combust..  I'd suggest a standard petter and not a mini.. they start much easire and are really nice little engines..  the 87.5 mm bore works well with DI.. if you want it to run even better consider the piston mods I've posted pictures to.. If you run it at 1200 RPM or less a couple of rubber mounts is all you will need.. not a slab of concrete.. I'd suggest belt driving to a 3600 RPM generator.. here's a link to some video of one running on veggie oil.... notice there's not much smoke.. 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3798179569961011191
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: Doug on July 27, 2006, 05:28:11 AM
Hey look here

http://www.poweranand.com/diesel_engine1.htm

The electric start Petter.... is mine with the shipping crate cropped and cut out.

Hope the ship its on turns up soon.

Doug
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: emerald on October 09, 2006, 09:31:24 PM
Thought I would give this subject a shake again and see have any new tales on these engines come up since the summer.

Good or bad, lets hear em.

Cold starting on veg oil would be a interesting topic too.


Emerald
Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: Doug on October 10, 2006, 04:18:53 PM
Its a very slow process....
I don't have the time to do a lot at once but here is a quick run down of recent work.

Indian paint doesn't stick well so chemical strippers are only needed on some pieces.

Spare head is stripped cleaned and ready for decking.

Spare rocker box has been stripped cleaned ( casting flash, loose ect polishign parts as needed )
Decompressor was missing an O ring that seaks the arm to the box...

All parts are being ground glass beaded and painted inside with Glyptal 1201 and outside with Cat touch up paint.

So far...

Head near completion.
Rocker box done
Valve cover done
Push rod cover done
Intake, exhaust done
All flanges done
Oil filter cover, service cover done
All line fittings, brackets, accessories done

Things found and don't like:
Lots of metal shavings clung to the magnets in the oil pick up.
Human hair in the rocker assembly and wrapped around push rods.
Dirt grit everywhere, bearing and the journals are probably scratched.
A few tripped bolts and a miss match on the intake port.
Poor preperation of surfaces before painting.

Things I found and do like:
Acceptable machining and surfaces
Generaly acceptable, to suprisingly nice castings.
Excelent quality replacement parts like bearings, gaskets, chrome face rings
Nicely machined and very tough looking crank ( with issue I am getting clarification from form Anand more on this later ).

Thats where we stand

Doug


Title: Re: Who's Importing Petteroids?
Post by: Doug on October 16, 2006, 03:06:23 AM
There are parts and then there are parts.....

Whats inside my Petter and what was shipped are quite a bit diffrerent as far as finnishing goes. The good stuff is inside usuable stuff is in the crates.

This brings to light an interesting question. If you can get a builder to make an engine with hand picked parts you might get a gem if you just ask for an engine what are you getting?

More of the parts are getting stripped and cleaned this week so I'll post some pictures of "parts" and what my builder calls a premium engines internal parts.

Anand also claims this engine ran for 3 hours on the test stand before being accepted. This sounds about right from what I've seen inside. I think its important if your going to buy an engine or have one built for you that you ask the right questions and take your time before commiting.

Three points I would like to see adressed on Petteroids:
Full flow oil filtration needs to be addressed.
More attention to using selected castings and forgings.
Cleaner assembly and better finnishing practices so nothing is in there before it runs and less goop on the outside with a properly done paint.

Doug