Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: Speed on March 04, 2010, 08:46:29 PM
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Hey guys, been lurking here for quite a while and finally decided to get an account post up. Great information and very informative posts by everyone! That said, I'm starting to wonder if perhaps it's not time to look to other platforms for my purposes. For me, my wife and I are build a new house on 10 acres and I have dreams of going off grid. Sure, I love the idea of saying bye to big energy, getting carbon neutral burning fuels made from recycled oils, and saving ubteen thousands in energy bills. And while none of the above is likely to become a 100% reality, the bottom line is I'm a life long diy'er and tinkerer who is going to spend time and money toward a hobby, and home generation sounds like good fun. Thus I found my way to the old lister engines and this forum. The thought of having one of these old engines chugging away in the back of my shop helping to power everything and creating a melody I could tape and sell as a sleep aid is awesome.
There in lies the problem. I can't seem to find one! The EPA has stopped the import of the indian copies and it seems like the chances are greater for me to build a fusion reactor than find an original. I'm not desperate or anything as we are only now breaking ground on the house, let alone the shop where the old lister will reside. But I fear if complete machines are this hard to find, parts availability will start to dry up, and eventually the machine will become unmaintainable. I've been scanning craiglist, ebay, various forums, and randomly on google. As of late, I've been looking to some other options but before I give up on finding an old grandfather clock, does any one know where one might find one of these old girls laying around?
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They are still avail, you just have to know where to look and be prepared to pay for shipping, you will not find one at Pep boys or Canadian Tire
But they are avail, post a Want add here, buy a real one and ship it over from the UK...
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Get desperate ;D if you are just breaking ground on an off grid homestead, you will want power asap for cutting the forms for the footings. I used my 6/1 st5 combo on skids during construction and powered the whole job with it from beginning to end. It is much more pleasant to work around than the 3600 rpm screamers the contractors have and will cost you less than 1/2 the fuel. Contractors around here charge extra for building sites with no grid power.
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I'm a lister twin owner and occasional off grid-er. My 20/2 is not a great engine, with all sorts of mechanical and design issues. I don't believe all the hype anymore. It's simply a low cost, clunky engine, made with sub standard parts. It's my opinion that the 6/1 is the ideal listeroid. AND, even then, the best of us don't get 40,000 hours between overhauls. 5000 hours between proper and comprehensive overhauls may be a great place to start. (yes, some here get more time, right up to failure at 6000-8000 hours). Therefore I stand by my 5000 hour mark.
I spent a year blueprinting my engine. And it still produces uneven power, flickering lights, does not hold frequency well and I still question it's reliability. Don't get me wrong. It's a really cool engine that I don't mind feeding used motor oil, olive oil. jet fuel, waste veggie oil or diesel fuel. Plus it's fun to play with. My point is simply that a modern engine is a more reliable point to start from. Along with all the advantages of a modern governor and proper speed control and start up/shut down capabilities.
(http://www.cujet.com/assets/images/lister_resize.jpg)
(http://www.cujet.com/assets/images/finished_resized.jpg)
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Speed
What area of the country do you live in?
Billswan
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If you want a 16/2 Diesel Electric has one, or did have one a few days ago. They expect to have a new shipment of 8/1s at theKansas location in a couple months, one of which I will own. ;)
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cujet: I've heard the twins are more prone to problems than the singles are. I'm kind of in the same boat you are in that I'm a life long tinkerer and really want one because their cool. Actually, my plans have shifted a bit in that the electric coop we are moving into has become much much more sustainability friendly starting 2010. They are giving decent rebates for geothermal installs and offer net metering which saves me the off-grid battery expenses. I really like the idea of a lister for the fun factor and at this point, using it for backup rather than the John Deere gasser I have right now even if I am going to go on the grid. Plus it would be fun to spin the meter back to zero on old veggie. You did mention modern engines; do you have some more info (types of engines, etc)?
billswan and 38ac: I live in Oklahoma so I'm pretty near those guys. They were going to get the call as soon as I had facilities stood up. ;) Heard anything good or bad about there engines?
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Well there you go Speed turns out you might not be too far from a dealer!
If you were on the east coast I was going to recommend a fellow in Maine but the freight from there would be lots more than from Kansas.
But beware these engines may be fun to work with but cleaning up a dirty poorly assembled and poorly machined roid can tax a person. You might be biting off more than you think.
In other words I vote with cujet! And suggest you reread his post!
Buyer beware :o
Billswan
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Well there you go Speed turns out you might not be too far from a dealer!
If you were on the east coast I was going to recommend a fellow in Maine but the freight from there would be lots more than from Kansas.
But beware these engines may be fun to work with but cleaning up a dirty poorly assembled and poorly machined roid can tax a person. You might be biting off more than you think.
In other words I vote with cujet! And suggest you reread his post!
Buyer beware :o
Billswan
Thanks Billswan. It's the buyer beware part I'm a bit worried about. I'm not worried too much about tearing a roid apart and cleaning casting sand out and such but the part I'm worried about, and to your point, is getting something that is crap to start with. I am after an engine that's serviceable even if it requires some elbow grease to get there. Does anyone know which roid the Diesel Electric guys are selling? I've read that the twins have problems vs the singles in the past as well so I might just stick with a twin. As I understand it, the only difference between a 6/1 and 8/1 is the speed they run at (hence the two extra horsepower)? Thanks again guys for the responses.
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I'm a lister twin owner and occasional off grid-er. My 20/2 is not a great engine, with all sorts of mechanical and design issues. I don't believe all the hype anymore. It's simply a low cost, clunky engine, made with sub standard parts. It's my opinion that the 6/1 is the ideal listeroid. AND, even then, the best of us don't get 40,000 hours between overhauls. 5000 hours between proper and comprehensive overhauls may be a great place to start. (yes, some here get more time, right up to failure at 6000-8000 hours). Therefore I stand by my 5000 hour mark.
I spent a year blueprinting my engine. And it still produces uneven power, flickering lights, does not hold frequency well and I still question it's reliability. Don't get me wrong. It's a really cool engine that I don't mind feeding used motor oil, olive oil. jet fuel, waste veggie oil or diesel fuel. Plus it's fun to play with. My point is simply that a modern engine is a more reliable point to start from. Along with all the advantages of a modern governor and proper speed control and start up/shut down capabilities.
(http://www.cujet.com/assets/images/lister_resize.jpg)
Cujet, you should really add this post to your website and maybe a signature to your posts too. I think so many people see your site and the rocketboy site and get all excited after drooling over the pictures and the luck ya'll have had. But few seem to realize that your experience was years ago when engines and parts were more readily available and less expensive.
I know cause the same thing happened to me. I read and learned a bunch of stuff and then went to find a source for a listeroid. Imagine my surprise when I was seeing prices in the thousands of dollars plus shipping. Then found out that most of those prices were outdated as well and that they were actually no longer available new.
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I've never had such peace of mind until after I abandoned all hope.
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I've never had such peace of mind until after I abandoned all hope.
yup.
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They're still available. I just ordered a 6/1 from PA last week. Metro in stock, will pick it up in a coupla weeks. I think Sam in ME also still has some.I bought my 12/2 from Sam a little over a year ago, could pick up the 6/1 myself cheaper than I could get shipping from either dealer. They are still out there...
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Sam shipped me a 6/1 with electric start gear on flywheel Dec '09
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It is getting difficult to arrange small batch shipping from the UK to the USA, mainly as secondhand engines have a history of spilled oil and dirt with the shippers. We have had stuff sitting here for getting on for 8 years, and in that time the shipping reg's have changed and changed again.
I've got a Lister CE on ebay now, and another CE dry sump version going on soon, but I'm not offering overseas shipping as it's a PITA unless you have a container load.
You can't use ordinary pallets, they have to be specially treated wood or steel, and the engines have to be steam cleaned and inspected before they will be accepted by the shippers.
Apart from that, they are great engines!
Indian 12/2 twins had a history of broken crankshafts, most of the other stuff you can read about by going back through the posts on this site.
Peter
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Gary at D.E.S. posts on here now and then and is very quick about answering Emails and easy to talk to on the phone. I suggest you try contacting him about his engines. There are some videos on U tube or somewhere of one of his being inspected but it would seem tha anything learned about that batch should not be applied to the next batch,, no matter who you buy from.
Well there you go Speed turns out you might not be too far from a dealer!
If you were on the east coast I was going to recommend a fellow in Maine but the freight from there would be lots more than from Kansas.
But beware these engines may be fun to work with but cleaning up a dirty poorly assembled and poorly machined roid can tax a person. You might be biting off more than you think.
In other words I vote with cujet! And suggest you reread his post!
Buyer beware :o
Billswan
Thanks Billswan. It's the buyer beware part I'm a bit worried about. I'm not worried too much about tearing a roid apart and cleaning casting sand out and such but the part I'm worried about, and to your point, is getting something that is crap to start with. I am after an engine that's serviceable even if it requires some elbow grease to get there. Does anyone know which roid the Diesel Electric guys are selling? I've read that the twins have problems vs the singles in the past as well so I might just stick with a twin. As I understand it, the only difference between a 6/1 and 8/1 is the speed they run at (hence the two extra horsepower)? Thanks again guys for the responses.
-
I'm a lister twin owner and occasional off grid-er. My 20/2 is not a great engine, with all sorts of mechanical and design issues. I don't believe all the hype anymore. It's simply a low cost, clunky engine, made with sub standard parts. It's my opinion that the 6/1 is the ideal listeroid. AND, even then, the best of us don't get 40,000 hours between overhauls. 5000 hours between proper and comprehensive overhauls may be a great place to start. (yes, some here get more time, right up to failure at 6000-8000 hours). Therefore I stand by my 5000 hour mark.
I spent a year blueprinting my engine. And it still produces uneven power, flickering lights, does not hold frequency well and I still question it's reliability. Don't get me wrong. It's a really cool engine that I don't mind feeding used motor oil, olive oil. jet fuel, waste veggie oil or diesel fuel. Plus it's fun to play with. My point is simply that a modern engine is a more reliable point to start from. Along with all the advantages of a modern governor and proper speed control and start up/shut down capabilities.
(http://www.cujet.com/assets/images/lister_resize.jpg)
(http://www.cujet.com/assets/images/finished_resized.jpg)
Since you are into aviation, anyone a former airline person. I am from Pan Am- MIA -- until they went bust---
Cordially, Graham