Lister Engine Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stan on March 29, 2009, 04:50:16 AM
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Well....Did everyone that is concerned about climate change turn their lights out to send a message to your local politicians that you are concerned and that they better do something about it? I did! :)
Stan
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Not me Stan, I was too busy cleaning my Polar Bear gun.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/56861
SR.
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It had better be a big one! A friend of mine (next farm over) up in Dawson Creek held the guiding territory around us and used to take black powder guys out for a special hunt for 2 weeks before the regular season started. He and another guide friend of his went together one day with a black powder guy who suprised and shot a grizzly through the neck. The grizzly charged and both guides emptied their very high power rifles into the bear which only died less than 10 feet from the feet of the black powder guy who was madly trying to reload (I'd bet he needed a change of shorts though ;D ) My buddy is convinced that if only one of them was out that day with the black powder guy, they would both have been "on the menu" as he puts it.
As a result my buddy only carries a 12 guage pump now loaded with slugs and triple aught shells which when loaded with 5 in the magazine can chop down trees as well as bears.
Stan
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It's a contender carbine in .375 JDJ a custom cartridge capable of bringing down african elephant with one shot. the guy that designed the cartridge ,J.D. Jones, took a charging african elephant with a shot to the forehead, using a 300 grain "solid" bullet that passed completely thru the brain case & lodged 10 inches into the animals neck. so the gun will do the job, I just have to do my part since it is a single shot rifle.
If you are smart you never hunt dangerous game with out "back up" thats just stupid!
forgot to mention that the gun J.D. used to take that elephant , it was a 10 inch barreled pistol !!
SR.
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The problems with trying to stop a charging grizzly, is that it can go from 0 to 40 mph in two shakes of a lambs tail. When they charge, they charge head down, with it bobbing up and down at least a couple of feet, several times per second. Getting a successful head shot is practically impossible. They are also overloaded on adrenaline and can keep going dead for several seconds on "autopilot", enough time to kill at least a couple of men. At 40 mph, weighing several hundred pounds, you need a LOT of mass to actually stop (not kill) this bear. This is why there are so many stories of hunters becoming prey at the hands of grizzlys. Many relatively narrow bullets, no matter how fast, can pass cleanly through a charging bear like this without affecting it's charge much. Some of my buddies in the ham club provided communications for search and rescue and RCMP for this first story that happened just 3 hours North of us here in Kimberley.
I would imagine hunting a polar bear would be a similarly dangerous job as they are supposedly bigger and meaner than grizzlys. (not to mention rarer ;)
Stan
http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/think_grizzly/C41/L41/
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Polar bears heads are also smaller, more tapered than grizlly bears big blockey head, making a head shot more difficult. again, another reason not to hunt dangerous game without back up, that & polar bears consider anything, that is not snow, as food.
SR
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Actually there are a few black bears up around the rockies here that consider tourists to be food. We usually lose a couple a year (tourists that is).
Stan
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Yea, more people killed in the lower 48 by black bears than almost anything else, partly cause there are so many, partly cause people thing they are "cute" & "cuddly" so the fools try to get close to them & get eaten. it used to be this sort of thing kept the shallow end of the gene pool pretty empty, see what "progress" brings? LOL.
SR.
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Yea, more people killed in the lower 48 by black bears than almost anything else, partly cause there are so many, partly cause people thing they are "cute" & "cuddly" so the fools try to get close to them & get eaten. it used to be this sort of thing kept the shallow end of the gene pool pretty empty, see what "progress" brings? LOL.
SR.
Well, I watched Discovery Chanel's show " Feeding Frenzy " about the bears and some African lions.
Some guys plopped themselves in a very strong Lexan cube and placed some yummy treats outside to film what happens, sort of like the land version of a shark cage.
They later placed some human dummies outside the cube with them in it and filmed that too.
They wanted to see if harsh language would dissuade the bears from eating their "dummy" chained down friends.
No dice, the bears grabbed said dummy and took it into the bush and ripped it apart until they realized that plastic was not very tasty.
It was interesting to see how they fed though.
They like to pounce up and down on their food to crack the ribcage and can they run fast from a standing start.
So it seems playing possum would not be a good idea.
From what I gathered most "tourists" or joggers usually stumbled upon a mother bear and her cubs and they got caught in between.
And the others, well hunger would place us on the menu.
Quite eye opening for a city slicker like me in Southern Ontario.
I'd definatly want a 12 guage and as backup perhaps a loyal dog that could buy me some time/warning if I'd be venturing anywhere in the back country.
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Interesting that they would even think that "harsh language" would dissuade a bear or lion from eating someone, goes back to my last comment about the shallow end of the gene pool.
Now moving back to the actual topic of this thread: I just heard that his "Highness the ecogod" Al Gore did not even think it worthwile to turn his lights off on saturday night. Reminds me of last summer when he came to D.C. to speak about "global warming" oops, excuse me, "climate change" he was driven into town in a convoy of limousines & SUV's that were left running outside for hours while he "spoke" about how bad things were & how soon we will all be treading water as the ice melts & the bears drown. I believe this qualifies him as either a hyopcrite or a liar, or both. How typical of liberal elites "do as i say not as i do"!!
SR
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When the world leaders stop talking complete bollix I might begin to take “global warming” seriously, but I doubt it. As a young man way back in the 60’s the talk of the day was global freezing, and if you study the facts now, the Earth is once again cooling.
I hope my spelling is correct just incase Mr Spell Check reads it. ;D ;D
Rob
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Ratman, you can't bring facts into this, that would just screw up the "models" the global warming alarmists have designed. The whole movement is based on "touchy feely", the facts don't matter, the end result dosen't matter, only the good intentions of those pushing the movement matter.
Up until the 1970's the media would cycle back & forth about every 20 to 25 years from global warming (they didn't use those words) to global ice age scenarios, it just depended what decade you were in as to if we were going ot freeze or fry.
SR.
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Lowspeed....I talked to a national park superintendent awhile back and he mused that in the lunchroom back at the parks office, they had just been discussing a denizen of Calgary that had stopped his car on the highway, after seeing a black bear begging, and persuaded his wife to go and try to "hand feed" the cute mother bear while he filmed the whole thing with their hi-def video camera.
Luckily the parks people saw the whole episode begin to unfold and scared the bear away with "bangers". After taking the particulars from the numbskull tourist for prosecution purposes they let him go.
The conversation back at the parks office centered around shooting the tourist with a tranquilizer dart, hanging a radio collar around his neck, sending him by truck back to Calgary and then if he wandered back into the park, shooting him with the 300 mag they use to put down renegade animals.
I thought it was a great idea, kind of ironic.
Stan
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Stan that is tantamount to murder where i come from, any one who would send his wife to feed a wild animal while he filmed the carnage from a distance! uhh, where was that park again? ;D ;D
SR.
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Ratman, you can't bring facts into this, that would just screw up the "models" the global warming alarmists have designed. The whole movement is based on "touchy feely", the facts don't matter, the end result dosen't matter, only the good intentions of those pushing the movement matter.
Up until the 1970's the media would cycle back & forth about every 20 to 25 years from global warming (they didn't use those words) to global ice age scenarios, it just depended what decade you were in as to if we were going ot freeze or fry.
SR.
Thanks Lowspeed, it's nice to know I'm not alone in my thinking on this one. ;D
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Now I'm really worried. Big news up here in Canada that the ski industry is in danger of folding just like the automakers if global warming continues to wreak havoc on the ski hills like it did this year. Arrrrrrrrgh, no skiing???? What will I ever do in the semi-winter? :'(
Stan
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Howdy Folks
I just watched a Nova show about the ice fields in Greenland that are melting ,was a good show. Apparantly 30 yrs ago when they first started monitoring the ice flow it was about 5 feet per year of movement, 10 yrs ago it was approx 50 feet of movement and in 2008 it was approx 150 feet of movement. That movement was the whole i shelf moving not just the ice in a vally that was 3 miles wide. The ice in the valley which was 3 miles wide in one year alone moved 1 mile further north.
It may not seem important but to me there is something going on, the North never received a lot of snow because of the temperatures but with the ocean waters warming up by 3 degrees it is makeing the ice melt at a huge rate plus the air temps are warmer than they used to be but still not enough snow storms in the winter to replace the lost ice from the summer melts.
Just something to think about and be glad i dont live on the coastal areas that will be below sea level in the next 20 to 70 yrs.
Smile, it makes people nervous
Derek
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Yup, exactly the same thing is happening in Antarctica, not just on the "inhabited" peninsula, but now research by real scientists (ie: those not directly supported by the oil industry) has found it's happening all over the continent.
Stan
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I like this article on earth hour......
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/03/liberal_authoritarianism_and_e.html
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Stan,
I thought Canada (in particular) had had superb snowfalls this year, some really shockingly cold weather, etc.?
Now, I know that 1 year is just "weather", wheras mumblety years is "climate" (I believe 30 years is the standard claim), but perhaps you can confirm?
Anyway.... FWIW I'm not prepared to take the likes of Hansen, Schmidt, etc. at face value. They (particularly Hansen) have too much sewn up in the whole Impending Anthropogenic Global Warming Disaster to be independent. And, just like the Warmists will point at any "climate denier" and shout "big oil!"; so we can point back at the Hansen's of this world and shout "big government!". Remember, it's in the Government's interest (be it the US, Canada, UK or EU governments) that Global Warming is (a) man's fault, and (b) can be cured by extra taxation.
The big problem I have with GW (AGW in particular) is - it's all built on computer models. And, as anyone who's ever done any computer modelling will know; a computer model will tell you exactly what you want to hear. Remember, you're in control of both the inputs and the processes. If you assume the inputs are fixed (and this is by no means a given, in the climate modelling world) real readings; you can simply fiddle with the processes until the model fits reality. Then you make your catastrophe predicitons. And, because (in general) the models are "closed source" - not available for public scrutiny, or even peer review - they could be doing anything! Things have improved (thanks to another Canadian - Steve McIntyre over at http://www.climateaudit.org) in fits and starts, but the climate science community is beset with little cliques, bad-mouthing and other unsavoury and unscientific practices.
Then, of course, the model readings don't match up with the predictions! So, they get tweaked, and the "historical accuracy" gets better & better.... but the present day reality continues to turn it's nose up at the modellers.
AS for the readings, well, don't get me started. There's been a huge loss of land weather stations in recent (20-ish) years, to the point now where there's maybe 1/3rd of the peak number of stations. It's not the graph I was looking for, but this illustrates it quite well: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/nvst.html
Anyhoo - the point of this ramble is this: There is far more to this "climate change" malarkey than meets the eye. And there's certainly a hell of a lot more to it than a gradual rise in CO2 concentrations. It's currently impossible to figure the effects mankind has had on the climate, so it's pretty well impossible to decide that man-made CO2 is the issue, cut that off & everything will be hunky-dory. This is not a repeat of the "ozone hole", which turned out to have a simple cause (CFCs in aerosol cans, airconditioners, etc.) and thus a simple solution (worldwide ban on CFCs).
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Where I am, north side just at east end of the ontario lake where St. Lawerance begins, well, snow melted ONE FULL month EARLY and DRY. We did get bit of rain last weekend and some rain other day last week.
Cheers, Wizard
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Another article to "stir the pot" of controversy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html
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Ade...Nope....the ski hill here in Kimberley, as with most in S. BC got a good dump of snow in early December, great skiing until the end of the month and then nothing until late in February. By that time of course, the hill had been skied off! In early March we got a couple of feet, but by then most of the season had gone bye bye. Very disappointing.
I know there's lots of controversy on global warming but I pointed out that here in BC we have been very hard hit by one of the unforseen consequences of it, namely the rise in insect predation. See the thread and pictures using "pine beetle" as a search target.
I have just noticed a new large area on our ski hill that is now dead :'(
I think it's very hard to recognize something as slow and "global" as this phenomenon if you are sitting in a big city or somewhere in the south where there are no tangible effects evident yet. Maybe many people are like the infamous frog in a pot scenario and won't recognize the heat until it's too late to jump.
Stan
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I guess this is the problem with "global" warming; i.e. it's just not global.... e.g. the UK suffered it's coldest winter for many years this year (luckily, I missed most of it) - but then southern Spain where I've been hibernating, has been unusually cold & wet all winter. Wheras last year was a scorcher....
FWIW, I'm living about 500yds from the Atlantic ocean here, and there's no visible evidence of sea level rises (nowhere's flooded in other words).
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Thank you Ade, Dutchman & Listerboy, all very interesting & revealing articles. the climate change crowd could do themselves well to rethink thier stratgy of ridicule & hate, I'm sure that i would be more open to what they say if they said it with less finger pointing & blame & a few more facts from those who know what they are talking about.
Scott R.
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AdeV,
What you said is partly correct.
Please note though, my bees were collecting pollen on the winter solstice and up to Christmas Eve!! They then were tucked up quietly until mid February when they went ballistic with activity.
There was no brood in the hive at that time (probably due to laying late into autumn 2008 and the very cold weather just prior to middle of Feb ) but since then she (the queen) has been laying prolifically and I have already put on some storage space (a super) to prevent the brood nest getting congested with stores.
So all in all this last winter was no real comparison with that of '63 and some more recent. Basically it was just one month of ice and snow (not really THAT bad, but people were just unable to cope with even a small amount of snow). Everyone just seemed to be caught out by the succession of mild winters previously.
Regards, RAB
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I was in ALERT (450 kilometers south of the north pole) in 2007 and they used to have ice caves and tunnels that have been there long before they first opened up the base many years ago but it has only been the last 10 yrs that the caves and tunnels started to melt during the summer,Max temp is a blistering 7- 8 degrees in the summer. Unfortunately when i arrived there the last cave and tunnel had melted the summer before i arrived there, it used to be over 300 feet deep just 4 or 5 years before(2001 or 2002). It was a beautifull area for a rock scenery but the ice is disappearing way toooo fast.
Smile, it makes people nervouse
Derek
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And it drives them crazy wondering what you're smiling about ;D
Anyway, yup, the far North is getting the brunt of the action with global warming, at least when melting of ice and permafrost is concerned. What few people are aware of, and what is most disconcerting to the oil companies, is the amount of permafrost melt that is going on. Don't forget that all of their pipelines up there are supported in the air by giant ice blocks buried in the permafrost every few hundred meters (you can't bury hot crude pipelines in permafrost, duh). If only one of them melts and sinks, the pipeline will rupture. That, along with the fact that they haven't upgraded their pipes in years, plus the fact that some kinds of crude is corrosive, adds up to massive disruption to oil supplies, and you know what that means!
Stan
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This sums up the enviros nicely
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/04/our_planet_is_no_arcadia.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c&feature=related
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I will always like George because he's a child. Looks at the world through a child’s eye and reports back to us in his own honest interpretation. And like many children, he is sometimes wrong. He forgot to mention that the species are departing at an accelerating rate. He forgets that we don’t own the planet and that some of us don’t want to crap in our caves. We don’t need to be responsible because we’re temporary? As C. Brown often concluded “Good Grief!”. And George is dead. Good bye George. Have a nice day. :)
Casey
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Typical article full of "you know that" and "it is a fact that" blah blah blah...You know, I know and most of the public already know that the main purpose of articles like this is to sow doubt. Doubt that cannot be proven is still in the minds of some, still doubt and that's enough for extreme neo cons to put pressure on politicians.
Stan
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Global warming is going to go down as the biggest scam in history. Have you noticed that they now call it climate change not global warming?.The earth has been cooling for the last 10 years despite increases in co2. Co2 is good.They pump it into greenhouses because plants love it. More co2 = more food. The bogus science behind this new religion would never stand up to scrutiny in a court of law.
Interesting weather site
http://www.weatheraction.com/
Piers Corbyn makes a living by making long range weather forecasts based on solar activity.
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The only problem with the science of solar activity is that it hasn't made any lasting record of it's activities! You can't drill down into 10,000 years of ice and find evidence of solar activity like you can Co2 levels. We are only still just beginning to understand the physics of what's really happening inside the sun, while we have overwhelming research by real scientists, thousands of them of the physics behind our climatic patterns.
Stan
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Stan,
The "CO2 causes global warming" argument - in a nutshell - came from ice core reasearch which showed essentially flat levels of CO2 in the "recent" past (for the last, say, 10,000 years); combined with dendro-climatology (tree rings) which showed a rapid rise in temperature (the hockey stick) and "recent" (200 years) of industrial revolution CO2 output (going up...), and - Q.E.D. carbon dioxide = global warming....
Except it doesn't. There's the whole solar thing to take into account. There's the fact that, it transpires, the whole hockey stick graph ends up having been magicked out of a single stand of bristle-cone pines somewhere in California (see www.climateaudit.org; there's loads of posts on there about the bristle cones). The hockey-stick was the core of Al Gore's film, even though it's since proven wrong. It keeps re-appearing in IPCC reports, despite the proven bad science behind it (there was some political wrangling behind the scenes that got the graph back into the 2007 report, despite the fact it shouldn't have been there. It won't be in the next one).
I don't "deny" climate change is happening (the one constant thing about the climate is, it's forever changing!), what I do question, is just how much impact man & his activities is having on it.... and in particular, how paying more tax (for fuel, for building materials, for electricity, for everything) is somehow going to magically fix that, as the politicians grow fat and happy on their "green" taxes.
Anyway... must rush, I have a diesel powered boat to catch :)
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Co2 is good.They pump it into greenhouses because plants love it.
I am not a plant. Are you a plant? Do you live in a green house? I don't live in a greenhouse.
Casey
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OK anybody who's on this forum who's really a plant in disguise, go back 200,000,000 years where you belong. You'd be a lot happier then too with all that delicious Co2 to breathe with all your buddies.
Stan
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Oh darn .. I have been found out ... ok, back into my time machine and back home I go. Bye ....
Jens
NOOO! Don't leave us Jens, we need the oxygen you produce!!
SR
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Guess ill just have to spell it out. More co2=higher crop yields.
You are what you eat ;D
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Hmmmm,
We were what we crapped?
Casey
Oh, hot air does not equal oxygen.
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I personally don't eat crap but i have seen the dog "doo" it on occasion.
& it's not nice what you said about Jens.
SR.
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Casey doesn't seem malicous to me, If anything, i think it was meant to be funny, he may not have realized the connection.
SR.
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You just have to picture Casey sitting in his nice cozy dark room, in his lazyboy with his wireless keyboard on his lap staring at a large screen typing away, to visualize a nice guy with a quirky sense of humour, just like me.
Stan
btw....I see a new "connecting rod" of ice just broke in Antarctica and now it's going to let the comparatively warm ocean water in to melt another huge section of the continent. sniff sniff, last day of skiing today for this year, hope it's not the last.
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you forgot the part about him sitting there with his drink in a hollowed out pineapple, with a little umbrella in it.
Really broken ice huh, that must be whats causing the blizzard in the midwest, no?
SR.
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Oh my Gosh.
I never thought anyone would take this place seriously. Please don't. But now that I'm here:
1. I never wrote that anyone ate crap. When you start pooping strawberry tarts I recommend that you notify Ripley.
2. I wrote that "hot air does not equal oxygen". Now if someone is feeling defensive that might say something.
3. I'm setting here on the lanai watching the sun sink slowly down into the Pacific. Electricity is down to 33 cent a KWH and at 68 degrees who needs HVAC? One might ask; How could life be any better?
And the answer is: The Menehune Energy Lab should be finished in two weeks. Now if I were in Texas, Arizona or California I could start shopping PV equipment because those states have the vision to help their citizens support the electrical power infrastructure. When is that Obama money going to hit the shelves so we God Bless Americans can get on with saving her by eroding the tremendous transfer of wealth from the Western nations to the Mid-East?
Cheers,
Casey
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It's all in fun casey, sit back, relax & watch the worlds weather maker get lower & lower. 8)
Scott R.
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Another article by the "global warming sceptics" ;D
Disclaimer: I am a "global warming sceptic" shamelessly, and unapologetically so. (Not to be confused with "pollution" or "conservation") :)
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/04/no_wonder_climate_alarmists_re.html
Gotta love this thread, it's one of the few I've seen about this subject that doesn't descend into name calling, and demonizing......
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WOW! Mark Morano is getting almost as much press as Obama! He's the guy we talked about a few months ago that got the "slanty" award for writing press releases that were the most "slanted".
Stan
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Slanty? Mebbe he is........mebbe he isn't
Let's see how well he can present his facts and reasoning
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/04/03/global-warming-debate-morano-vs-climateprogresss-romm
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So who gives out those slanty awards Stan? The New York Times?, The Washington Post? Dennis Miller?
Scott R.
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Dear Mr. mkdutchman,
You can watch that video and think the rude jerk that couldn't stop talking long enough to hear anything much more learn anything came out good? I don't have my hemp T-shirt up over my head chanting "The heat is coming, The heat is coming.” but give me a break. You’re SUV either gets over 40 MPG or you need to send another donation to the RNC.
Watch it again, please. If you said you did I’ll do so too.
Casey
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At least Moran didn't resort to name calling like Rohm did & just claim "you made that up!" . You want to talk about slanted, Insin't Rohm the guy that claimed that the Minneapolis bridge collaped because of global warming, now that's slanted.
Scott R.
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Made up like "Clean Coal"?
I didn't say the under-dressed fellow was a saint or necessarily more correct. I wrote that I don't like rude people that consistently interrupt others in a dual presentation. I’d agree with you that there is hype coming from the global warming groups but you did notice that there was no denial of some responsibility on the part of human activity for “change” in weather patterns. Stuff I’m interested in is like who named their sources? What were the credentials of those sources? How do you explain Mt. Kilimanjaro’s disappearing snow cap? Are we going to have to rename Iceland? Do you believe there is actually a clean coal plant? Have you ever donated to the NRC? :)
Casey
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So interupting someone is rude but name calling isin't, OK. I didn't say the weathers not changing, it's weather, it's always changing. do i believe that human beings are why it's changing, no, i don't. thru out history (recorded & unrecorded) the weather has always changed. lots of things affect it. I just don't believe humans have that abillity, hell, the same people who tell you the earth is warming can't tell you what the weather is going to do next week, why should i beleive what they think it's going to do in a hundred years. this Rohm guy says the oceans are going to rise 5 feet, the IPCC report says 17 to 23 inches, even amongst themselves they can't agree. Hell, 15 years ago they were saying we were all going to be dead by now. 25 years ago we were supposed to be going into an ice age. Sources huh, Dr. Hansen (& I use the term Dr loosely) is a nasa scientist & as such is a government employ & they have rules that preclude them from doing what he does, why he's not fired I can't figure. the IPCC report has used the "hockey stick" graph for years when it's been proven wrong for years. the fact the Hansen refuses to debate anyone about his "findings" should tell the whole story. The fact that they use CO2 as THE green house gas when water vapor is a much better green house gas is telling, it tells you that they haven't figured out how to tax water vapor, which is the real driving factor behind this. the fact that they ignore the sun completely which is the number one, excuse me, the only driver of earth temperatures is also telling. Dont know about Mt. killamanjaro's snow cap, but the japs aren't goin along with the IPCC crap. Iceland has mostly been free of ice since the last ice age, they called it iceland to keep people from coming there, Greenland on the otherhand has been coverd with ice & they called it that to get people to come there, must have been libs named it. clean coal, no. though some coal power plants are cleaner that others, the newest ones have things called "scrubbers" on them, they use scrubbers on diesels running in tunnels & mines to keep from killing the people in there. Rohm also says more people work in wind power that coal mines, in coal mines yes, in the coal industry no, another lib trick, there are also people who transport the coal, turn some into briquets, coal power plant workers etc. they don't like to include everybody when it doesn't suit thier statistics, as an aside Shell who was a big player in wind power just dumped thier wind power program, why? too expensive to maintain, no profit. I know, I know, profit is bad, Obama told me so. unless you are actually running a business. have I ever donated to the NRC the nuclear regulatory commission? no, i have not. but I will if they will build more nuke plants.
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A question for mr al hore
I dont know how to ask him directly, so I'll ask it here. The bas#$@& wouldn't ,or couldn't answer it anyway,so it's a mute question anyway.
" If the climate is warming, then why the hell is it snowing in near the middle of April in balmy WV? Huh? Answer that asshole Gore
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All, or near all, politicians are the same. You never get a straight answer. A bit like reading astrology predictions - all answers for all people. If it works for just one (who shouts it from high) they have a ball.
OK here goes. Climate change may be caused or part caused by human activity - who knows, we have messed up on so many things recently (thalidomide, DDT, CFCs, neonicotinoids(?), other pesticides, maybe AIDS even, nuclear pollution, BSE, Foot and Mouth (in UK), dioxins, Bhopal, Chernobyl, to name but a few. Next might be the GE disaster mistake (which WILL be made sooner or later - but WILL be, at some time).
Climate change was termed 'global warming' but the uneducated masses thought it was just going to get a little warmer - by a degree or two (who cares if it is degrees F, or K). So the term has been changed to 'climate change' to embrace the fact that not all areas will see a relatively small increase in temperature, just a climate change which might mean wild swings between winter and summer seasons - different than the 'norm' for the past who knows how long.
For instance, if the Gulf Stream currents change direction, the UK could join up for Scandinavian winters (and drier summers?). Who knows?
The simple fact is this planet cannot sustain the population of homo sapiens if we continue to use up the natural resources at the rate we are doing, much less the projected requirements for an expanding population expecting higher than third world standards. Mother nature may well intervene and make a lot of changes necessary. It might be down to our activities rather than Mother Nature.
About 500 years ago the climate in Britain was much different from what it is now. Don't know how long it stayed with a 'more like current mediterranean' climate, but they could grow grapes quite easily in middle England at that time, so I understand.
So the simple answer is you get the weather whether you like, it or not. If in the future we find it was all down to mankind and it was ignored, they, the future generations, will have to pay the price for our folly. Can we take the chance and do nothing. Stick our heads in the sand like the proverbial ostrich?
Tough, that is the weather you are having. Live with it 'cos it ain't likely to go away in the next five years or even perhaps fifty years. Asshole Gore may give you a more eloquent answer, but mine is just that. Tough. That is climate change you are experiencing. One way or the other. Natural cycle or down to mankind? I haven't the foggiest idea, but like I said earlier in the rant - mankind has a lot to answer for. Cutting down the equatorial rain forests seemed like a good idea 40 years ago. Not such a hot idea these days, is it?
Regards, RAB
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A question for mr al hore
I dont know how to ask him directly, so I'll ask it here. The bas#$@& wouldn't ,or couldn't answer it anyway,so it's a mute question anyway.
" If the climate is warming, then why the hell is it snowing in near the middle of April in balmy WV? Huh? Answer that asshole Gore
West virginia I might expect. why is it smowing in atlanta, georgia???
SR.
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couldn't access the forum at all, this is the first I've been back since my last post
Lowgear,
I watched the whole thing, (I'm assuming you did too) so tell me, how many times did Rohm say "he's making stuff up"? And did you catch his threefold assertion right at the beginning that "the earth's temperature will rise by 10-15 degreesF, sea levels will rise by five feet, and one third of the planet will be desert"? Please. Considering that the IPCC commission/panel (and BTW it's a governing body NOT a science body, big difference there) doesn't even make such outlandish claims, if Rohm wasn't fearmongering then what was he doing? Certainly not speaking facts
And no, I don't like Morano's way of constantly interrupting Rohm, but I like Rohm's haughtiness and fearmongering even less
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Hey guys,
They’re both somewhat full of crap. I don't even know how much of their own hot air they believe.
Let's try it again:
I don't like talk shows where it's a yelling or rudeness match. I hung in on this one so I didn't miss any "important" points.
If I'm lying and you call me a liar then you are not a name caller – you’re just calling attention to my modus operandi (SP?). In either case, I might just deny it – You?
For The Record:
I haven’t taken an extremist stand on either side. I do believe we are treating the planet as if it were a Micky D’s hamburger wrapper. This is a very special rock! We should treat it with respect and gratitude. As we continue to populate our planet at greater and greater levels of humans the finiteness of this relatively enormous pond will reveal itself to us all. I’m glad my family isn’t dependent on the rain forests at the base of Kilimanjaro (oops, they’re gone) and I’m not going to shop beach property on Iceland no matter how prudent this investment might be. That beach property search goes for the Sahara Tropical Condominium projects too.
I agree the planet has been in flux since the beginning. The question is how much pressure are we contributing?
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OK, here's some guys who don't yell, or interrupt and their findings.
Stan
http://www.popsci.com.au/environment/article/2009-04/nasa-study-shows-thinning-arctic-sea-ice
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Sea ice decline is in response to a warming trend we've seen in the Arctic for the past 30 years," said Meier. "We're heading towards an Arctic that won't have any summer sea ice in 20-30 years -- the most recent research indicates that the last time that happened was at least 5,500 years ago."
Yeah thank god that great Grampa to the power of 12 Al Gore warned the Neanderthals and were able to stop global warming last time around. There is hope for us yet :D
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So that's why we haven't found any fossils of SUV's in any of the archealogical digs in Africa or Southern Europe! ;D
Stan
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I just had to add this one yet :)
Court case in britian, "Global Warming Ruled a Religion by British Judge"
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/04/global_warming_ruled_a_religio.html
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Now thats a great idea! Can't teach global warming in schools & government can't promote global warming "theories" because they aren't facts, they are based on beliefs, nothing more than religious beliefs. Wish I had thought of it!
Scott R