Lister Engine Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: LowGear on April 06, 2009, 06:10:50 AM
-
I was just over cruising generators and got caught up in a post by Jens. Rather than having a dual interest thread I came over here to get this one started. I'd be really interested in how you're doing in the war against the tidal wave wealth transfers to the oil cartels of the world.
I’d like you to disclose the following information:
1. KWH daily average usage?
We’re at about 60 KWH per day.
2. Your rate?
Down to 33 cents USD per KWH.
3. What’s your latest weapon against in the war against wasteful power usage?
Turning the hot tub off.
4. What device, behavior or change has made the biggest impact on your usage?
It wasn’t turning the solar hot water heater off! I’m still dismayed.
Casey
-
1) 8-9
2) 9.8p
3) Evacuated tube water heating.
4) The 'off' switch
Regards, RAB
-
1/ 5.4
2/ £0.15 (who is yr provider RAB ??!! )
3/ No standby use and low energy lighting.
4/ Turning off discipline.
-
OOPs! Bill was from a year ago. Will update in the next couple of days or so. Expecting the next bill very shortly.
RAB
-
1. KWH daily average usage? 18.6 from Jan 6 to Mar 4th (58 days)
2. Your rate? $0.05980 or effectively 6 cents per kwh for the first step. Don't know about the 2nd step, it's higher but we've never used that much.
3. What’s your latest weapon against in the war against wasteful power usage? Vigilance (turning off unnecessary useage)
4. What device, behavior or change has made the biggest impact on your usage? More insulation and caulking on an older house.
That's only part of the story though. Our price for electricity is regulated by an "outside agency" which must approve rate hikes. So to get around that,
the power company has instituted an "innovative Clean Energy Fund Levy" and a "Basic Charge", as well as a "Rate Rider" charge. Don't know what they
are for, but they add up.
Stan
-
Wow Stan,
You’re paying effectively about 5 cents USD a KWH and you're not heating with electricity? Get down to The Great Wall of Chinamart and buy a couple of those most excellent made at home space heaters. Remember; Once that water goes over the damn it's gone forever. How’d he know, you ask? Hydroelectric is the only way you can get 5 cent a kilowatt power in the new world. And Stan lives in snow country where you don’t heat a house electrically with a measly 20 KWH per day consumption statistic.
Is my guess that you pounds sterling people are using atomic heat exercitation of the molecules to generate your electricity valid? .15 pounds is about 22 cents USD.
In my house “off” is spelled “ffo” or is absolutely meaningless. “Habits are a pleasure to do” is one of my favorite mantras and I do believe the off button is one of the most effective tools against oil money subsidized terrorism. I know it doesn’t stack up very well against landing on an aircraft carrier in a jet fighter and declaring the war is won but have you seen the streets of Dubai. They ain’t the least bit concerned about terrorist hijackers.
Casey
-
Is my guess that you pounds sterling people are using atomic heat exercitation of the molecules to generate your electricity valid? .15 pounds is about 22 cents USD.
It's not called "Rip-off Britain" for nothing you know. We've got 650 politicians pockets to pad (currently to the tune of over £100million in expenses alone, every single year - that's in total, not per politician - most of which goes on buying 2nd & 3rd homes so said politicians can retire to a life of luxury when they're finally kicked out of office). EVERYTHING is expensive here, partly because we're an island (so most things are imported), mostly because we've got a scandalously spendthrift government who've been hosing money away like a cow pissing on a flat rock.
Here's why: http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2006/09/government-debt-still-wildly.html (follow the links to find out where the £1.8 trillion figure comes from - it's scary)
Oh, and the pension system's going to kill us all too: http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2006/04/scary-pensions-numbers.html
Warning: If you're from the British side of the pond, the above links may cause stress, heart attacks and death.
-
1. 5.78 average.
2. 16.14p (I'm now looking for a better deal)
3. Turn it off.
4. Low energy bulbs, Ramoska cooker.
LowGear, how on earth are you using 60 KWH a day?? that's ten days supply for me. :o :o
Rob
-
1) 11 KWH per day averaged over the last 10 months.
2) ~18.9 cents per KWH total. That includes all the additional charges and taxes.
3) I turned off my 2nd refrigerator. I’m real close to being out of inexpensive options here. I began making my house more efficient when I moved in 15 years ago.
4a) Several years ago I moved my woodstove from the basement to the living room. There is more of a mess with dust and wood chips but even in the depths of winter I can go for weeks without any other heat if I’m gone for less than 10 hours a day. In that mode the oil furnace is off except for 1 shower a day. All other hot water comes from a pot on the wood stove. I’ll do laundry on weekends with Listeroid hot water and electricity. My last fuel oil fill up was 310 gallons and that was for 3 full years in upstate NY.
4b) Last summer I got an 85 MB 300D running on wvo. I can only run wvo when temps are above 35°f but plan on using it as much as possible this summer.
IMO in order to save money and energy it must be somewhere in your thoughts at all times. There are literally 100s of things I do. My ability to fix and build things for myself has probably been my biggest money saver over the years.
Thanks, Geno
-
1. 1,130 kwh for 29 days = 38.9 kwh per day.this was minimum usage this year. max usage in last 12 months 1,656 kwh. average usage in last 12 months 1,357 kwh.
2. This part get confusing, likley on purpose:
Distribution services
.026 for first 300 kwh
.023 for over 300 kwh
Electricity Supply Services
.055 for both under & over 300 kwh per kwh
Power Cost Adjustment charge
.0396 for both under & over 300 kwh per kwh
sooo:
for the first 300 kwh .120 cents per kwh
for all over 300 kwh .118 cents per kwh
3. Purchase of a pellet heating stove 2 years ago, but pellets have gone up $120.00 to $150.00 per ton this year.
4. having my two step children move out this year, no more 30 to 40 minute showers YEAH!!!
This is for an all electric house including hot water & 20 amp 240v well pump.
in fairness I belong to an electric cooperative & each year I get a rebate of approximately $80.00. The cooperative is a not for profit entity & "profits" are redistributed back to the "owners" known as the users of the service. The house is 30 years old & not well insulated though I have been working on that & getting new windows.
-
Guys, the initial high unit cost is to cover the 'standing charges' of the infrastructure. It don't matter a jot if you use just those base units or lots more (except for tiered tarifs which rise for heavy users).
So the cost is per unit , not averaging out the bill. During the Summer months I have nearly all my breakfast cooking on the cheap night rate. Sarny for lunch is the order of the day. Suits me. J likes to cook an evening meal. I encourage her to use the gas, rather than the 'lectric oven, but it falls on deaf ears.
Regards, RAB
-
HI Casey...Nope, still cheaper to heat with natural gas (sorry, for the 1 or 2 guys who believe in global warming :-X) than electricity here in BC. I do have a pellet stove I forgot to mention and 60% of my heat derives from that. It is significantly cheaper than nat. gas and carbon neutral to boot! Not too much incentive to go off grid.
Stan
-
Careful with pellet stove. In my area there was house fire that was caused by 1 year old pellet stove.
Cheers, Wizard
-
1. KWH daily average usage?
We use around 28 KWH per day we generate around 34Kwh per day.
2. Your rate?
0.000 We generate all of our own power using PV's and a Wind turbine.
3. What’s your latest weapon against in the war against wasteful power usage?
I designed and installed two solar air heaters for a total of around of 150 square feet of collector area.
We use an air source heat pump for heat in the winter.
4. What device, behavior or change has made the biggest impact on your usage?
Addition of PV's, wind turbine, solar air heaters and CFL's .
PS. We are grid tied and sell our energy credits at the end of each year.
Carl
-
Hi Carl,
Please relist your link. Remember, Carl lives in New Jersey which isn't all that far from New York City. Isn't it amazing that at that latitude, almost 40 degrees, he can net zero his electricity. Cheers!
Casey
-
here is a link to a picture of the back of our house with the wind turbine and 7kw of solar on the main roof. Since this picture we have added 3kw to the garage roof and a 100 sq/ft solar hot air collector to the lower portion of the second floor just under the windows running across the entire width of the house.
Carl
http://www.skystreamenergy.com/images/photos/20-baldino_1.jpg
-
See, there's your problem - the reflections from the solar panels are so bright they've caused the turbine blades to bend...
;D
-
Yup, looks like them suckers just got too hot and bent like plastic steer horns on a hot pickup hood on a scorching Texas day! Yeee haw!
Stan
-
Gosh,
I thought they were reacting to the particulates in the New Jersey wind and were just sweep back by pure friction.
Hey Stan,
Have you compared BTUs per nickel for one KWH against one nickels worth of natural gas? That’s a space heater on medium for an hour.
Do climate warming warners consider hydroelectric energy to be renewable?
I do the maintenance on an apartment building in Seattle. I just changed out the hot water boiler for this 2500 square foot multiplex and the oil bill dropped by almost 25%. We changed out the 1943 single pane windows to double pane on the house next door and the oil bill hasn’t dropped enough to notice. Oh, we stuck another 4 inches of insulation in the ceiling as well. This year we’re going after infiltration.
Casey
-
Do climate warming warners consider hydroelectric energy to be renewable?
Of course. It is simply solar energy, so is renewable. It is indirect solar, but that is still the source. Unless it is pumped storage, of course.
Solar thermal + wind (indirect solar)>>>>evaporation, transpiration/evaporation>>>>>precipitation>>>>catchment=====Gravitational Potential Energy>>>>kinetic energy to turn the turbine to drive the generator as required.
Regards, RAB
-
RAB is not completely correct, but mostly. It takes a tremendous amount of carbon in the form of concrete production to build a dam. There's some natural offgassing due to vegetation rotting on the bottoms of reservoirs, and silting makes the life of a dam something between 100 and 150 years. In Turkey for example, they built 12 huge dams that they expected to last for over 100 years, but because they have raped all the mountain sides of their trees, the erosion was waaaay more than expected and some of their dams will be useless in 25 to 50 years now.
So it depends. We've got a rabid neo-con party in charge of BC right now and they are considering building another dam on the Peace River in some of the most productive farmland in the area. Hopefully the Indians will put a stop to it as some of the land is owned by them. We don't need any more power as BC is a net exporter to the US, and the govt is only wanting to sell more so they can reward their rich benefactors. We are actually being run by a group called the "Fraser Institute" who's mission statement reads "Redirecting of public attention to the role of competative markets in providing for the will being of Canadians health and education". Which means "give my rich buddies all the business of "for profit health" and "for profit education". People like Conrad Black, Tom Flanigan, the Weston family, Karl Rove etc are or were recently on the board of directors of this bunch of neo-cons.
They are all the chief advisors of our premier, you know, the one charged and found guilty of drunk driving in Hawaii 4 or 5 years ago!
Stan
-
OK, enough fan based support for the ruling class. I hope you don’t pay as high a price as we did for the free-basing marketers that parade about as newly defined conservatives. I just got an email soliciting signatures to put the rascals on trial.
But Wait! Weren't we talking about how the use and price of power (electrical) varies around the world? I sure wish some of our Australian and South African members would share their experience with us. How is their power generated? How much does it cost and how much do they use? And is it purchased from/through the government or is there a somewhat independent private company marketing their utilities?
Casey
-
Stan,
I agree with your comments about dams. But one must remember that not all hydro is from dammed lakes, resevoirs or what have you. Some can be 'run of river' - obviously a very low head there! Some can be simple penstock from the supply before a waterfall - some serious power from the high flow high head pelton wheels. Of course, like you indicated, removal of forestation can cause serious soil erosion problems up-stream and some areas are more prone to heavily laden waters with suspended sediment at certain times of the year.
A lot of the concrete used in modern large abuttments is a fly-ash (waste material) derived product - less cracking due to thermal heat produced while curing per unit time. But never mind the structure of the dam - consider the change to the environment as well, ecological changes. They may have put in a Severn barrage (tidal system, not 'hydro' in it's accepted sense) many years ago (when it was a cheaper project, relatively) but the problems were, among others, how the backwaters would build up with raw sewage effluent, which was still being disposed directly into the river, and the associated hazards.
Hydro is still renewable. Can make some more tomorrow and the days after with no further 'energy' cost. Nearly all installations hydro, wind, solar thermal or PV etc. have a capital cost.
Regards, RAB
-
Our BC Premier has figured another way to reward his buddies in industry on the advice of the Fraser Institute. He has ordered our "crown corporation" quasi gov't body, called BC Hydro to cease any further hydro development in the province. In return he has "let" private, for profit corporations have the rights to partially dam over 100 creeks and rivers and to construct "run of the river" hydro installations, many of which are already completed and more planned.
All this would be a good thing if the average guy could get in on it and sell the power harvested to BC Hydro at a competitive rate. (BC Hydro power costs less than 5 cents/kwh to produce). However if you didn't get in on this at the beginning, (and it was secret) and you are not a huge corporation that has close political ties to our neo-con leader, you didn't stand a chance.
There are 2 killers in this whole scenario. The first is that by law (recently passed) BC Hydro MUST buy the power from these projects at a fixed rate of 24 cents/kwh (thereby setting the stage to bankrupt BC Hydro). The second is that under NAFTA, if any of these companies (many of them american) sell even 1 kwh of power to the US, the americans will then "own" all rights to that stream or river, including the right to take any or all of the water and ship it to the US via pipeline.
Lots of intelligent people here in BC are quite ticked off at this whole scam.
Stan
-
Stanly,
The KMA NAFTA would never read The United States of America but rather "exportee". It's much like the carcinogenetic gas additives that are used in California imported from Canada and were sued by the Canadian suppliers under the rules and laws of NAFTA that California’s public health laws were subordinate to their right to import poisons preventing California stopping their importation.
This 24 cent KWH sounds much like our corporate energy supplier here in Hawaii that defends not buying local non polluting power over running diesel generators because they have to pay the same price for all energy sources. Of course under this law the 24 cents wouldn’t hold water as the 5 cents is the market retail rate for power.
KMA – Kiss My Donkey (is that worse sounding than Ass?)
Casey
-
Jens...Rafe Mair writes a weekly article in "The Tyee" and has railed against this "Run of the River" crap for months now. If you are as old as I am, you'll remember Rafe was a Socred Minister, and as such can in no way be construed as a rabid socialist! Duh......He came up to Cranbrook and gave a lecture on the dangers of this stunt of Gordo's and stated several times that under NAFTA, any useage or sale of water, or water products can be construed as an entry into the existing NAFTA agreement in perpetuity. I don't pretend to understand all the permutations and complications of nafta but a guy like Rafe undoubtedly does.
If you google Tyee, you'll find its an electronic magazine and I'm sure they have back issues of Rafe's columns.
Stan
-
nothing a few dozen more nuclear plants won't fix
:)
bob g
-
Nuclear Plants. The tool that keeps on giving. One half life after another.
Incidently, where are we getting our fuel from these days?
Casey
-
Canada.
Stan