Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: jedon on August 23, 2009, 03:33:41 AM
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I'm getting my Metro 6/1 set up and want a water temp gauge, something like this work okay?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Faze-2-Competition-White-Oil-Water-Temperature-Gauge_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem53dc624109QQitemZ360179712265QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Also, I'm having trouble figuring out where to put the thermostat, my Metro came with a water pump and I'm using a car radiator from a 93 RX-7 twin turbo. The thermostat I have came from a 95 Pathfinder ( trying to use stuff I have lying around ).
Thanks!
-Jedon
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If you have 12v that will work....I use a mechanical tempeture gage that is not dependent on any type of power source. I put a "T" on the return line with the sending unit there.
Dave
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Hey there Jedon,
I drilled, tapped and set my sensor right into my 6/1's head, that's where the action is, that's where the temp reading is critical in my mind. Have to admit it was a bit stressful to drill a hole in the head, but once I had it all done and running, I'm happy with my choice. If I have to do it again, I'll do it with confidence.
Mind you, pull the head off the engine, do the deed and then be sure to blow all the drillings out.
(http://www.murphyillustrates.com/lister/images/HeadImprovements.jpg)
It's the brass adapter on the left.
Murph'
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That's a bit bling for a Listeroid !! How about going for a NOS aircraft guage ?
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I'm pretty sure the 12v is just for the light, the gauge should be mechanical. It does come with the sensor.
Iriish Artist, wow nice! I'm not going to bother with that right now but I'll put it on the list of future upgrades.
My main goal right now is just to get the setup working so I can stop running my gas generator all the time.
I'm getting close to finishing up my off-grid house. http://picasaweb.google.com/jedon13
I will take a picture of where the thermostat should go, it is just way too small.
-Jedon
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This one is less bling
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sunpro-Mech-Water-Temperature-Gauge-2-CP8080-New_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem35a313ce1dQQitemZ230369250845QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
I looked for NOS aircraft gauges but Google just kept showingme pretty much the same gauges I had been looking at?
I was thinking a larger one would look cool but they all seem to be around 2"
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Jedon,
The sunpro is about the same as the one I installed. I got mine from the local Auto parts store on sale for $10.00. Most of the sensors have the same threads, so where ever you choose to install, you can always upgrade if you want.
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Anybody also put in oil temp gauge?
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I put a "T" on the return line with the sending unit there.
Why did you choose the return line rather than measuring the temperature on the hot end ?
Jens
Jens
I guess it depends how one looks at it..... I should have been more clear I suppose. The cold comes in the bottom, the hot returns to the raditator.
This is mechanical guage. No power needed unless you need a light.
http://cgi.ebay.com/New!-USG-Mechanical-Temperature-Gauge-60-260F-Capillary_W0QQitemZ110361348290QQcmdZViewItem
Dave
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I like the idea of drilling and tapping the head for the sender, it isn't the only one I've seen and I think I'm going to do it to mine as well. Hey Murph, how did you know that was a safe place to drill and how much clearance around the hole on the inside was there?
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Hey NoSpark,
After I had pulled the head, I poked around with screwdrivers through the various holes for the water jacket. I'd poke, measure, then lay the blade on the outside at the same angle to see where it was at. I also used a small flashlight and mirror to see what was in there. I found about three cavities that where large enough for the sending unit. But the location I ended up with was the best for exterior location. Lots of room into the head until you get to the casting for the injector mounting bolt, which if I remember was about 2+ inches from the exterior wall. Mind you, that was this head, I would not assume they are all casted the same.
Regards,
Murph'
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I'm pretty sure the 12v is just for the light, the gauge should be mechanical. It does come with the sensor.
Iriish Artist, wow nice! I'm not going to bother with that right now but I'll put it on the list of future upgrades.
My main goal right now is just to get the setup working so I can stop running my gas generator all the time.
I'm getting close to finishing up my off-grid house. http://picasaweb.google.com/jedon13
I will take a picture of where the thermostat should go, it is just way too small.
-Jedon
Jedon, That is an electric gauge and will require 12V to operate. One post on the gauge gets 12V, the other post on the gauge connects to the sender which is screwed into the engine. In an auto application, the engine is grounded, which completes the circuit. A mechanical gauge will have a copper capilary tube between gauge and sender... An electric can make for a neater installation, but you will now need a 12V power system to operate it.
Quite frankly, unless you are going to set there and watch a temp gauge, like you do while driving, or if the gauge can give you a temperature alarm contact closure, a non-contact IR thermometer makes a lot more sense for these things. You can check the temp any time you like with a point and a click, and you can also look at any other temp associated with the genset or cooling system. Engine outlet temp, engine inlet temp, radiator inlet temp, radiator outlet temp, exhaust temp, generator case or bearing temp and the list goes on and on and on... Pretty handy IMO when you are working the bugs out of a home grown power system...
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Ronmar,
Good Idea on the IR thermometer, I've seen one of those in action, amazing how quick and easy they are. one concern, it'll only read surface temp, not sure if that's a big deal but as I understand it, in a diesel, you can have a fair amount of variation in temp when comparing the internal and the external temps.
I've always liked the suggestion on the Utterpower cd, the barbeque remote meat thermometer. Just strap the sensor to the outlet line and you can carry the remote around with you while your engine is in operation, you can set the temp for it to go off and get a warning if it starts to overheat. For around $30 bucks, I'm planning on getting one for myself! Hell of allot cheaper than an auto shutdown system and you get some peace of mind.
Murph'
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Yep the remote temp gauge/alarm is a good idea. But a auto shutdown is not that complex, and can be had for about the same $30... Two thermal snap switches for redundancy and a 120VAC solenoid to pull the trigger on a spring loaded fuel cutoff lever or compression release. Plug the thing into a generator power outlet receptical...
The IR will give you a pretty accurate representation of the internal temp with a little prep. You do need an emmissive surface to get a good IR radiation to read. The green that the roids usually come painted with is pretty good if not too glossy. I shoot a small spot of flat green or black primer to shoot with the IR. This spot also gives me a consistent point to always take my measurements from. The cast iron itself is pretty thermally conductive. I would say it won't be more than a degree or three off the actual temp. It is certainly repeatable. I wonder what the margine of error is on that $15 mechanical temp gauge?
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Ronmar,
I bow to your knowledge and experience. I might have gumption, but I have allot yet to learn. One of the main reasons I so enjoy this forum!
I've read about the thermal snap switches, got some digging to do where to find some.
Murph'
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12 volt?
Maybe the newer ones but i think all the ones I have used (in the distant past) were 10.5V - they needed a voltage stabiliser. Perhaps the memory is not so hot but IIRC, both the fuel sender and temp senders were fed from the same supply.
Regards, RAB
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I keep my (uncertified ;))IR gun next to my 6/1 and use it quite often, but I'd rather just look at a gauge that gives me a more accurate idea of what the internal cylinder head temp is, but thats just me.
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How about this? For monitoring purposes. These gauges are from hot water heating systems.
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x161/rleonard1/Lister%206-1%20Engine/IMG_0340.jpg)
and installed;
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x161/rleonard1/Lister%206-1%20Engine/DSC_0148.jpg)
Bob
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Bob, That's a beauty of a gauge, I take it the sensor is at the base of the gauge? There's still a part of me that feels you need to get an internal temp reading to really know what happening. Once I get my engine going again, I'll have to attach another sensor to to my outlet line and see what the difference is.
Ronmar, On your auto shutdown, did you do an auto shut off for the power out from the gen head as well? I understand that shutting it down under load is not a good thing.
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That is a col gauge, temp and pressure.
How often do you expect to shut down on an overheat condition? Ideally, yes, you would want to cut the output power, but most every small generator I have ever seen or worked with has shut down on it's own at some point(run out of fuel, oil, fouled plugs, ect). This should be a VERY rare occurence, it will only happen if something else in the system goes drastically wrong. Most of the small installed gensets I have seen have low oil shutdowns, but no provision to open the output breaker. If you are not taking other precautions to protect vital electronics, then you are making a mistake making your own power, or even using commercial power for that mater:). the brownout during winddown isn't going to be that long, and will be steadilly decreasing at a fairly rapid rate. It could possibly deplete the reserve magnetism in the rotor, but I have never had this actually happen and have inadvertently shutdown while connected on many occasions over the years. If you are wiring your own genset and don't know how to flash the field when or if necessary, perhaps you need to broaden your knowledge base.
Shunt trip breakers are readilly available, but can be expensive. A magnetic contactor could also be added to your power output and opened by the shutdown circuit for another $30-50.