Lister Engine Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DRDEATH on August 07, 2010, 02:40:21 PM
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This is kind of off the wall but I thought I would post here for guidence. I have a 1999 GMC 4 x 4 1 ton truck. Other than the paint it is in great shape. It has a 454 in it and I would like to change it for either a GMC diesel or a Dodge Cummins diesel. Who out there has any knowledge about this? Also is there any problems with Big Brother ( government ) in doing something like this. The reason for this is I have an unlimited supply of UMO to burn. Thanks, DD
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I have been out of the loop for quite a few years but generally there is a penalty for modification of any emission control system on a motor vehicle. Any engine change, even for an identical one required notification. Any change in the fuel also required notification and I believe re inspection for safety. A lot of people simply did it and took their chances and few ever got caught unless they were being watched because of other nuisances the were being to the Ministry of Transport. Of course any accident that could be remotely connected with the work done, would void insurance. This is in Canada but probably pretty similar in the US.
I think more often diesels were swapped out to gas engines at least in Ford and GM trucks. Chrysler were more dependable as diesels though there are lots of loyal Ford and Gm diesel fans. Generally you can find more ready made components if you keep the swap within the same Brand. Watch the weight closely and strength of front end components if you consider the Cummins. My son had one and it pounded heck out of front suspensions.There can be lots of little details sorting out linkages for throttle and clutch, guage compatibilty, radiator and exhaust connections and the availability or lack of vacuum for brake assist on a diesel.
Resale value is about zero on anything like that.
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Got an emissions testing program? Got problems.
In Washington state; it would be pretty tricky or maybe impossible. In the state of Hawaii; Who cares, be happy.
Casey
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Sounds like it was not such a good idea. I guess I will look for a Dodge. THANKS
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For alternative fuels (UMO, WVO etc.) for reliability reasons, I'd be inclined to stick with the Chevy 6.5 or the Ford pre-powerstroke ('93 and earlier (and a few '94)).
I run the WVO in my '95 GMC Suburban with the 6.5 TD. Not super powerful compared to the Cummins, but cheap, and don't mind the thicker fuels.
I just prefer the IDI motors for the thicker fuels.
YMMV
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I just had another thought. The transmission is computer controlled. You would need a computer controlled 6.5 to send the correct signals to shift properly. I'd abandon the whole idea due to the nightmares involved.
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I just finished changing out the 1.3L gas engine in the suzuki samurai to a 1.6L vw turbo diesel.
When I drove it in tho the emissions test center they took one listen (didn't open the hood) asked if it was diesel and tested it as that. No more questions asked.
Here all diesels must blow 30% Opacity (I think they made that word up) or less in order for it to pass.
I live in the lower mainland of BC and we have Aircare (emissions test)
Check with where you live. Around here there are quite a few engine swaps going on.
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Smoke Opacity Monitor
http://www.preferredinstruments.com/index.php?id=51&p=PGRP-00000044
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Hi westcoaster,
How screaming difficult was it to convert.
Are you one of the machine shop masters that hang around this site and make the rest of us feel like pinkie painters? (Finger Painting is a full two year degree step up for some of us.)
Did you use a kit?
In Washington state, USA they know what you have when they scan the VIN. In Hawaii, No problem bra; No testem.
Casey
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I have a 92 dodge 3/4 ton with the 12 valve Cummins in it...great truck...typical issues....great mileage. www.cumminsforum.com
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loads of stuff on 6.5 diesel on these 2 sites. Dieselpage.com a fee to join but books and CD'S on the mods you need to do. dieselplace.com Huge site with all you may need if your good at searching and have time.
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Westcoaster,
Where did you get the adapter plate or do you have plans to share?
I've got and 85 Samurai I'd like to put an old Jetta non turbo into, is it worth the trouble?
Regards
RF
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I think I want a dodge now. http://www.wimp.com/pickuptruck/ I wouldn't care if it didn't get good fuel milage. DD
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I think I want a dodge now. http://www.wimp.com/pickuptruck/ I wouldn't care if it didn't get good fuel milage. DD
Isn't it interesting what oil money can do..................... ::) ::)
Billswan
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I think this guy must be related to the guy who builds his own islands. I think we should all ask for our share of the truck... DD
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I just traded my 95 Tahoe - loved that truck - for a 2001 VW Bug in Yellow, getting 5.9l/100 km... verses 14l/100lm
Starting a new job cross town, and need something to drive that is cheap to run... so far I enjoy the bug, still have a Chev 1/2 ton for work and the Z28 with a crate motor for days I want to piss off PETA... oh yeah and the HOG
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I think I want a dodge now. http://www.wimp.com/pickuptruck/ I wouldn't care if it didn't get good fuel milage. DD
That's a very young Jeremy Clarkson....
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OK so I found a 2000 or 2001 Ford 1 ton 4x4 with manual locking hubs and diesel engine. It is a cab and chaise. Anyone with any experience in using WMO or WVO in these engines. It only has 160,000 miles so I would guess that is not bad. It would be close to straight trade. I will have to kick in some. I have not drove it but I am told it is in good shape. DD
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OK so I found a 2000 or 2001 Ford 1 ton 4x4 with manual locking hubs and diesel engine. It is a cab and chaise. Anyone with any experience in using WMO or WVO in these engines. It only has 160,000 miles so I would guess that is not bad. It would be close to straight trade. I will have to kick in some. I have not drove it but I am told it is in good shape. DD
You better check out the fuel injection system my son in-law owns a truck like that and just had to put injectors into it because of water in the fuel. It cost 3200$. Each injector is it's own unit and there was a frame mounted pressure pump that also was bad. Some type of common rail with each injector electrically triggered. So not sure of exact year but it was one of those you mentioned. Great truck good mileage but not so sure if it would run on high concentrations of veggie or other oils. Buyer be ware.
Billswan
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I agree with Bill. That truck is a powerstroke engine. Great engines, but not so good for alternative fuels. I'd stick with an older IDI engine, such as the earlier mentioned 6.5/6.2 GM or 1994 and earlier Ford (pre powerstroke).
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Brett I should have checked here before I sent my last email. Sorry I am really not crazy just confused. LOL Mike
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Mike, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you cant veg/wmo a powerstroke, just that it's more likely to give you grief. The newer engines (powerstroke, duramax, cummins 24v) operate on MUCH higher injection pressures, tighter tolerances, and directly inject onto the piston. These all require your fuel to be SUPER clean, and to atomize finer in the combustion chamber, or you will have issues with carbon build up, and worn injection pumps/injectors. The parts to replace are MUCH more expensive when they do go. That is why I am so sold on the older (granted less powerful) IDI engines. The initial purchase price is usually lower, they are more tolerant of less than perfect fuels, and repair costs are lower.
Hope I'm not coming across as a know-it-all.
-Brett
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Brett I sent you an email asking the same questions that you had already answered in the earlier thread. That was what I was talking about being crazy or confused. I guess if I want to run mixed fuel I will have to continue to look. I may just bite the bullet and make the trade and plan on not mixing fuel or if I do make sure it is a small percentage and darn clean. The Ford looked pretty good. I did look on craigs list and found plenty of GMC trucks. What year should I stick to if I go that route. Mike
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GM used the 6.5 till around 2000, and started the duramax in 2001 (I may be off by a year one way or the other). So, GM till 2000, or Ford till '94 (changeover year, as some were 7.3 IDI, and some were powerstroke later in the year) If you find a good deal on a dodge with the cummins, I think '97 and earlier with the 12 valve engine used a more robust injection pump and can tolerate alternative fuels better, but they were still a direct injection engine.
Clear as mud yet?
-Brett
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the early 6.5 gm and some fords used the Stanadyne DB2- 4911 series mechanical pump for the KISS Princable that is most practical as long as you add lub for the pump fuel sold now.
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forgot to add- new bosch injectors $30.00 each.( india mfg.) rebuilt pump $400.00 + shipping Ebay out of texas arizonia. They have around 5k miles and working great, except the one injector that I cracked the return line upon install it spewed out its life blood at 1k the best of the 120k injectors is in its place. A puff of smoke and a stumble and the 340k engine runs like a top no smoke and lots of power! It is a k2500 92 chevy longbed 4:10 axel. avg14 mpg light and 9 mpg loaded to the gills. Simular to the GMC accept the GMC added washers to the bolts when assembling ;D
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Westcoaster,
Where did you get the adapter plate or do you have plans to share?
I've got and 85 Samurai I'd like to put an old Jetta non turbo into, is it worth the trouble?
Regards
RF
Well that was awful freaking rude of me!
Left all you folks dangling because I forgot all about this thread...
http://www.acmeadapters.com/
I'm far from a machine shop wizard. Jeff's product is top shelf. I bought the adapter kit used with another samurai and I still got the same tech support as the origional owner AND the same warranty if something breaks.
The 1.6TD has been in the samurai now for about a year. It's a very nice LITTLE power upgrade. The turbo carries you up grades that would have had the 1.3 falling flat on it's face.
Looking at the engine last night it appears as the headgasket has gone and is leaking coolant between the block and head. Between the well known head gasket issues and the fact this is an interferance engine I have to say the 1.6 is a little "fragile"
I had the engine "rebuilt" by Gordon's VW in Langley. Dang thing just never ran right from day one. I gave up trying to get all it's little issues sorted out and just started driving the snot out of it. I think I'm going to be forced into doing something with the headgasket though...