Lister Engine Forum
Alternative fuels => Waste Vegetable Oil => Topic started by: Stan on February 13, 2008, 07:51:32 PM
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Hi guys...I normally don't hang out in this section of the forum but as my Lister 6/1 gets nearer to completion (rebuild) I am getting more interested in running waste veggie oil. When I was a kid back home on the farm, my father always filtered our diesel and gas through an old 10 gallon felt cowboy hat. It took out all the crud as well as all the water normally found in 45 gallon drums.
Has anyone tried using felt cloth to filter wvo, and did you ever find a "puddle" of water in the bottom when you finished filtering? I know John (13) uses cloths of various kinds to filter but didn't think to ask him if he used "felt" specifically when I visited.
Stan
Moved here from motor oil...
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I have a filtering funnel that will remove debris and water from fuel. It is good for bulk transfers, but is a bit wasteful for fill ups as about a cup of fuel remains in the bottom of the funnel. I believe it came from west marine.
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Would this be it?
Stan
(http://images.westmarine.com/full/1933225.jpg)
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Yes!
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Thanks, I get the principle....It's the same as the "cascading barrels" filter.
Stan
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My understanding is that it is a Teflon coated 195 micron screen. I guess that the mesh is small enough and with the Teflon has enough surface tension that won't pass water. It seems to work as long as the water is not emulsified in the fuel.
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Isn't the large part of the funnel solid on the bottom and the fuel rises up and drains down the raised center part? I can't tell for sure from the pic but you would be able to describe it to me in more detail.
Stan
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Yes the screen is in the center column. They would be nicer if the screen was pleated, however I think the general purpose of these funnels is to watch as your boat tank is being filled at the dock. If water/debris shows up during fueling you stop and get your fuel from another source.
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OK, thanks Tom....That's all the info I need to build my own system. I have a penchant for doing things my way, especially as, being the packrat that I am, I have lots of "stuff" lying around to do things with. I'm going to build a modified cascade type filter using 3 or 4, five gallon containers with "top to bottom" connections. I'll include a couple of home made filters to polish the wvo at the final stage and a coarse filter at the beginning.
Stan
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Hello Stan
Ive just started to sort out what i am going to do regards using wvo.I like the idea of cascading barrels so will try to use it if i can find the room.From the CSOG someone suggested using jeans as a first filter which i will try(Except modern jeans which come with holes).I would like to know what you intend to do with heating and filtering at time of use? I have just bought a filter housing off ebay that takes 10 micron filters.I was going to mount this after a exhaust heatex and the ip.
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I'm lazy and cheap, I'm going to wait till summer and do it when it's 90 deg F outside and I can set the cascading drums in the sun ;D
I figure I can use a little anti-fungal preservative and make sure the water is all gone and it'll be able to keep from smelling up the neighbourhood for at least a year.
As for heating the wvo in the winter so it'll burn more effectively, 6 turns of 1/4" copper around the exhaust pipe should do the trick, with both starting and stopping on regular diesel.
Stan
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The 6 loops of copper around the exhaust is what i had when i was experimenting last year.I was a bit concerned about the veg cooking in the loops while running on Diesel.I have made up a plate heater that could be moved away from the exhaust untill ready.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2184738220100808385xIHrwt
I havent tried it yet but it should work ok.Then i thought if i set up a thermosyphon loop to the tank, the oil would be continually moving and so not cook in the heatex.So i could leave it in place.I could T off the hot side to the ip.
Can you see light through the felt? I think felt would make a good fine filter material but i would heat the oil first.
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There is just one separator inside.The oil goes up to the end then comes back.The exhaust runs at about 210 C at most which is a bit close to the melting point of solder for my liking but i have used Lead free solder which melts around 20`C hotter.As long as i never run it dry i should be ok.I like to run things as simple as possible so if i can not get thermosyphon to work i would just run the oil through by gravity and collect it in a container on the floor. Then again i could just release it from the exhaust which was my original plan.
Going back to felt and filters i have just boiled by sock filter and do not fancy doing it again.I want a supply of cheap or free cloth to make a filter then throw away. Far less hassle.
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I just found a filter at our local Home Hardware store called a "Mrfunnel". I got the smaller F1 size good for amounts up to what comes out of a 5 gal size can, for half price $7.49. It's website complete with movie is found at www.mrfunnel.com
Check it out, it looks great, and at a good price. There are much bigger models available too, presumably at a bigger price.
Stan
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That is a nice piece off kit. I would like to know why its $30 in the UK? >:(
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I just found a filter at our local Home Hardware store called a "Mrfunnel". I got the smaller F1 size good for amounts up to what comes out of a 5 gal size can, for half price $7.49. It's website complete with movie is found at www.mrfunnel.com
Check it out, it looks great, and at a good price. There are much bigger models available too, presumably at a bigger price.
Stan
The mesh is SO fine in it, only hot oil is likely to make it through. I don't see how cold oil (70F) could get thru it. Does look like a great idea.
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I can't say for sure why it is twice the price over there, but when I was in England last, a couple of years ago, just about everything in Cambridge (where I was staying with my daughter) was just about twice the price of the exact same item here in Canada. I priced out clothes, hardware, wood, tools, gasoline, groceries electronics etc. Houses were another thing, comparable single family houses were 4 to 5 times the price. Except new cars they were the same price! Who can figure that one out. I talked to a couple of teachers and discovered they made even less than a comparable canadian teacher? I coudn't figure out how so many people could afford to eat out as much as they did, and buy all the stuff they had, on their salaries.
stan
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I have a friend at work who came over from vancouver island a few years ago.I told him you can work your nuts off over here and get nowhere and he agreed.You think your getting somewhere then the government rapes you of more money.Emigration is soaring and he is trying to persuade me to move to Canada. Its very tempting.He brought his culture over with him and now most of our wildlife is in his fridge.
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I can say for a fact that the creamy fryer oil I have will not go through the funnel, heated on not. Diesel pours right through. I really need to get the bio-diesel processor going, along with a million and one other things needed to finish the house.
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the creamy fryer oil
Most likely will need heating/boiling, or a quick trip thru a centrifugal filter, to get the water out.
I'd then add more water, mix well, and extract again, to get the rest of the soap/detergent out. Then you may have burnable oil.
Try a quart on a stove, and see how it comes out?
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Lend...I was looking closely at the big black squirrels in the parks over there once I priced out meat a the supermarket. I've got a nice strong slingshot with an armrest that fires small ball bearings very accurately. I could have knocked off a bunch of them easily. Maybe 1/3 lb of meat per squirrel, should be tasty with a little hang time, soaking in salt water overnight and a few minutes on the bbq. (we need a smilie with licking lips, this one just doesn't cut it :P
Stan
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Only second generation Italians eat squirls lol....
No just kidding.
Buy a bang stick shoot some birds and deep fry them.
Got squirls try this.
Stupid ugly little buggers
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hRR4bOquEKQ
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a squirrel is just a rat in a better looking suit/sid
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I had a realy nice old tube radio in my shed. I didn't know it was there until after I moved in and start cleaning.
Squirls made a nest inside and ate the wiring.
I hate the dirty little buggers and shoot them on sight.
They eat the seed for my birds chew my garden flowers and do nothing good........
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had trouble with squirrels in the bird feeder/ set a small metal pan on the ground and put some bird feed in it..put a spark plug in the pan hooked to a model T buzz coil// ran the wires to the deck and wait with a cold one. when the squirrel stands in the pan.just touch the wires to a battery// most squirrels will get about 4 feet in the air and 2-3 complete turns//makes a cold beer go down better/sid
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I dont think there squirrels i think they are cats.Ive never eaten a cat before.I just hope my neighbor doesn't find out ;D or were they the very large mice we have that used to carry the plague.
Meanwhile back at the ranch(shed)i tried out a wvo thermosyphon and it worked.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2514037660100808385Utgpil
I gave the copper pipe the once over with a torch so it knew which way to go then of it went.I hope you appreciate the vast expense and sophistication that went into this setup.
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What would happen if you took a few turns of copper pipe around the exhaust pipe, with the cold "inlet" coming up from about 6" below, and the "hot" going straight up for 6" or so then, back to the tank. Do you think it would thermosyphon? Maybe someone could rig that up since Penelope isn't ready to be fired up yet?
Not as elegant as yours lend... but simpler with no fabrication involved.
Stan
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Ive never eaten a cat before..
I have.....
Bobcat, fry them up with some pork, onions and garlic. Getthem young and they're good. And I don't feel the slightest bit of guilt, a barn cat eats mice and does you a favour. A bobcat eats your chickens.
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I used to leave a swath of oats along the back field because there were too many rocks to cut. Used to break teeth like crazy. The bears would come out of the bush and sit down in the oats in late Sept and gather an armfull of stalks, open their mouths and eat the oat heads. They'd do that all day long. After a couple of weeks I'd go out on a Saturday morning and pot a nice fat one, get the tractor and bring him in to clean and skin him. They have a layer of fat about 6" thick under their skin but real nice lean meat on them. yum yum, nothing like grain fed bear!
Stan
So how would wvo thermosyphon using a copper coil?
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Don't get me started on bears.
I think we should re introduce the Black bear to southern Ontario, down town Toronto.
I hate bears too, unless wrapped in a sausage casing....
Bring back the spring bear hunt, buggers around here now have no issue at all wandering around spring and summer no fear of man. I live in the burbs where bears should fear treading.
Thermosyphon copper coils ........
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I know what you mean Doug.....We have an even more dangerous animal roaming around Kimberley. They are called the "BE BEAR AWARE COMMITTEE" They roam around sneaking into your yard, picking your apples and carrying them away, getting funding from the gov't, preaching about how noble and beautiful bears are.
I found a bear in the next door neighbours carport last summer. A nice big 2 yr old. I charged it growling and yelling at it. It looked like it was fairly nervous and not too hungrey, obviously out of it's territory. It stood up and looked at me but didn't turn sideways, flap his ears or lay them back so I kept going. Just as I got to my go-no-go line he turned and ran off down the laneway.
My next door neighbbour on the other side came running up and started berating me for being a stupid idiot. I just told him I knew bears and this one wasn't going to be a problem but that he shouldn't try that at his house, he should leave it up to experts. He still walks over to the other side of the street when he sees me probably because he thinks I'm insane.
Crossbow. Silent. Efficient.
Stan
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Is the crossbow for the neighbour or the Bear ?
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Neither, both would be illegal :-X
Stan
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Wrapped a coil around the exhaust today and tried to thermosphon .Failed.Even with the hotside pipe heated it failed to move.So now we know :-\
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I have an MNR guy up the road two houses.
He sets up a trap ever now and then but they are smart and once trapped learn quick.
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Lend...bummer! Oh well, it works when it's on a gravity fuel feed on the way to the filter.
Stan
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Yes a coil and gravity works fine,its what i was using when experimenting.I was just concerned about the oil in the coil festering when i was running on Diesel.Thats why i made that plate thing.Once iam up and running on wvo all the time ill probably make another coil and use the plate for fuel processing.