Lister Engine Forum

Alternative fuels => Waste Vegetable Oil => Topic started by: captfred on March 21, 2008, 12:53:50 AM

Title: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: captfred on March 21, 2008, 12:53:50 AM
Check this video out on wvo glycerol separation with high voltage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEEW3V-j6zs

Anyone tried this?  Salt-cracking was a waste of time, wonder if this would be worth the effort?

Cheers, Fred
Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: Doug on March 21, 2008, 01:20:14 AM
Not sure.....

I don't understand if he is using electricity to stir the hell out of the mixture or if he is just zapping oil.

I can't see it as just zapping oil since you can't pick off the Glycerol without replacing it with another alcohol ( usualy Methanol ).

Must just be a way of mixing.

Alcohols are conductive so there is some logic to the current drop as the glycerol drops out.

Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: Doug on March 21, 2008, 02:15:51 AM
Yes.

Glycerol is an Alcohol, long and complicated and it ads to the viscosity.

Remove it and replace a short and simple methanopl and you thin the oil considerably.

Glycerol also burns dirty and causes a lot of trouble
Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: biobill on March 21, 2008, 11:29:39 AM
 That's pretty cool, I wish Quinn or one of the other "chemist types" would comment. Seems to me like the separation would be unstable and would revert to a triglyceride when the voltage was removed if there was nothing else for the glycerol to bond to. (?) Or was it biodiesel he was cleaning up? The oil looked pretty thin. Wonder how the "watts in" compares to the potential "watts out"?
     Bill
Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: Doug on March 22, 2008, 04:51:09 PM
very low power.....
Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: mike90045 on March 24, 2008, 12:39:37 PM
very low power.....

 2,000 volts, at 4 mA  = 80 watts.
Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: biobill on March 24, 2008, 01:14:34 PM
OOPs, after watching again I realized I completely missed the point of what he was doing - thought he was converting veg oil, not settling reacted biodiesel.
Well that could certainly speed up the process, generally I allow at least 8hrs for settling. I wonder how it would scale up? I run between 150 and 200 gal batches. Maybe an array of electrodes alternating + and -? (It is DC isn't it?) Carbon steel electrodes OK? A transformer and a rectifier running off 110v for power? Am I going to hurt myself? :D
                                        Bill
Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: dieseldave on March 24, 2008, 04:49:31 PM

              CALL IT:  The Lister/Mannhatten project!
Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: Quinnf on March 24, 2008, 05:47:06 PM
Biobill,

I felt my ears burning and saw you invoked my name.  Problem is, my area is pharmaceutical research/development, not organic chemistry which is what this is, so I try to stick with what I know, so far as offering opinions goes.

That said, I DO know that burning any oil with glycerol in it is like dumping sugar in a car's gas tank.  You get an awful lot of incomplete combustion, resulting in carbon deposition on valves, combustion chamber, etc.  If you can, it's best to remove the stuff.  As far as electrolytic separation, I'd have to have someone explain the mechanism to me, because I've never heard of that before as a method of separating organic solutions.

Sorry I'm not more help.

Quinn
Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: mike90045 on March 24, 2008, 07:46:16 PM
I think it's been previously reacted with methanol . This was just a way to speed up the process.  Too bad, because at first glance, and with his slightly misleading title, all you need ids electricity.  And lye, and methanol and everything else. 

80 watts to process a pint.   So a 15 gallon drum .......   yikes !
Title: Re: Electrostatic glycerol separation
Post by: Doug on March 24, 2008, 11:00:20 PM
very low power.....

 2,000 volts, at 4 mA¬† = 80 watts.

Last Friday.....

13.8 kV, 50 - 200 amp arcing fault.
High power ( Hell's Plasma Cutter )