Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Lister Based Generators => Topic started by: bandmiller2 on July 21, 2012, 09:35:20 PM
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Guys I'd like your input on a couple of matters.As most know I have an air cooled ST-1 Lister direct coupled to a ST-10 gen head,that will be used as a standby unit,no real close neighbors.I am building a sound deadening shed with a poured concrete pedistal for the engine should the heavy welded base be bolted directly to the concrete or should I have some rubber between the base and the concrete.??Second whats the best practical exhaust system,I'am running it outside with flex pipe wrapped with fiberglass tape,common muffler or something in the ground.?? Thank You Frank C.
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Run that little ST on rubber vibration dampeners, or bolt to a timber. Automotive style muffler will do fine. We have seen barrels buried in the ground for the purpose where sound is an issue.
dieselgman
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My 12/1 is on rubber dampeners when first installed 4 was not enough or they were in the wrong place and the frame was sitting on the concrete the vibration was felt in the floor and building. After adding more near engine all is smooth.
Mike
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Or bolt it to concrete and set the concrete on rubber... My 6/1 is on a steel frame bolted to a 1300# concrete block which is resting on rubber stall matting about 3/4" thick. Contains the thump pretty well and raises the generator up a little over a foot to make it easier to hand start and work on...
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raises the generator up a little over a foot to make it easier to hand start and work on...
Nice wrinkles.
Casey
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Heres a fire damaged one I rebuilt with an ST5 alternator, on load trial, fitted wth 6 isolating bobbins it jumped about, reverted to 4 and its fine.
Mark. (http://PICT0705[img)PICT0810[/img]
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[imghttp://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?][/img]
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Derr!!!! failed again, anyway the images are in my gallery.
Mark.
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So the purpose of the rubber mounts is to keep the vibration "thump" from transfering to the floor.Always thought it was to lessen the strain on the engine and its base.I have some of the pads they put under heavy machinery about 3/4" should that do the trick under the welded engine/gen mount.?? Thanks Frank C.
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Frank, you have to have the right amount of resilience in the mounts if too stiff the base jumps about, too sloppy and the set jumps about, there is a science to it but I just make an educated guess, the sets tend to wobble a bit when running up to speed and when slowing down also things change a bit from unloaded to loaded conditions. The set in the photos doesn`t move around at all.
Mark.
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Frank, my KOEL 8/1 project thread under engines has hit this debate as well. My set while building was sliding on the shop floor when I would test run. When I put a rubber mat under it it wanted to hop, hop, hop.
If you have too much rubber the thing will be pulling up on your anchors following each power stroke. Not something you want.
My wood blocks seem to be taming her nicely (see my vid in that thread).
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I'am thinking of four to six hockey pucks, center drilled, and half set in cement to support the welded frame on the concrete pedistal.If I don't have to put the rubber directly under the engine and gen. that would be good as the couplings are already aligned.Has anyone used hockey pucks.?? thanks Frank C.
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Bolt it directly into one ton of concrete just as RA Lister recommended,
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd170/camillitech/StartoMatic_0001.jpg)
Do NOT rubber mount it and certainly do NOT mount it on a railway sleeper.
RA Lister stipulated solid concrete bases for all there generating plant that was to be run for an extended period for a very good reason. Flexible mounts means broken exhausts, failed electrics and work hardened copper wiring that will snap.
Rubber/flex/wooden mounts are only for in boats where there is no other option, mains failure sets that run infrequently or shipping containers and other moveable structures.
Don't believe me, just check out the manuals, OK, I know there will now be a deluge of folk telling me how 'damn fine splendid' there flexible mounts are but I know a guy in his sixties that served his time with RA Lister in Scotland before branching out on his own. All he does is go around remote highland estates and islands fixing and installing Lister generator sets and he's been doing it for forty years.
He once told me that his 'bread and butter' was fixing wiring problems caused by flexible mounts and railway sleepers.
Think about it chaps, why would they specify tons of concrete if a few rubber mounts would do the job.
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd170/camillitech/210211037Small.jpg)
This is my old ST2 running with a pound coin on the rocker cover, loosen any one of the mounting bolts just one quarter of a turn and it will fall over.
I see yours is for a standby set Frank so you may well get away with rubber, but long term you're just asking for trouble. Remember these engines were designed to run 24/7 and that's what they'll do if mounted correctly.
Cheers, Paul
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"Think about it chaps, why would they specify tons of concrete if a few rubber mounts would do the job."
Maybe R.A. Lister had secret investments in all the concrete plants in England. :P ::) ;D
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"Think about it chaps, why would they specify tons of concrete if a few rubber mounts would do the job."
Maybe R.A. Lister had secret investments in all the concrete plants in England. :P ::) ;D
;D ;D ;D and Scotland ;)
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Paul, what would the "Listertex anti vibration mountings" as per the note on the arrangement drawing, be made from? :D
Mark.
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Morning Mark,
that will be Lister's own 'rubberized concrete' ;D
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd170/camillitech/240712049Small.jpg)
Here's one on my skid mounted HR2 but believe me, were it not for the dry sump arrangement with hi capacity oil tank underneath it would be getting bolted solidly to Scotland ;)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd170/camillitech/240712051Small.jpg)
As per my SR2
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd170/camillitech/240712055Small.jpg)
and SR1, dunno why Photobucket turned that ???
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd170/camillitech/240712050Small.jpg)
or that.
They do have there place but it is in ships, portable installations and upstairs floors in banks and shopping malls at the expense of reliability. My HR2 as already broken a starter solenoid wire at 3000h and will probably break the exhaust flexible coupling at some point. The SR2 has sat there since 1969 without a single cracked exhaust or broken wire. The ST2 that sat on the SR2 mounts did the same for fifteen years as my main power source, running 6 to 8n hours daily.
I know, I have a real 'bee in my bonnet' about this and my engineering background would have always gone for rubber mounts until meeting, and getting to know Mr Lister of Scotland himself. A man that really is a 'legend in his own lifetime' in these parts.
Sorry to keep 'banging on about it', ::) Paul
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Morning Paul,
No need to be sorry about whats right for you, using generators for your only source of power means you quickly find out whats best for yourself regarding reliability/expediency ( I have run a small processing plant and repair workshop off grid since 1986 ) , bolting down to concrete allows rigid pipe work to be used but at the expense of instalation costs and convenience, isolating mounts unless all items are attached to the set ( which on a single cyl Lister brings more problems ) neccesitate flexible connections which as you say are prone to breakage, having said that, once every 2000 hours is tolerable to me.
Mark.