Lister Engine Forum

Slow Speed Diesel Engines => Other Slow Speed Diesels => Topic started by: luismc on March 22, 2007, 12:38:06 PM

Title: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: luismc on March 22, 2007, 12:38:06 PM
My  changfa style engine have 1000 hours on wvo and I want to pull the head and decarbon  .I need the torque for the head bolts.Can anybody help. thanks


   luismc
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: europachris on March 22, 2007, 01:04:42 PM
Did you get a manual with the engine that covers the torques?  I have a small manual with my Powersolutions Changfa 185, but I don't recall if there is any torque information supplied in there.

What size are the head bolts on your engine?

Chris
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: rcavictim on March 22, 2007, 02:25:24 PM
What size engine is it?  165. 175, 185, 195.....?
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: luismc on March 22, 2007, 09:36:07 PM
The engine is a ZS 1115 made by CHANGZHOU MACHINERY & EQUIPMENT IMP. & EXP. CO

       luismc

Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: TerryM on March 23, 2007, 03:18:30 AM
The manual for my 1115 doesn't address the head bolt torque, but it does have a value of 274.4 - 313.6 NM for the "Tightening torque of cylinder cover nut".  One newton-meter is about 0.75 ft-lbs, so the torque in US units would be approximately 206 - 235 ft-lbs.  That's excessive for the little m10 hex nut on the valve cover, so I think that it actually is intended to apply to the head bolts - little details like which fastener was being spec'ed seem to have gotten lost in the translation.

What kind of loads and RPM has your engine been used for/at?

Terry
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: rcavictim on March 23, 2007, 04:29:29 AM
The manual for my 1115 doesn't address the head bolt torque, but it does have a value of 274.4 - 313.6 NM for the "Tightening torque of cylinder cover nut".  One newton-meter is about 0.75 ft-lbs, so the torque in US units would be approximately 206 - 235 ft-lbs.  That's excessive for the little m10 hex nut on the valve cover, so I think that it actually is intended to apply to the head bolts - little details like which fastener was being spec'ed seem to have gotten lost in the translation.

What kind of loads and RPM has your engine been used for/at?

Terry

Terry,

I fear something is greatly in error with 206-235 ft-lbs for head bolts.  I would not feel comfortable  exceeding 100 ft- lbs without further consultation/research.  If the head bolts are really large diameter and there are only four then perhaps this large number is correct. As a clue might I suggest that  the breaking torque required to loosen them ought not be far off the proper tightening torque.

You are correct that you multiply newton meters by 0.737 to get ft-llbs.  The head bolts on my JD-175 call for 98.1 to 147.2 N/M which multiplied by 0.737 gives 72.3 to 108.5 ft-lbs. torque.  This seems reasonable to me for the bolt sizes in the 175 engine..
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: TerryM on March 23, 2007, 12:06:11 PM
Neither the manual that came with my engine nor a Changfa ZS-1115 manual I found on line spec the diameter of the four studs that secure the head.  There isn't any thread showing on my engine's studs which complicates a direct measurement, but as nearly as I can determine they are 0.75" in diameter.

As a point of reference, a old style Chevy big-block V8 (348, 409) uses eighteen 7/16-14 head bolts that are torqued to 65 ft-lbs. Based on that, 200+ ft-lbs does indeed sound like overkill.  On the other hand, the 1115 has fewer than 1/4 the fasteners and twice the compression ratio of the Cheby.

Does anyone have torque specs and stud sizes for a Lister 6-1 to serve as another data point?

Terry
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: rjcroc on March 23, 2007, 03:18:41 PM

Perhaps this will help

http://www.zerofast.com/torque.htm

Rick
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: mobile_bob on March 23, 2007, 07:50:18 PM
detroit 71 series were 180-190 for the head bolts, and they were 5/8" grade 8 bolts
so if you have 3/4" then 220 ft/lbs would seem to be reasonable, the detroit were also 4 bolt pattern as well

cumming 855 head bolts are if i recall 11/16 and torqued to 320ft/lbs

seems like the 210-220 ft/lb might be reasonable

bob g
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: mjn on March 24, 2007, 01:55:25 AM
The manual for my Changfa 195 states "25kgf  m" for the head bolts.

Accorcing to http://www.calculator.org/property.aspx?name=torque That works out to be 180 foot pounds. 

Be sure to take some pictures when you get the head off.  I'd like to see what a thousand hours on WVO looks like.
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: luismc on March 26, 2007, 10:35:49 PM
Thanks everyone I am up an running again.Now I need a source for a head gasket for the next 1000 hours.

  luismc
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: rcavictim on March 27, 2007, 12:12:28 AM
Thanks everyone I am up an running again.Now I need a source for a head gasket for the next 1000 hours.

  luismc

Try pat(at) altopro (dot) ca    He stocks parts and is a member here.  He can probably have one in the mail to you tomorrow from Quebec.
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: rcavictim on March 27, 2007, 12:15:41 AM
luismc,

Can you share details with us of how much carbon and crustiness you found in your engine and whether you also pulled the piston, cleaned ring gaps, etc?  What have you been using primarily as fuel during the 1000 hour burn?  Was it usually well loaded up or no?
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: TerryM on March 27, 2007, 02:27:46 AM
You might also try Carrol Stream Motors - you can find their contact info at:  http://www.carrollstream.net/

Terry
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: luismc on March 27, 2007, 10:19:15 PM
Sorry if I am short on explaining but it is very hard to communicate in English . I put some photoes here http://listerengine.com/coppermine/index.php?cat=10114.I found about 3/64 inch of carbon under the first compression ring.The cylinder sleeve was very clean without any visible wear.The bearings also had very little wear on them.
  One side note it started  first try but the thermostats say in the close position a tap on the housing made it open up an it say open all day I will replace it tomorrow.

   Luismc
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: hotater on March 28, 2007, 03:32:29 AM
Luismc--

Are you sure those arent metric hours??   ;D

That looks great !!

I know it's hard work, but your English is very good.
Title: Re: 1000 hours on a changfa style engine
Post by: luismc on March 28, 2007, 11:19:00 PM

This is a hard working machine it is not one of those girly machine I have seen pictures


http://listerengine.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=607&fullsize=1

  Luismc