Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Lister Based Generators => Topic started by: OneStep on November 24, 2012, 10:45:12 PM
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Ok, I pulled the outlet boxes and removed the end cap. Here is the insided.
I hope some of yall will be able to help identify what brand of head this is, no plate or sticker.
Its a generator wound armature w 3 slip rings, 4 big field coils and 1 unused wire in the outlet box.
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=7642)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=7717)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=7719)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=7721)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=7723)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=7725)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=7727)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=7729)
Lister Sr1 green paint under the yellow.
The adapter is red under the yellow.
Head is just primer it was said to be 4kw
Any and all information is appreciated.
OS
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(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7717&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7719&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7721&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7723&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7725&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7727&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7729&g2_serialNumber=1)
Sometimes this works and second try
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it might be a winco head
they made rotating armature machines long after most others quit doing so
bob g
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(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7644&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7638&g2_serialNumber=2)
Forgot to do the overall pics.
So far i haven't found pics of a head that matches, Winco's of old have a different end cap
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Hello Bob G You were almost spot on, Winpower a sister company of Winco.
I was hipped up and google and have found this and its smaller but very similar and a good fan.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59763
Now if i can get some model numbers and such i can start looking for books and parts.
OS
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We have not been able to get anything for the obsolete Winpower built equipment for quite some time. :(
We might have a couple of units in the Alaska scrapyard but I won't be able to look until next summer.
dieselgman
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Winco still offers quite a bit of old literature and you may be able to narrow down your search simply by looking through their documents.
http://www.wincogen.com/Winco_downloads.html#servicefiles (http://www.wincogen.com/Winco_downloads.html#servicefiles)
I hope this helps...
dieselgman
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If the price is right I would be very interested. But its Alaska too.
Thanks to Moteurdelco
I found a posting here, 2 really. I am on a tractor forum that has a classic view and a modern view.
The 2 posts here have some of the same posters saying the same thing. Neither showed up in any of my searches here.
Found through google. early (classic) and late (modern) Nov 2006.
He has a SR1 winpower 4kw CM4L4A with a high serial number
I finally found the winpower download section but not much info, got a general operation manual, Installation manual, serial number info 67-71 and a price list from 1981 this one is not on it starts at 5k. Except for dc units.
ST1 5k head in 81 was 1045.00
But even with this info I am not finding much googling.
I did find a gas genset, cast iron briggs or T, starter generator engine with a 3.75 winpower
Too high too far but it looks nearly New and has the id plate. And the big outlet /control box.
I recalled incorrectly this does have 4 field coils. I recalled it only has 2.2k output.
But if it was set up for 110 only and i have a extra 10ga wire?
I don't recall if it was tested for 220v?
But in the long run i may bee better off finding a replacement head.
The engine will last a long time and is rebuild-able but...
So any suggestions would be appreciated
OS
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If she works, run her... if she's broke, move on to the next candidate.
dieselgman
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True and that is the plan.
But i would like to get all the information for repairing and maintaining it.
And planning for a replacement when it dies is wise.
OS
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Well just got a email with a pdf of the parts list ( at least partial ) and some wiring diagrams from Dale Riebel at winco.
At least i have a better chance if i have to go poking around inside her.
I would like to plan for the worst, ie what will interchange and or what i can convert onto it. and what would be needed.
I am trying to talk to stationaryengineparts.com about there SAE bell housing adapter flange.
Close coupling of a 2 bearing generator head but they seem to know nothing about it except they sell 3 sizes??
Anybody know anything about or have experience with this or something like it?
Thanks
OS
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Hi,at last i am registered.
I have the identical machine head as well,if i can help in any way let me know.
From the looks of your wiring on the head end it all looks the same as mine but you mentioned inside the box there is a wire not used? can u elaborate?
Gary
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Yea ant that a nightmare, registration
This is what it should look like(http://images.craigslist.org/3E23G63o25Ib5H25J2cbm285bb43d757f1c50.jpg)
When the boxes were recreated apparently they only wanted 120v and wired one side only.
Its a 3 wire head, a,b,c. a n b is 120, b n c is 120, a n c is 240 with b neutral.
On mine b n c are unused or c unused. It was a custom setup, wrong but that is the way the Org Owner had it.
OS
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I fitted a 5 kw 2 bearing Chinese ST head to a Lister ST1 to replace 4.5 Kva close coupled Brush alternator damaged in a fire, I removed the ST head front plate, turned a register, drilled 4 holes to match the Brush dimensions and replaced the taperlock bush in the Lovejoy coupling. The ST front cover was so badly cast and thin that only a 2mm register was possible after truing up the cover. The ST1 has the same dimensions as your SR1 so this is one route for you.
Mark.
Anybody know anything about or have experience with this or something like it?
Thanks
OS
[/quote]
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Mine is wired 120/240 the pictures were taken before being completed
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Hu
Mine has 4 wires ,the wires are labeled-120, L1,L2 and N
120 and N for 120 v
L1 and L2 plus N for 240v
works fine,dont know if its correct
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Ok I may be wrong.
I pulled the box so i could remove the cover for pic. and noticed the 1 wire taped off.
Just finished Red Koteing the fuel tank, even found a pin hole when scrubbing the inside.
I remember reading its 3 wire.
I looked at the 2 wiring diagrams i got from winpower. 1 is 4 wire marked 125v,L1,L2 and n.
1 is 3 wire marked L1,L2 and n
I also got a winpower GM308w4a GE 308w7, twins to ours except on a 1800rpm 7.2hp gas engine 3.8kw that are 4 wire.
I haven't studied them but will check closely on that 3 wire.
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I would be interested in those schematicts, how can i get a copy?
I was able to post some pics of mine in the Photo Gallery before final painting and wiring of boxes
my email is posted in my profile
Gary
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Gary check your email.
Gary you do make a nice looking engine. I see you have the 25mt starter and need a fan too.
What paint did you use?
I wonder how many original outlet boxes survived?
Millman
My mind has been leaning in that direction, But its been a long long time since i saw the insides. I know the armature is a tapered. Was yours or did you convert with stub shaft coming off the flywheel? Or is a ST1 Lister different?
Wouldn't happen to have pics of the process?
I imagined the possible need for a reinforcing plate inside the ST head, Never had my hands on one yet but have seen a pic of the bearing retainer. Truing it does have me worried as i don't have a machine shop handy.
I am about to make a decision on buying a couple 15hp diesel engines to build a gen set with for sale.
7.5 or 10kw ST heads?
F (DIN 70020) 11,4 kW (15,5 HP)
IFN-ISO (DIN 6271) 11,0 kW (15,0 HP)
ICFN-ISO (DIN 6271) 9,9 kW (13,5 HP) @3000
The lowest graph says 11.5 hp @2350rpm but i got to look up those standards
No specs but saw pic of same engine on a factory 120/240 genset @3600rpm?
But i start cleaning up the tank and mounts so i can reinstall, and try to fire up the Lister before the weekend is over.
Decent weather in south Mississippi this weekend.
OS
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It was a three month project and it took 2 parts machines to complete ,the ugly machine on the pallet with the gen head is what i started with ,color is Hunter Green,it is a tapered stub shaft shaft off the flywheel and the generator through bolt holds it all together.
Next time(?) i will start with a complete machine. By the way our machines have internal oil lines different from most and allow with the correct bango fittings an external oil filter,i made a workaround and when i got the 2nd parts machine it had the same thing=the workaround! i can post pictures of what i am talking about because in my search for the bango fitting no one knew what i was talking about as it was an option that pretty much was rare.
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Yea the Purolator. I would like to examine a spin on set up.
My parts book shows both but its unclear.
Been wondering how to tap in for a oil pressure gauge.
But thinking about a different by pass filter set up.
OS
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On yours where the cap is and with center the bolt removed can be an oil presure hookup
i have added pictures in the gallery,nothing close up but you can get the idea
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I dont understand the starter ,you mention an 25mt needing a fan? i have two and neither has a fan?
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When a SR1 is equipped with a Delco starter, its a 10mt, like a Hyster fork lift. common car starter size.
The 25mt is a diesel starter common on all small to med 4cyl John Deere diesels and many other, Over kill on this 6hp engine.
Look at the commutator end on my head, the aluminum fan on the end of the shaft 1/2 of the fan blades are broken off (http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7729&g2_serialNumber=1)
This is needed for cooling. I didnt notice any on yours.
Its in the parts break down i sent.
I will try to find/ make something. Don't need the gen head getting hotter than it has to.
OS
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Millman
My mind has been leaning in that direction, But its been a long long time since i saw the insides. I know the armature is a tapered. Was yours or did you convert with stub shaft coming off the flywheel? Or is a ST1 Lister different?
Wouldn't happen to have pics of the process?
I imagined the possible need for a reinforcing plate inside the ST head, Never had my hands on one yet but have seen a pic of the bearing retainer. Truing it does have me worried as i don't have a machine shop handy.
No specs but saw pic of same engine on a factory 120/240 genset @3600rpm?
OS. it sounds as if yours is a single bearing set, the c/shaft extension register and PCDs are identical on standard STs and SRs so one option is to bolt a 2 bearing alt to your SR using a parallel c/shaft extn and a coupling, the one I repaired was a 2 brg to start with. If you look on my album there are before and after photos of it.
The front cover was faced up true to the machined back side to enable a 2mm male register to be cut, this locates the alt concentrically to the engine adapter, there did not seem any point in any fancy reinforcing of the inside although I did use some load spreading washers on the 4 bolts. The AVR controlled Chinese ST head is not a patch on the Brush 4.5 Kva it replaced, for holding voltage or anything else. SR1 @ 3600 rpm? Not long for this life at that speed methinks, ST1s sound grim at 3000.
Mark.
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Boy I feel stupid ,i confused the starter and fan as one
I do have the fan it just wasnt on the head when i test ran it
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Gary
Ahh I just didn't use a comma. Wouldn't happen to have 2 fans?
It would be a pain to get geared up to do castings. And should it be angled?
Millman I searched for you name and nothing cam up.
Yes the factory winpower head is a 1 bearing.
No specs but saw pic of same engine on a factory 120/240 genset @3600rpm?
This is referring to a 15hp diesel engine i am looking at buying
OS
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OS, search the gallery for PICT0705 and PICT0810, before and after photos of the ST1 set.
Mark.
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Ahaa! Makes a nice package.
No pics of the insides? Well the adapter on mine is different anyway.
Interesting muffler, Know what kind it is?
OS
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No pics of the isides, possibly a Kubota muffler, bought a job lot of them.
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I will have to do some looking, looks nice enough and not as big or plane as a tractor muffler yet bigger than a pepper can and suggests quieter too.
OS