Lister Engine Forum
Alternative fuels => Waste Motor Oil => Topic started by: Incredilion on June 06, 2007, 04:39:12 AM
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Hi Folks, I just thought I'd let you know that I posted a couple of pics of my brand spankin' new waste oil prurification machine.
Any comments about my bad plumbing unappreciated from the start ;-).
Chris
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where are they posted?
Zeke
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I'm sorry. There's a couple on coppermine.
I tried to post 5, but the pics were too big, it allowed me two.
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Jens-
You're right, it is kinda serious. I hope it works anywhere near to it's advertised numbers.
The barrel thing is the filter housing, 3 filters inside of it. The water seperator is underneath, and on the other pic you can see the sight gauge (to see how much water has been picked up).
The white barrel next to the purifier is a mixing barrel. I use it for mixing winter fuels.
I haven't run anything through it yet, but I may tomorrow. Today, I made arrangements with a lab to analyze the oils, prior to filter, with one, two & three passes. The machine is SUPPOSED to clean the oil to 2-5 microns and remove water to 100 parts per million, (which is the same water standard as the diesel you get at the pumps).
Chris
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Jens-
You're right, it is kinda serious. I hope it works anywhere near to it's advertised numbers.
The barrel thing is the filter housing, 3 filters inside of it. The water seperator is underneath, and on the other pic you can see the sight gauge (to see how much water has been picked up).
The white barrel next to the purifier is a mixing barrel. I use it for mixing winter fuels.
I haven't run anything through it yet, but I may tomorrow. Today, I made arrangements with a lab to analyze the oils, prior to filter, with one, two & three passes. The machine is SUPPOSED to clean the oil to 2-5 microns and remove water to 100 parts per million, (which is the same water standard as the diesel you get at the pumps).
Chris
Chris -
Did you make that unit, or purchase it? If you purchased it, do you mind sharing what it costs?
I've been looking at the simplecentrifuge.com site, and unless something better shows up, I'll probably buy one of their kits in a month or two. It seems... well... simple. However, I don't know if it's good down to the 2 micron level, though I'd imagine that's just a function of how long you leave the oil in the separator. While the centrifuge requires power to operate, the downside of other filter methods is that they require filter changes, so I'm guessing the cost is probably not that different, especially if I have "spare" power from the Lister that would otherwise go to waste during low-load situations. However, I'd be interested in hearing if you've made the comparison as well and why you went with a filter-only system.
JT
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JT,
No, I didn't make it. I did purchase it, and I have a Distribution Agreement with the company it came from. I really don't want to quote any prices right now, as I'm not ready to offer it to the public yet as my testing isn't complete.
I also liked the centrifuges, but there were a couple of things that made me go towards a filter-based system.
I don't want to have to heat my oil, as it takes lotsa energy to do that. You need to heat the oil going through a centrifuge, or at least that's what the manufacturer's told me.
The water seperation qualities of the centrifuge's aren't nearly as good as the filter based systems. Again, what I have been told by the manufacturers.
The volume of centifuges isn't nearly what I am SUPPOSED to get through the filters. The system I have is listed to produce 150 gallons an hour, plus or minus.
Also, my filters are cleanable, so replacement isn't necessary. I don't know how long it will take to clog them up, although they really are monsters.
I went & looked at the site you listed, and I think it looks pretty good. If it cleans the oil well (and I don't know why it wouldn't), all you would need to do is dewater it decently & you're all set.
Price wise, I can tell you that the system I have cost me (as a distributor) a lot more than the centrifuge on that site.
I did a lot of looking around, research wise, and I came to the conclusion that all of the systems have a downfall of sorts, including the one I have. I'm not looking forward to cleaning filters, on the other hand, I can filter oil fast, all the way (per literature) up to 50% water. I wanted something that was industrial grade, that was made by a larger company. The model I have is actually the manufactureres smallest system, so I believe that it probably will work as advertised. (HOPEFULLY).
If it does, I'll start offering them to the public in the next 60 days.
Chris
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A little update.....
Today, I finally was able to turn the machine on & see it work.
The good:
I believe that the company that manufactures the machine based their volume specifications on fairly well used filters, or on REALLY bad oil. I passed cold waste oil (63 degrees) through the machine at a rate of 6.28 GPM. That's 375 Gallons per hour, and I was REALLY conservative in my estimates. The machine passed 6.28 gallons in a total of less than 50 seconds. That's a Lot of oil fast.
The bad:
There's a circuit breaker inside the panel that kicks out after between 35 & 55 seconds. I'm not sure why it kicks out, wether it's seeing too much resistance at the motor, or it's a bad breaker, or if the transformer (that indicates the machine is set up for 50HZ instead of 60) is either set wrong or is bad. I don't know, but the emails are flying across the globe! ( I WILL prevail).
The UGLY.
I plumbed my mixing tank this morning to take the newly processed oil. Before I was finished, I took it outside & filled it up with water. It had a small leak. So, I went & got another 2 inch valve & nipple, & installed it, took it outside & made sure it didn't leak.
Took it inside, & (excitedly) started the Purifier.
Standing there smiling at myself, I decided to go over to the tank & take a closer look at the oil coming into it.
The floor was slippery.
I look down & figure out to my horror that I indeed left the new valve OPEN.
Luckily, I put only about a gallon or so on the ground.
Waste oil goes a long way.......
Anyways, I'm encouraged.
The machine does indeed filter, & FAST. I do have a couple of samples for the lab, and I just need to figure out what the deal is with the breaker.
Chris
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Regarding the circuit breaker tripping:
You may want to check the nameplate on the motor. If it is only rated for 50 Hz, this may the problem.
Another possibility is that you have a dual voltage motor and the circuit breaker was sized for the higher voltage. Check the motor FLA (Full Load Amps) rating against the size of the circuit breaker. You want the circuit breaker to be about 125% of the FLA.
Yet another possibility is that the motor was sized to run the pump with 50 Hz power and can't handle the load at the higher RPM caused by running on 60 Hz.
By the way, is the motor getting warm?
If you can get your hands on a current probe, I suggest measuring the motor current and checking that against the FLA rating on the nameplate. The motor current should measure less than the FLA rating. Lower current measurements are better. :D
Best regards,
Andy Hall
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Andy,
Thank you very kindly.
I didn't have time today to mess with it, but hopefully this weekend....
However, I did run my HOUSE on my 6/1 for the first time today. I was running it on 240VAC, and found that the load in my house needs some balancing. Also, every 2 mintues or so, there seems to be a load (about 6-12amps) that comes for about 10-15 seconds then goes away. I don't know what it is, but I do know it's in my main panel. (I also have a subpanel).
Anyways, again, thanks.
Chris
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That's a pretty quick cycle for something like a fridge or a freezer, if it was A/C you'd know about it. Do you pump your own water?
If you can't find it by tracking you could start shutting off one breaker at a time until the cyclic load is gone. How much load are you seeing? can you measure it or just hear the 6/1 grunt every so often?
RC
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Chris, got a sump pump?
Paul
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RC-
I do pump my own water, I have a well that's 450 feet deep. I suppose it could be that. I was planning to shut off one breaker at a time & then see if I can find it. I'm using a clamp on amp meter, and the load on one leg is going from 5-6 amps up to 12-15 amps. You can hear the generator grunt when it haooens, it's real obvious. Kinda weird, I also lost the line in my garage that feeds my freezer. It just stopped working, but all of the breakers have power on them.
Like I said, you can hear the generator/Lister start to work hard, & it only lasts for 10-15 seconds, then it's basically gone. The balancing I need to do is because the house is pulling (idling) 5-6 amps on one leg & 3 on the other. I think I can make that better.
Paul-
No sump pump. (Almost wish I did then I'd know what was causing the issue).
Chris
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incredilion--
The grunting and the freezer are probably the same problem. My big chest freezer compressor sometimes got 'stuck' and would try to start for about six seconds and pull enough amps to grunt the Lister but then an internal overload in the freezer would kick out and kill the load, but would reset itself and try to start again.
The solution is to unplug the freezer for about an hour then try it again.
I have a 25 cu ft chest freezer sitting here free for the taking. I bought a 7.5 from Home Depot but even it makes not only the Lister grunt but I can hear it start when the 15Kw Onan is running it.
Off grid refrigeration needs should be met with propane. I wish there were more products to choose from.
I bought a 1944 Servel propane fridge from a sheep herder ($10) and LOVE it. I wish it had a matching chest freezer.
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hotater,
Thank you for the info. You know, the line that went dead in my garage is the same one that feeds my freezer. I guess I never thoguth about that freezer casusing the issue, as I tested it with a Kill-A-Watt & when running was only drawing 140 watts. It is a chest freezer, but, man, I didn't think it would cause me any troubles. My fridge is a new LG, 26 CF, and it ran fine. According to the dtatplate, it uses 3.2Amps.
I'll try your solution tomorrow, as I think I'm finally going to have some more time to play with it then.
Again, thanks.
Chris
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hotater,
Thank you for the info. You know, the line that went dead in my garage is the same one that feeds my freezer. I guess I never thoguth about that freezer casusing the issue, as I tested it with a Kill-A-Watt & when running was only drawing 140 watts. It is a chest freezer, but, man, I didn't think it would cause me any troubles. My fridge is a new LG, 26 CF, and it ran fine. According to the dtatplate, it uses 3.2Amps.
I'll try your solution tomorrow, as I think I'm finally going to have some more time to play with it then.
Again, thanks.
Chris
Chris,
As you may know, refrigeration compressors often take 3X or more the normal run current to get started. If your wire feeding the garage where the freezer is, is a long 14 gauge run the voltage can drop a lot as seen at the freezer outlet when trying to start, causing a start failure. You may find that by upgrading to a larger conductor size in the long freezer line, to #12 or #10 AWG that the problem disappears. This is frequently an issue with wimpy #14 gauge house wiring and window air conditioners. Just because particular wiring is deemed up to code by morons does not mean it is good enough to operate properly.
Had an outage here today mid afternoon that lasted several hours during a brutal storm. Fired up my DIY VW diesel plant that does 9 kW, 3-phase with a bit less than that available at the house. Today was a central aircon day and the only load I lifted at the main house panel was the electric hot water tank. Had microwave oven, one element on the stovetop boiling K-dinner, air conditioner going, fridge and deep freeze, well pump, sump pump, TV, computer, etc. all going and my power (122 volts per leg) was just as stiff and stable as shore power. I recently upgraded the grossly undersized 5 kVA, 3-phase stepdown xfmer in the generator room (my ST type head outputs 485 volts) to a heavy, oversiized 30 kVA unit and what a difference! Now I can pull overloads on the genset and get full continuous power without bad smells and worry of limiting load durations. It took me a long time to find a suitable replacement xfmer that met my lack of a budget.
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Chris:
you have two things working against you with refrigeration
1. their induction motors draw a butt load of power to start up, usually 3 to 5 times their rated running current, and
2. if it fails to come up to starting speed, the start winding will heat up and kick out the safety, which is just that a safety
not something that is designed to cycle repeatedly.
the problem is the compressor builds head pressure on the start winding, and if it does not have time to dissipate before the next
attempt to start, the unit will be starting against pressure which loads the motor even harder, draws even more starting amps, which in
turn aggravates the whole problem and kicks out the safety again, (wash, rinse and repeat sort of thing)
hotaters suggestion of unplugging the unit for an hour is a sound suggestion, this gives the unit time to equalize pressure, cool down the safety
and make for an easier start.
i have a little fridge about 2 ft cube, it run's at ~2 amps, but pulls over 15 to start up!!
i would imagine their is also a power factor shift taking place that adds even more problems to startup.
bob g
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Bob & RCA,
Thanks for your help, I appreciate the information.
I started it up again, and applied all the loads again & went straight to the freezer & unplugged it. Still had the same something pulling her down.....
Went into the panel & started the process of elimination.
Here's what I found:
We had an addition put on the house in '97. It's one room, a living room, and evidently we must have been out of breakers because he installed one of those split breakers, where you have 2 15 amp breakers (that are smaller in size) coming out of a spot where normally there'd be a single 10 or 20A breaker.
Anyways, that was the initial culprit. I tracked down what the deal was, and one side of that breaker was/is feeding the lights in that room, the overheads. When thrown alone, no problem.
The other one though, boy was that the one. Come to find out, it went to right here, where I'm sitting. To our UPS. That has about a (lot) of things plugged into it.
When the UPS was disconnected, problem disappeared.
So.....
I'm thinking UPS sees power interrupted & comes on. I enable Lister & power comes back. UPS decides all is good, tries to both feed normal power to all devices plugged in & also recharge itself- at the same time. The draw, like I said, went from 5-6 amps on one leg to 12-15, instantaneously. To the Generator's credit, it only went down to 58HZ, but I'm supposing that's enough to have the UPS decide that it's not going to start?
I dunno.
In any case, I've got an electrician coming out this week. We'll fix that circuit, and once off the grid probably get rid of the UPS, as I'll be on an inverter with large batteries.
Again, thank you all for your help- it's much appreciated.
Chris
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Ah a UPS.. you never mentioned you had one of those in the house! And the symptoms you're describing are exactly how they work too. What kind is it? if it's an APC perhaps you can change the sensitivity a bit so it doesn't take over until the power gets a bit dirtier.
Having a huge battery bank and a top rate inverter is really just an expensive UPS. The batteries make the difference. On a UPS if you do constant runs on battery they won't last long. The proper deep cycle batts you use for inverters can take more of a cycling and still recharge nicely.
Splitting breakers isn't necessarily bad. Better than what I found in my house when I bought it, two separate branch circuits being fed from a double ganged 30amp breaker. Sometimes you scratch your head and wonder "what were they thinking".
RC
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RC-
You know, I would have never thought about it being the problem.
It is an APC, so maybe I can change the sensitivity a bit. My wife told me she could hear it trying to start, then kicking out over & over.
The batteries/inverter I have are:
2- 24V 875AH Forklift Batteries & a Magnum 4448 Inverter Charger.
My idea is to run the gens in the daytime, & run the batteries at night. We'll have to see how it goes, but I have aother set of batteries coming soon, so I'll have 4 total. Man, those batteries are HEAVY!!! 1800 pounds each. My little Kobelco Mini-Excavator works hard to deal with 'em.
I was looking at how they did that, (split the breakers) and it looks like they used the same neutral... this is no good, right?
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I have had problems with my big UPS on the computer not liking the power provided from my genset in the past and therefore cycling in and out continuously, draining it`s batteries in the process even though the generator is supplying sufficient energy in the primary mains circuit. Fortunately it likes the power that I now get from my VW genset, thinking it is every bit as good as the store bought electricity.
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I was looking at how they did that, (split the breakers) and it looks like they used the same neutral... this is no good, right?
This is acceptable if the breakers are on separate phases, but NOT ok if they are on the same phase.
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RCA-
I think that's the deal with my UPS, too. It just deosn't LIKE the power from the Lister. I wonder what it's tolerances are? The worst I saw cycles get was 58.2, and I'd have thought that was good enough. Oh well, I'll try, like RC said, to try to change the parameters that make it accept or not accept power.
Mikey-
I really believe that hey are on the same phase. It's a breaker that's the same size as the other ones, with 2 real small (1/2 size) breakers in it. The way my panel is designed, I don't think that that breaker could get power from both phases, physically. I'll look at it again (AFTER I get off my computer) ;-).
If so, I'm assuming that one of the loads just need to be put on the other phase, right?
Thanks,
Chris
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RCA-
I think that's the deal with my UPS, too. It just deosn't LIKE the power from the Lister. I wonder what it's tolerances are? The worst I saw cycles get was 58.2, and I'd have thought that was good enough. Oh well, I'll try, like RC said, to try to change the parameters that make it accept or not accept power.
Mikey-
I really believe that hey are on the same phase. It's a breaker that's the same size as the other ones, with 2 real small (1/2 size) breakers in it. The way my panel is designed, I don't think that that breaker could get power from both phases, physically. I'll look at it again (AFTER I get off my computer) ;-).
If so, I'm assuming that one of the loads just need to be put on the other phase, right?
Thanks,
Chris
No you're right, if it's the single size breaker (one position on the panel) but effectively split into two mini breakers each with a trip arm then it is on the same phase. Two get both phases you need a breaker that spans 2 breaker positions. Each single breaker position is on the opposite phase as it's neighbors and the one across from it. This is the way Square D panels work which is what I use in the house/garage.
RC
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I took a couple of samples from the Purifier into a Lab in Spokane yesterday.
They called me today, and I figure you guys'd get a kick out of this.
I took two samples, one of unfiltered oil, for a baseline, and another that went through the Purifier one time.
The lab tech tells me that I must have labelled them incorrectly, as the one that was marked "unfiltered" was cleaner than the one marked "one pass". I KNEW I didn't mark them wrong.
So, I started asking questions.....found out that a lot of the contaminants in the oil looked like "varnishes". After we spoke for a while, we both came to the conclusion that what (probably) happened is that the inside of the system had a ton of unclean stuff, varnishes included.
So, I dirtied up my oil by running it through the Purifier.....
We both figured that what I should do is just run the machine through a few cycles & let the machine clean itself up.
A small note:
10,000 Parts Per Million water is the same as 1%. (I know the math dictates this but I still thought it was interesting.)
Chris (still workin' on it).
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Chris:
1. their induction motors draw a butt load of power to start up, usually 3 to 5 times their rated running current, and
i would imagine their is also a power factor shift taking place that adds even more problems to startup.
bob g
Depending onthe rotor design most induction motors will draw in this range on start up. You highest starting current single phase will be with a cheap split phase ( the kind of induction motor with no capacitors ) your best starting performance is still a repulsion start induction but these haven't been made for nearly over 40 years for ecconomic reasons ( not practical to build, too much copper and parts ). Cap start Cap run are the best choice comprimise between starting torque and running efficiency.
There are also several classes on rotor type normaly only seen in industrial poly phase. Type gices you the best efficiency and lowest slip but the highest draw on start. B type general purpose and most common. D and E ( high resistance rotor and double cage but I may have the letters mixed up ) are special high resistance desinged to give extra starting torque but at the price of low efficiency and poor load regulation. The I believe there is an F type used for fire pumps and its designed to grind its guts to death draw low current on a start up and not stop turning untill the building burns down around it ( not a good choice for the off grid home ).
Power factor is also an Issue. ST heads with harmonic exciters can't don't have any feed back system to increase the field current, so an Inductive load makes the voltage dip and the line current goes higher.
Doug
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UPDATE!!!!
Not that it's worth anything at all.....(Depression sets in....)
I finally got back to messing around with the oil purifier & found that here was a bad breaker in the (simplistic) controls. So, I bypassed it, and voila! It runs for as long as I want to now. The real problem came from the idea that the Chinese folks use 220V, so instead of changing out things like lights on the controls to 120VAC, they installed a transformer...you can figure out the rest.
So, I ran oils through the machine, and took samples at 3x, 5x, 8x & 10x. Took them into the lab, and they came back with results that were let's just say....bad.
They said that the machine wasn't removing anything at all. It's really hard for me to believe that, being that the filters ARE in there & I know the oil is going through them.
The lab tech that I spoke to told me that in a lot of instances the filtration systems like this need to run for a minimum of 14-24 hours before they begin to filter correctly. I don't begin to understand this, but I will certainly attempt to make it reality. I sent emails to China, & got back a response that was far less than adequate.
So, the war goes on. I believe that the machine can actually clean up the oils, to what extent I don't know. But I'm not giving up until I make it work, one way or another.
Chris
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That must have realy been disapointing....
Don't give up and keep us posted.
Doug
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Thanks Doug, I really appreciate that.
I just believe that the filters in this thing are well large enough to be able to really filter well, but it is AWFULLY disaoppointing to talk to a lab & hear that news.
Like I said, I won't quit till it works- and right.
Chris
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We spent years trying different ways to draw the tars and crud out of cracked fuel.
Just wish I had of taken some interest in the process rather than just bitch about the havock and harm to my electrical bits. We probably had answeres of value but theplant is gone and so are the guys who knew...
Doug
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Did finally get some kind of answer from across the pond- they want to know what the water content is. I told them I have no odea, becuase I know that it varies like hell, some waste oils have a lot some have a little. I told them, in the end, probably less than 3% overall, but they advertise that the machine should remove waters/particulates to 100PPM for water and down to 2-5 microns for particles. It's like I said earlier, no where near that right now.
We'll see what they come up with, but I do wonder if it's true that I need to excercise the hell out of the filters in order to get them to start working right. Hell, I don't know.
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In winter our feed stock could be as high as 10 % water if we were proccessing mostly automotive oils.
Combined with unburned fuels this created a snotty yellow condensate that scared the crap out of me because of its flamibility....
Oil can hold a suprising amount of water and mystery fluids in suspension ( like unburned gasoline ).
Ask your Chinese friends if this would throw your gizmo out of whack.
Next consideration might be looking for a floculant that will draw all the impurities together so they can be more easily spun out.
All out of ideas now....
Doug
Doug
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.....Next consideration might be looking for a floculant that will draw all the impurities together so they can be more easily spun out.
All out of ideas now....
Doug
Doug
Or perhaps a flatulent that would simply outgass them?
Doug, you get the award today for a new word i never heard before. ` Floculant`.
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Tell me more about "floccoluants". How do you use them, what do they do, are they expensive, where do you get them.....I'll try most anyhting if it'll work. Maybe mixing these things with the oil THEN running it through the machine...?
BTW, I got another message from the manufacturer- "Run it through more cycles". So, it's running throug a 55 gallon drum right now, for ten hours.
Thanks folks,
Chris
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I just went back through the lab results on the "filtered" oil, and it shows that I have pretty consistently 3.18% water. I don't think that's too bad, as (used) oils go, but the machine isn't removing any of it.
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Thank you kindly, Jens. I'll be looking into this shortly.
Chris
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was intersted in the floccoluants////I will admit that i do not know anything about filtering wmo and wvo//but being from the south I know fried chicken.. well how does that fit in the discussion///fried chicken and sweet tea are a southen staple/// I was at the local fried chicken place when I noticed that they had added a power to the cooking oil// could not tell what is was but it said on the box that it extended the cooking life of the oil///I was wondering what it was and would it have any effect on a lister or would it filter out or clog the filters//it must be used to clean the cooking oil so it does not have to be replaced as ofter...Big ED always changes his cooking oil every january//I hope he does not go to a 2 year change with the powder//sid
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Here's a question for anybody who wants a go at it.....
In the literature on this machine, it states that the machine should clean 600 Litres per hour. But, the machine isn't doing that. It's "filtering" on one pass a minimum of 300 GALLONS per hour. So, it's either passing a lot more than they think it will, or they plan on passing twice to get the results.
I guess my wondering is-
Do any of you guys think this thing might be actually running too fast to filter adequately? Is this possible?
All answers I thank you in advance-
Chris
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Tell me more about "floccoluants". How do you use them, what do they do, are they expensive, where do you get them.....I'll try most anyhting if it'll work. Maybe mixing these things with the oil THEN running it through the machine...?
BTW, I got another message from the manufacturer- "Run it through more cycles". So, it's running throug a 55 gallon drum right now, for ten hours.
Thanks folks,
Chris
A flocculant is a product that is used for clarifying a liquid. You mix it with the liquid that needs clarifying, the impurities attach themselves to the flocculant and are the settled out or filtered. Each application has their own material for flocculant. I believe bentonite is used in a lot of applications but without further research I don't know any more than what I have mentioned so far.
Jens
Not sure what to use....
I know there are polymer Floc used in wate treatment, we used some in conjunction with bugs to treat water so we could discharge it...
Bentonite is a clay, also calle fullers earth I believe.
And I can't spell, never could lol
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if the flow is higher than expected and the filtration is lower than expected, I would diagnose as either-
Missing filter(s)
Ruptured filter medium, possibly due to higher than expected pressure, high viscosity (cold oil) or shipping vibration or shock.
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Doug ;
I'm not sure if wastewater/water polymer flocculants would work in oils since they're designed to be soluble in water not oils. However they are other types that could be soluble in oil.
One way to think of these is:
A wastewater polymer flocculant is like a long spring, the contaminant particles get part of themselves wedged in the coils and after enough get snagged the particle will settle out. Bentonite is a clay, like a chunk of of a porous rock. Things tend to stick to it and then settle out. This is why clays (and activated carbon) are really good at pulling out the stuff that makes you sick to your stomach, it pulls the junk(bacteria/poison) out of your stomach contents, isolates it, and prevents it from affecting you. There are other flocculants like Iron Chloride; this one reacts with the contaminate to add an iron atom to the material which then is heavy enough to settle out.
The powder the guy was adding could be something that would attach to the water molecules in the hot oil and cause it to seperate out. Calcium Oxide (burnt lime) will do this by chemically reacting with the water and then settling out (pulling particulates with it).
Three types of processes were used by us:
1) Physical trapping (polymer, bentonite).
2) Chemically trapping (hydrated lime). Used in water plants.
3) Chemically reacting (burnt lime, Iron Chloride).
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I know the bentonite will strip the dye form coloured diesel.....
So will bread believe it or not.
This area is well beyond me.
Doug
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Guys,
I am in the process of making an experimental filter to run my WTF and WMO through so I can use uit as diesel fuel. I started this project months ago and it got neglected when other things came along. I am getting back to it now. My VW diesel genset engine cokes the injectors badly in short order when using WTF that has been sitting for years to drop the water and other suspeded bits and then pulled at point of need through a 10 and then 2 micron filte from the topof the tank. The fine abrasive dust from bands and clutches I figure is the culprit. My new DIY processing filter is basically an 8 foot long path of 6 inch PVC pipe that will be filled with kitty litter or bentonite or a mix of both followed by a spin-on hydraulic filter. I plan to force the dirty oil through this filter arranged vertically against gravity with a small gear pump. I will report on my progress. The system is engineered so that the first two feet of filter material can be replaced easily without disturbing the rest. I thought this might get me more life from my filter media. The big pipe is pivoted in the center on a angle iron frame. Tilting to facilitate dumping and refilling the filter media. It resembles a backyard telescope.
I arrived at this concept after much thought and study which could have led to making a centrifuge or even a vacuum distiller. My experimentation with gravity feed through a 5 gallon pail of kitty litter with the bottom replaced by a screen yielded promising results, just not enough filtration, but it was clear that it was pulling the fine crap out of the oil.
EDIT fix typo.
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I arrived at this concept after much thought and study which could have led to making a centrifuge or even a vacuum distiller. My experimentation with gravity feed through a 5 gallon pail of kitty litter with the bottom replaced by a screen yielded promising results, just not enough filtration, but it was clear that it was pulling the fine crap out of the oil.
You've been peeking in my mid somehow. Stop that (or at least report your test results as I have not done the bentonite filtering bit yet) :)
BTW, I assume you know that most kitty litter is in fact bentonite or moisture absorbing pellets (the name of the stuff currently eludes me but it's also used in compressed air water driers). I would think that bentonite will be cheaper as it packed in larger bags without the fancy printing :)
The real question - there are two kinds of bentonite (Sodium and calcium also called I think southern and western but it's been a long time) - which one are you planning to use ?
Just yesterday I was trying to figure out the average particle size of bentonite to make sure the filter at the end would capture absolutely everything. I didn't find the info though :(
Jens
I got a 50 lb. bag of real bentonite from a drill rig service dealer. I dunno if it is sodium or calcium. Not interested in putting any in my mouth to try to find out. It is small grains much like regular unscented clay kitty litter. I haven`t tried the bentonite yet. The kitty litter has other stuff in it besides bentonite which may even include powdered vermiculite. I really don`t know, but the wholesale price of the bentonite is about the same price as retail for kitty litter per pound. I note the clumping kitty litter is more aggressive in soaking up moisture but is much more expensive. Also the oil doesn`t drop through it easily as it does regular kitty litter.
I should add that there was a fine powdered bentonite available which I did not see but I gather it looks like dry powdered portland cement. I guess if you added that and mixed well with the clay kitty litter you would have a very good filtering medium.
I am going to try straight common unscented clauy kitty litter first off since it is easy to obtain. Bentonite seems pretty expensive to me and not easy to get.
As far as putting this stuff in your mouth I have a joke. `That`s NOT a Granola bar, it`s kitty litter!` ;D
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What you want is fullers earth (30/60 lvm)
You will find it AF White in Brantford Ontario Canada
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Listerengines,
Thanx for the tip!
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What about diatomaceous earth, used as swimming pool filter media ?
( some types carry crystalline silica risks )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth#Filtration
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Updates?
Chris
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Updates?
Chris
Nothing yet from my lab. I have been too busy building the prototype of my ULTOR-1000 Freedom Home Power ProcessorTM . I guess I`ll have to get to my fuel oil fliter system next. I`m gonna need fuel.