Lister Engine Forum

Slow Speed Diesel Engines => Other Slow Speed Diesels => Topic started by: roverjohn on July 22, 2009, 01:14:39 AM

Title: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: roverjohn on July 22, 2009, 01:14:39 AM
I got my Yanmar TS50C running tonight. Finally, after having it sit around in my shop for a year or so getting curse words shouted at it. It seems to run pretty smoothly, no crazy noises, and the governor governs. It even shut off when I moved the lever to 'off' which was a relief. Problem is that it spewed a continuous stream of white smoke and the throttle response seemed very sluggish considering there was no load. It seemed to pop back through the intake runner before starting so maybe the intake valve is a little tight and I'm sure it has not been run in years and years so who knows what the remaining fuel looked like in the lines. When I bought the thing the fuel tank had what appeared to be a quart of 20 weight motor in it. I have to think the rings are seated as there was not much blow by when I opened the oil inlet so I'm wondering if I can hurt anything by just running a gallon of fuel through it without load to see if fresh fuel and a little time will clear things up.

This is the motor I bought with the 7.3hp Lister ST gen set which now runs like a champ and has already supplied back up power to my house but I'm feeling like the extra $50 spent for the Yanmar was a good move. I'll try to figure out how to get movies uploaded to youtube so anyone who wants to can see them run.
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on July 22, 2009, 01:18:40 AM
if it were me :)

reset the valves, change the oil, fresh fuel
and let her run for an hour or so, even with no load.

then change the oil out again and it should be good to go.

if the little engine is anything like a changfa or visaversa
the intake will make quite a lot of popping noise

bob g
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: roverjohn on July 22, 2009, 02:02:43 AM
Already changed the oil. Flushed out the tank but past that I'm sure it has old fuel. Over the weekend I think I'll let it run and hope for the best. It looks just like a little Changfa but it's yellow and red. I need to fab up a better starter crank too but that's pretty easy.
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mactoollover2005 on July 24, 2009, 03:37:44 AM
if its anything like our military yanmar gennies  you have to watchout for the exhaust. it has a tendency to plug up with sludge oil if even slightly overfilled with oil. looks like a tar substance. a little tear down and a good cleaning all is good again till someone overfills it again,lol.

Derek
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: roverjohn on July 24, 2009, 02:38:44 PM
I ran it for about 30 minutes last night. It has a little oil leak at the valve cover and a coolant leak at a hose so I need to fix those. Other than that it seemed to be getting better with time. It still smokes but not as bad as at first and the governor response got a lot better towards the end of the run. It will govern down to maybe 800-1000rpm and still run very smoothly. I did discover that it will run in the wrong direction if you try starting it with a little less speed than you should which is pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mactoollover2005 on July 24, 2009, 06:10:24 PM
well that is a little different,lol. have you checked the exhaust pipe and baffles for any obstruction? excess fuel is black smoke and coolant is usually a sign of burning coolant but not all the time.
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mactoollover2005 on July 28, 2009, 08:23:31 PM
OOPS, burning coolant is usually white ,  messed up my last post,sorry folks.
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on July 28, 2009, 08:36:28 PM
in a diesel white smoke is unburned fuel

any water that gets into the chamber will cool the compressed air sufficiently so that there
is not ignition taking place,, therefore no steam, just raw fuel and white smoke.

bob g
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mactoollover2005 on August 04, 2009, 08:51:38 PM
Mobile -Bob
                So if unburnet diesel fuel is white then why do tractor trailer rigs when they accelerate do they produce dark black smoke,, unburnt air??lol,sorry, diesel fuel that is unburnt produces black smoke wether from excessive fuel for the air ratio or not enough air is being supplied, either way its coolant that can produce white smoke. Try makeing a camp fire and pour a little water on it,it will produce steam, well if you add glycol to the water you will get white smoke.

 Sorry Bob,not trying to cut you down but in this case you were ACCIDENTLY MISTAKEN.

Just my 3 cents worth
Derek
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on August 04, 2009, 09:46:29 PM
Derek:

so to argue the point, but you are the one that is wrong

black smoke from a diesel engine is partially burned fuel or incompletely burned fuel
white smoke is unburned fuel, or fuel that has not been burned hardly at all.
sometimes a bad injector tip will do this, and smoke white smoke.

water in a diesel cylinder is very good at lowering the combustion temps sufficiently and to the
point that ignition can no longer be supported, it takes very little.

the only way you will see water as the culprit in white smoke in a diesel is in multicylinder engine's
where one cylinder has its fire out and is passing water into a hot exhaust then flashing to steam
and making white smoke,

but i think we are talking a yanmar single cylinder? so it is much more likely he has low compression barely enough
to run when cold, maybe an injector that is carboned up at the tip, or not popping off cleanly, so that he has some
atomization that starts the ignition and combustion but also a slobber/squirt that does not burn sufficiently to be a clean burn, but burns enough  to cause black smoke or,  blue smoke if barely burnt, to white if not burnt at all.

you can look it up in about all of the diesel manuals, detroits manuals were good about this,
and i remember explicitely argueing this point with a detroit deisel instructor 30 odd years ago, only to be shot down
and have this explained to me,, it took a couple years of careful observation after that to see that the corporate engineers
were right on this one all along.

water does no burn it just turns to steam and can make white exhaust if there is sufficient heat in the exhaust manifold to flash it
to steam,, but in a single cylinder this cannot happen, we lose the cylinder before enough water gets out to make steam
so there is insufficient heat in the manifold to flash anything.

bob g

Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: oliver90owner on August 04, 2009, 10:28:32 PM
white is, as Bob says, unburned fuel.  If it is losing that much water you would soon see exhaust gases bubbling through the cooling system.  A single cylinder engine would likely not run in that condition.  As Bob says, a multicylinder will.

Black smoke is particulates due to fuel not finding enough oxygen to burn completely.  Could be too much fuel or simply not atomised sufficiently.  Just look at the diesel pullers.  Black smoking still does not necessarily mean the pistons will not melt!

Regards, RAB
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mactoollover2005 on August 05, 2009, 06:09:52 PM
well it has been 20-21 years since i have torn down detroits completely so your explanation on coolant in a one cyl eng makes sence,just not enough heat to produce steam while on multicyl diesels it can depending on how many good cylinders u have. As for the excessive fuel producing black smoke/lack of air for the amount of fuel i witnessed this myself when we had a engine run like a bag of hammers while idling to medium throttle.The engine had a seized injector in the wide open position no matter what the rack indicated,had to remove the exhaust manifold to see the black exhaust pour out of  the cylinder at a idle to confirm our hunch ( the exh man had a crack in it anyways) replaced the inj and it ran pretty good for a detroit,lol.BUT MAN O MAN WAS IT LOUD,lol.Miss them noisy days,lol.


             ""black smoke from a diesel engine is partially burned fuel or incompletely burned fuel
               white smoke is unburned fuel, or fuel that has not been burned hardly at all.
               sometimes a bad injector tip will do this, and smoke white smoke."

maybe its been almost 20 yrs since my last serious job on a diesel and the fact that i have been working on gassers since but isnt partially unburnt fuel or incompletely burnt fuel the same meaning as unburnt fuel, or fuel that has not been burned hardly at all,, the same meaning?  Either way, there is fuel that not completely burned. I can understand  the engine temperature can also play a major role in the combustion and the complete burning of the fuel but if a tip is partially plugged that should produce a lack of fuel state and that cyl wont produce as much HP and torque as the rest,, with no smoke. If the tip has blown off then i can see a black smoke state because of the lack of restriction for the fuel entering the cylinder causing a excessive amount of fuel entering the cylinder for the amount of air being delivered to it. (Detroits atleast) Please explain to me where im wrong in my thinking

  Im not trying to start any arguements or hurt anyones feelings , so if i did then i apologize   but i too have experience with diesels altho ancient exp compared to the newer diesels and the experience of our brother mechs here on this forum.

  I enjoy these discussions because we all learn from them from ancient, experienced and usually cranky mechanics to our new members who have never seen a diesel but are keen to learn ( way to go guys,keep striving to learn). This forum is everyones way to learn from the groups core of knowledge from,,, a members sole knowledge is because he has a diesel generator that has always given him problems and he was the man to figure out the problem and fix it ,,,to a member who has always worked on various diesels with his hands buried in a engine to find the problem that the manual says couldnt happen but it still did. To talk about our knowledge and experiences helps pass this knowledge on and can make someone else,s  life a little easier because  if it solves their particular problem then  it makes this discussion board even more worthwhile to be a member of, and for that im proud to be here because ultimately we all want and need to learn.

Just my 3 cents worth,, ok $1:75 this time.
Derek


Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: Wizard on August 05, 2009, 07:22:45 PM
Gassers, smokes black if too much gasoline but often the catalyst converter hides it but you can smell strong fuel usually.  Low or bad timing can make stuff sooty.

Diesel, smokes black if not enough oxygen (happens under heavy load).

Both engine will smoke white if water is drawn in, gassers smokes blue if oil is getting  into combustion chambers. Diesel engine cheerily burns any escaped oil and get really hairy if leakage is excessive and you have a run-away engine!

Grayish/whitish smoking and smell of fuel of diesel would be lost compression or way out of balance among cylinders (my guess).

I enjoy your stories. :)

Cheers, Wizard
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: M61hops on August 05, 2009, 10:42:05 PM
Sometimes there's just no substitute for experience  ;) !  This is especially true in the mechanics trade !  It's been my experience that not many mechanics really understand how stuff works!  I'd love to have a guy like Bob for my next door neighbor  ;D !                      .05 worth for today.......   leland
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on August 06, 2009, 02:19:29 AM
nothing like the old detroits to teach you the color chart when it comes to smoke

clear exhaust = proper combustion light to moderate loads

gray exhaust = proper combustion moderate to full rated load

black smoke = overload, insufficient turbo boost, leaking intake loosing boost, incomplete combustion

blue smoke = messed up injector tip, dribbling excess fuel, oil running out of ports with airbox covers off
                   causes, sometime loose injector body, bad tip/barrel assy, fuel is barely charred, thickened and
                   remains look like motor oil running out of ports.

white smoke, = over fuel, bad timeing, fuel isn't even charred, partial atomization from some orifices and others just
                     squirting a crude non atomized shot of fuel that cannot be ignited.

the proof comes out when you are working commission for a living, it doesn't take long to learn from those that came before you
what causes the different colors of smoke, and how best to address them. otherwise you just spend a lot of time from a misdiagnosis
that you don't get paid for. ask me how i know?

ok, you asked :)

6v53 compressor engine, complete out of frame overhaul, done to factory standards using all factor new and reman parts
rebuild done, broken in properly and send back to its home location 500 miles away
a week later the engine is blowing heavy blue smoke out of one bank
remove air box covers on bank that is smoking, find copious amounts of motor oil pumping up past the rings on center piston
removed head, pan and cylinder kit, disassembled cyl kit, check for broken oil contro rings, all ok, wrist pin snap plug vacuum check
no problems, reassembled and tested, same issue, tear down again, and reassembled, same issue
but more clean oil being pumped out past the rings while the enigne is running.  finally check visc against motor oil
found to be heavier than the 40weight engine oil??? hmmm how can that be
same color, but visably heavier
sent injector back to detroit for testing, found to have injector body overtorqued and internals damaged, no fuel control
injector pouring fuel early into cylinder and fuel is fired just enough to thicken to the consistancy of ~50 weight motor oil!

that cost me dearly in lost wages all for a piss poor factor reman injector that sold for 35 bucks exchange.

many times over the years we would have engines such as small cam cummins come in smoking white, and huffing
detach exhaust manifold to determine cylinder, and have a face full of white cold smoke, diesel fuel based.
generally the cause was attributed to a burned valve, bad injector or scorched piston/liner causing insufficient compression
to support ignition at all, resulting in white smoke.

now this is not to say we didn't see some engine's come in smoking white like a freight train with leaking intercoolers allowing water
to go through, but when this was the case it was apparent what the issue was, the telltale sweet smell and resultant sweet aftertaste
on your lips from being around it,
but in all cases it was water that made it through a dead cylinder into a very hot exhaust and flashed to steam.

also it is very difficult to get water into a cylinder of a diesel engine, the compression is quite high so to get there it generally will come in through the intake via a bad intercooler core, not generally through a cracked head or leaking gskt.

that is generally speaking

there are exceptions to every rule of course, you learn very early on to look for the most plausible first and work your way through.

bob g
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mactoollover2005 on August 06, 2009, 05:13:24 PM
WIZARD- I ran into the excessive oil scenerio in 82 as a learning mechanic when we had to overhaul used 6v53 detroits with used parts,lol. As our teams started up their engines at different times one of the engines started to run away. the first thing the guys tried to do was force the govenor to shut off the fuel flow,,nope that didnt work and by that time the eng was over 3300 rpm and  slow climbing then they tried to kill the engine with a huge thick phone book to cover the air intake,nope that didnt work ether,lol,sucked that puppy right in and turned it into cinders flying out the exhaust. so common sence dictated that we scram as fast as our little feet could travel. After the bang and clunking we saw parts landing everywhere,lol,pieces of a head ,piston, oil pan etc.found out that at 3475 rpm the valves start to hit the piston but it doesnt mean it will stop the engine from running lol.
We all learned a lot of things that day,lol. out of 8 teams we had 3 run aways also caused by our instructors playing with one of the engines while we had gone home for the night or gone to lunch and then came back and started them up with out rechecking everything,lol.

Since the engines that they wanted us to learn on were destined to go back to a reman engine company the school thought it was a great way for us to learn,lol, it was a learning experience thats for sure,lol.

My 3 cents worth
Derek
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: Wizard on August 06, 2009, 05:42:51 PM
Derek,  re the runways... here's a video of in this thread I started while ago about RAPP 24.

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=4455.0

I have not found any other more runway videos and actually exploding.

Cheers, Wizard
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mactoollover2005 on August 06, 2009, 06:21:02 PM
mobile bob  
               It is apparent that you lived on detroits for awhile while as i as a military mechanic worked on everything we have in our inventory from generators, gas engs, snowmobiles, diesels, etc and it wasnt all the time that we worked on the engines ,most of the time was doing brakes or other things to these vehicles and equipement. None of us is specialized  we just fix everything as it comes to us so i value your experience when you say a inj tip will do this or this fault will cause that problem.

               Now for the skill testing question Bob--- We had a 6-53 come in and the eng was toast caused by overheating.checked the cooling system out and it was in working order ( belt for fan, fan , water pump , thermostat, hoses etc) Pulled the eng  and put it on the eng stand,  Drained the eng oil which ran like water ,ripped off the oil pan and found that the crank  and connecting rods had turned the color of blue/black plus most of the internals had done the same thing. We checked the oil that had been installed the previouse week by the driver who got the oil off of me, so i know it was 15-40 diesel oil and found that the oil had broken down to water viscosity and was black black black like it had been in it for months instead of 5-6 days with maybe 50-60 kms on the fresh oil and new oil filter. The oil wasnt contaminated with water or fuel or anything like that. To this day we still think about that engine and wonder what the heck caused the oil to turn to water viscosity. The oil pump was serviceable but it too had the bluish color to it from the heat of the oil which also peeled most of the eng paint off of it.
               In that case with the eng being toast ,,,we just replaced it with a new eng and the vehicle was gone out the door serviceable in about 3 hours. Normally when we were told to replace a engine or trany,,, from the time we touched the vehicle to finished the road test with the new eng/trany in it my partner and i could have it done in 4.5 hours,lol

Just my 3 cents worth
Derek

              
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on August 06, 2009, 06:40:16 PM
got a couple issues with the runaway 6v53
all were fitted with blowers, and known as naturally aspirated
and some fitted with turbo's with a suffix of 6v63T or TA if aftercooled

if you put a nice thick phone book over the intake during a runaway, the engine would have had to die
reason being, either the air got cut off or the book got sucked in (but it would have died immediately had that happened)
the blower drive in a 2 stroke detroit cannot handle anything of consequence being sucked through the blower rotors
the clearances are far to tight to allow anything going through.

also a 6v53 can handle well over 4 grand without damage, unless there was a part not installed correctly or not torqued.

as for the oil running out like water? not sure what happened their but strongly suspect fuel dillution via a leaking transfer pump
what happens if some guys not knowing any better will install 1/8" pipe plugs in all the weep holes, and if the seals go bad the
leak has to end up into the crankcase instead of dribbling externally where it can be seen.

also 15/40 diesel oil is incorrect for any detroit 2 stroke, straight weight 30 in very cold weather, 40 in warm weather, and 50 in
tropical or equatorial hotter than hell operation.

i have never seen the internals of a detroit having turned blue, a detroit running under load will rarely every damage a crank due to low oil
before a piston seizure takes place, it will always stick a piston before it ever spins a rod brg,,, generally
if i were to bet my lunch money, it would always be on a siezed piston long before brg damage and failure.

having spent many years, doing nothing buy detroit engine work, day in and day out, i have never seen a detroit runaway result in catastrophic failure, i am sure it is possible, but generally if the engine is sound and assembled properly they can wind to the sky, scare the hell
out of everyone in sight, and still live to run another day. that is if there is someone handy to cut off the air.

btw, all naturally aspirated engines had air doors to cut off the air incase of a runaway situation, but they nixed them on the turbo versions
and opted for breakaway racks that would allow one injector to hang in full throttle but not allow the others to be held in full throttle.

i have seen one 8v71 maxed out at just a touch over 4500rpm, and that it about all the engine can do because of valve float
pretty exciting to say the least,

i have also seen a 12v149TTA with a hung injector, straight pipes pointing to the sky
8" in diameter blowing fire ~6feet above the pipe and what i can only imagine looking like mt vesuvious blowing towering plumes
of black smoke above the flames.

that will make you backside pucker :)

bob g
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on August 07, 2009, 12:29:33 AM
in re to the 6v53 with oil that ran out like water...

i forgot the obvious :)

all those fuel jumper lines, stand pipes and washers, injector fittings and seal washers which are under the valve covers
are all points of internal fuel leakage that all ends up diluting the oil with fuel
it takes a very small leak no time at all to start filling the crankcase and cutting the oil to where it would be very fluid
about the viscocity of water as you stated.

the system runs at ~60psi at full throttle, so it doesn't take much of a leak

btw, those unitized injectors are quite a feat of engineering back in their day
mechanical actuated and able to inject at well over 20k psi
other manufactures didnt reach those pressures until the went with the modern common rail
HUEI systems and the like.

i kinda miss those old detroits, them and the VT903 cummins (it had a sound all its own, v8 903 cu/in short stroke)

bob g
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: Doug on August 07, 2009, 02:43:49 AM
Bob you left out the part about that thinned out oil coming out the blower seals and the engine runs away lol.

I found a GM 3 71 ( I think it was 71 series and not a detroit it said GM diesel ) diesel at work Bob with 700 hours being scrapped. They wouldn't let me have it :(

The felt it was time to replace it because it was old and the parts were hard to find. It was on a fire pump that only started during power failures to suply booster presure. Thats 700 lifetime hours in a heated building...
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on August 07, 2009, 04:46:33 AM
700 hours?  barely broken in!

woulda been a cool engine to have gotten for the taking

from what i am told, overhaul parts are still available, its the other parts that
are hard to get new, still jillions of them around the planet though so
it should be a very long time before the sound of a detroit is nothing but a memory.

the inline series detroit was the most versatile engine ever built, 8 different configurations
4 right hand rotation and 4 left hand rotation
you can flip the block end for end, so the blower can be on either side, the head can be mounted
either direction by swapping the cam and countershaft so you can have the exhaust on either side.
all sorts of variations, quite a versatile piece of engineering in my opinion.
the 16v71 and 16v92's were two v8's doweled and bolted together, another interesting tidbit

they really tried to make that engine a one size fits all solution to any problem that needed a diesel engine.

those were the days :)

i think my absolute favorite detroit in a class 8 truck was the 12v71NA very good power and smooth as a swiss watch
had the opportunity to test drive a 12v71TTA, 575 hp , only truck i ever drove that could light the rear axles at 40mph
when you stomped on the throttle pedal. so smooth, yet very powerful for their day.

come to think of it, there were many interesting engine's back in the 70's, 1693 cat what a frigging monster, KTA cummins was another
at 1150cu/in inline six 4 stroke and the 3408 cats were no slouch either. even allis chalmers made a truck engine in the early 70's for a
time, didn't take long for those who had them to figure out how to turn the power up on those bad boys,, usually the crankshaft would fail at around 600hp or so iirc.

i must be getting old, i don't care much for the new iron, it is changing so quickly anymore that i find it hard to imagine
that there will be guys 30 years from now that will recall any of these engine's in current production, save a very few oddities.

bob g

bob g
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mactoollover2005 on August 07, 2009, 06:23:06 PM
Bob- A 8-71 at 4500rpm?? holy crap is all i can say,lol, as for the military diesels ie.. 6v53 lets just say the rebuilds were not top quality nor always serviceable when we received from the company as serviceable. Did a few jobs where we went to start them up after install and ether didnt start or ran like a bag of hammers,found a few missing pistons,lol, one eng didnt have any but it too had passed the quality test at the reman factory. But they all came with a really nice coat of pain on them that i can say,they did a better job on the paint quality than the actual work on the eng.,lol.

12v149TTA, now that must be interesting piece of kit,lol. I had to repair a head with new valves because someone screwed up the govenor adjustment and the rpm read 3475 on the guage after it was shut down,only 3 valves had to be replaced so we just took them off a used eng that was going back to be rebuilt. We could get parts for them but it was easier and faster to swipe them from the dead engines we had sitting around waiting to go out.Remember the name of the game was to get them out and running and not to be perfect, most engines only last 6- 12 months usually because of various reasons, drivers being one of them,lol.and no or low oil being another.

Ass for the phone book i would totally agree with you except for one thing and that is i was there and saw it with my own eyes. Took a few seconds but it chewed and spit the book out in burning cinders. after that we all had inch and a half plywood chicken boards to kill the air intake which doesnt work some times the vacuum can suck the blowers suction side seals in and get air that way.

15/40 oil is what we are ordered to use,no debate about it,lol. and did u know that detroit make various length dipsticks for the same 6v53? they did, our engines had the longer version which made the eng abot 1.5 to 2 quarts overfull and caused the valve cover gaskets to leak all the time and sometime the rear or front main seals. We found this out and took out 2 quarts and miraculousely  the leaks stop for the majority of the engines. of course we had to top all the engines back up 2 quarts when the big bosses came around to inspect the vehicles once a month sometimes once every 2 months then remove the added oil after they were gone,lol.

Just my 3 cents
Derek
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: Doug on August 07, 2009, 09:37:23 PM
Toyota diesels have dip sticks like that.

I had brought mine in for a service one time and the dipstick was changed for one too short.

On start up it was fine untill I drove down ramp and the oil sucked into the engine caused a brief but very frighteniong runaway. I stalled the engine out on the side of the drift with bumper and dropped the clutch. It had just enough oil to cause trouble but not so much that it would not idle and run normal on flats.
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on August 08, 2009, 03:27:48 AM
Derek:

don't get me wrong, i am not telling you that you didn't see a 6v53 eat a phone book, just
that it likely was one in a million, and possibly the one witnessed event in the history of all detroit
2 cycle engines.

sure i am skeptical, as would anybody that is really conversant in those engine's

the problem i am having with the story is multifold

the NA engines all had shutdown airdoors on the blower, that cut off the airflow, and had screens
the screens would never allow anything over about 1/8" cube to get passed into the blower, and

the 53 series used a straight cut set of rotor lobes, unlike the larger displacements that used
helical cut rotors, the straight cut would have to shear a complete bite of the phone book as opposed
the the helical that could cut it like a pair of scissor, but

the clearances are so close between the rotors and the blower body, (.008-.012" iirc) which means things are
very tight... so tight that a V series blower when laid flat on a steel table you can turn the rotor by hand and pull enough
vacuum that the rotors will reverse rotation when you turn loose, or if you turn in the direction to push air through
it will develop enough pressure to lift itself as if on a airhockey table,, pretty impressive considering the weight envolved.

the blower drive was designed to shear before severe damage to the blower took place, it took very little to shear that drive
certainly far less than ever a very few pages of a phone book.

if as you say it happened as you said it did, you should count yourself as probably the only man on the planet that ever
witnessed such an event.

i have seen other engine's ingest things like redrags that came out as flaming/smouldering bits but never past the blower
of a detroit.

bob g
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: Doug on August 08, 2009, 04:24:17 AM
I saw the yoke of a boiled egg floating in the rad of my 80 mustang after purchase.

I saw smoke rings and fire come out of both ends of my dads 81 Cutless.

I also saw my Dad quickly but clamly walk over to an up ended excavator as a boy in a ditch and close the shutter Bob was talking about after the opperator bailed.

But I have never seen any engine consume any greater or lesser works of literature.......
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on August 08, 2009, 04:43:59 AM
" i been to 3 hog f$%&ins, and 2 county fairs, but i never seen nuttin like that"

:)

or my favorite

like granny used to say

"maybe so, but i kinda F%$^ing doubt it!"

bob g
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: Doug on August 09, 2009, 12:37:16 AM
Bob are you sitting down.

We agree on something.

Ya I know I am scared too....
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mobile_bob on August 09, 2009, 03:25:06 AM
down right freaky ain't it?

lmao

bob g
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: roverjohn on August 13, 2009, 03:27:23 AM
I hate getting in the way of a good talk but I have an update on the Yanmar. It's running much better. I still have not put a load on it but it will run down reliably to about 800rpm or so and will then race back up to full speed by flipping the gov lever. I think I just need to run it for a bit under at least a two or three HP load and it will build enough heat to get things cleaned up. Well at least as much as it's going to get cleaned up which may allow for it to drive a little genny. I need to get a vid posted.
Title: Re: Yanmar yeah!.........but white smoke
Post by: mactoollover2005 on August 18, 2009, 05:49:29 PM
Guys, like i said the engines were not the best quality reman engines ever seen but with straight cut blower gears i wouldnt believe it waspossible to eat a phone book either but i was there,maybe its just a fluke but true it was the only eng that i was within 4-5 feet of that ran away like that,heard of many other stories that the engines ran away  and some guys were not so lucky to not receive any scratches or worse.i beleive it is the m109a2 engines that have the helical blower vanes,never saw it eat a phone but thats because the guys 2"-3" wooden  board with a steel backing board and handle when they test run them up.
Now it is possible that we missed a fuel line that was leaking but the oil smelled burnt not saturated with d fuel and all the lines were tight and we didnt find any bent flares or cracked lines,possible that they had installed plugs in the eng. we never had a very indepth course of the 6v53 just was the basic diesel course that encompassed all types of diesels and inj pumps. and that was back in 82,so as we tore down a eng to just take a look we sorta thought thats they way they made them, plug here ,this line there etc..they were a lot wasier to work on back then with a heck of a lot less electronics and wiring than the new detroits that they use in our newer bisons or apc,s. All i know is that the new apc eng produces something like 425-450 hp from a detroit 6v53 or it might be a 8v53 these days.