Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: RMPS on November 11, 2006, 04:41:12 AM
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(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/India-Tobacco-Shop.jpg)
India Tobacco Shop
It was a morning ritual to stop at this tobacco shop. Their tobacco is completely different than what we see here in the U.S. I can't remember seeing one person smoking over there... it's more like chewing tobacco. They have all sorts of seeds and plant products of sort, they roll the leaves into a triangle shape, to which they put in their mouth and take in the flavor, not smoke.
(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/India-Preassembly-Painting.jpg)
India Pre Assembly Painting
Here is one of the assembly line workers painting some of the parts for the engines. Look closely @ the paint can, the paint is built up. The paint is almost an inch thick on that can.
(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/India-Lister-Assembly-Line.jpg)
India Lister Assembly
Here are almost completed 10/1 Listers. Next step these engines will go to the dyno room.
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Nice photos Eric. That guy on the right looks like he dipped into the "special" stuff.
Thanks, Geno
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Ferry nice photos send as more :D
anybody wondering about the painting conditions the hands are black from the oil/grease and he is holding and painting the steel.
nice dust free clean room for painting :o
And this nice assembly line in the dirt plus the oil leaks on the steel.
yes this is a part of QC in india.
Greetings from Greece
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Those are obviously not pictures of a Honda assembly line but in general the conditions shown here are not as bad as they could be. Remember how much we pay for these things.
Thanks, Geno
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I'd really, really like to see the dyno room. Nice shots RMPS
Bill
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I'd love to see how they pick up those 10-1's to move them to the dyno room.
Ray
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I'd really, really like to see the dyno room. Nice shots RMPS
Bill
Here is a photo of the Dyno Room.
(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/Dyno-Room-Running-10-Single.jpg)
I didn't get many pictures of the Dyno Room, because of the noise factor. You get 10 of these engines running with NO exhaust, it's gets pretty dam loud.
They run them for 3 hours on the dyno. The rope is coated with grease and they have a weight stack at the bottom and a scale at the top. They measure the difference between the weight at the bottom and what's reading at the scale. This gives them their torque reading. The drum has water running through it, to keep it cool. Just like something you'd see in this country about 75 years ago.
Eric
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I'd love to see how they pick up those 10-1's to move them to the dyno room.
Ray
Two to three people move these with a special dolly ~ No fork lifts here - all manual labor.
I don't think I have any photos of the dolly.
Eric
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Ferry nice photos send as more :D
anybody wondering about the painting conditions the hands are black from the oil/grease and he is holding and painting the steel.
nice dust free clean room for painting :o
And this nice assembly line in the dirt plus the oil leaks on the steel.
yes this is a part of QC in india.
Greetings from Greece
Here a couple more pics for ya.
(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/India-Fast-Food.jpg)
Indian Fast Food
Uses a kerosene fired cooker, that operates similar to a Coleman lantern
(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/India-Tea-Shop-Flies-In-Da-Bucket.jpg)
Indian Tea Shop
See the bucket... mmmmmmmm yummy. Uses a coal fired cooker, to heat their tea.
Eric
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Wow this is nice. :o
The airfilter is also a very nice setup ???
so i see the first startup is using old motor oil, cooling water and and all dirt suspended in this and temp to low, missing air filter, missing exhaust demping. oke that is a nice way to see if a engine has a problem or will it have after this test. ;D
Can anybody tel me how this setup is started using this type of brake. that must be ferry heavy to start.
i start liking this photo serie.
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Wow this is nice. :o
The airfilter is also a very nice setup ???
so i see the first startup is using old motor oil, cooling water and and all dirt suspended in this and temp to low, missing air filter, missing exhaust demping. oke that is a nice way to see if a engine has a problem or will it have after this test. ;D
Can anybody tel me how this setup is started using this type of brake. that must be ferry heavy to start.
i start liking this photo serie.
??? CLEAN motor IS used on 1st start up on the NEW engines for the U.S. market. However, as it's been told most all other countries get the used oil... reason: because the U.S. pays the higher price for the better quality.
They start the engine without the rope around the pulley and install the rope after the engine is running.
Here is a photo of a 15 year old 6/1 Lister ran WITHOUT an air filter. :o Almost every engine I seen over there had NO air filter.
Notice the rag holding the fuel linkage together? Safe... ? This particular engine is out in the open, exposed to all the elements - amazing.
(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/Lister-6-1-NO-Air-Filter-15-Yr-Old.jpg)
Eric
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Thanks for these nice photos.
And yes that is a solution first to start and then to but the rope around the shaft. Maybe you also found same fingers laying around there or workers missing a hand. :o
After the first start from my 6/1, i dint want to think to get between these nice moving parts.
But oke manpower is cheap there and safety is clear worse than there qc.
Greetings from Greece
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Loved the dyno room, thanks. Now that I know how, I can make my own :D Bill
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Thanks so much for all the photos Eric, very interesting and informative - both about the factory and dailiy living. Hard for those of us living in western economies to appreciate how everyday life is in India. Thanks again.
Ray
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Thanks for posting those!
I'd love to see photos of an Indian foundry. Guys in sandals pouring molten iron :o
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Tom Robbins once wrote: " As optimistic as a new-born fly in a Mexican resturant." He obviously never saw an Indian tea shop!
I have a Prakash oil sample if anyone would like to send it off to see if it was 'new' oil or not. ;D
Great pictures...it's a lot like meeting new in-laws for the first time....and finding they live in a cave with oil drum funiture.
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the idea of no mufflers is so they never hear them knocking
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We have our ways of cutting fractions of a penny from the cost of a unit (chiefly through use of more cheap energy), and they have theirs (apparently through use of more cheap labor).
The dyno is a brake horesepower unit. Just homemade with what they had. Do the calculations and you can get the same numbers.
To some extent I can see the situation there with the fast food shop and tea shop. How clean and well maintained do you think McDonalds would be if they could only charge 26cents for a whopper, but, it was the only way to stay alive.
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You have obviously never paid much attention to what it looks like back there where they cook the hamburgers at McDonalds :D
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Granted about the McDonalds. But I have eaten at a few one man greasy spoons where you can get a $10.00 meal for $4.50 as long as you willing to accept that the little crevices haven't been scrubbed clean in 20-30 years. The work surfaces are very clean, however, "High Class" diners at a fancy restaurant would tend to run away from the place rapidly as being eicky! You know the ones that sue you because they spilled hot coffee on themselves.
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Here is a little tour of the Dursley Lister works in the 1930's. The first few picts of the factory are very reminiscent of the India Picts from Eric. Give them some time & they'll get it together.
http://www.dursleyglos.plus.com/dursleyglos/html/dursley/industry/listers/works_tour/works_tour.htm
binnie
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That was really neat Binnie. I wonder how many miles of overhead belts they had? Bill
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The first few pictures of the Dursley works was the foundry, not the assembly room!
The Dursley works shows a clean, organized and well thought out manufacturing facility using space, light and energy to best advantage.
It looks like some of the Indian works haven't made it to 1930 levels yet, but I agree with Binnie. They WILL catch up.
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Thanks Eric for those pictures! Those are great. And thanks to binnie too for that link.
I worry that by the time that india catches up to the rest of the world in terms of manufacturing, they will catch up in the products they make too, ie changfa-type high-speed engines. That will be sad.
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Thanks for posting those!
I'd love to see photos of an Indian foundry. Guys in sandals pouring molten iron :o
Here are a few...
(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/India-2006/India-Foundry-I.jpg)
FOUNDRY POURING MOLTON METAL
Here they are pouring the Petter Type cylinders.
(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/India-2006/India-Foundry-II.jpg)
FRESHLY POURED
Freshly poured Petter cylinder - this thing was still smoking.
(http://www.rockymountainpowersource.com/Photos/India-2006/India-Foundry-III.jpg)
FOUNDRY METAL CRUSHER PLANT
This is where they break the scrap iron down to small enough pieces to fit in the copula furnace.
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Wow, I guess with labor like this there's no way the US is ever going to get any decent manufacturing jobs back.
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And we think we have sand problems !!!
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I see I'm not the only one who likes to wear sandals while working.
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I think it would be fun to print up a big bunch of those pictures with the caption
LET'S KEEP PERSPECTIVE" and put them on every windshield in the OSHA parking lot.
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boy now we know why there are voids in some of the castings
actually under the conditions that they work under it is amazing that the quality is
as good as it is.
thanks for the pics
bob g
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I was just thinking the same thing.
It's one thing to make crappy product when you have good tools.
It's another to make crappy product when you're limited by your tools.
It's still another to make something that is actually useful when you're working under primitive conditions.
Quinn
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Atul said something intersting in an email to me....
Graphite used to cover casting flaws....
On the one hand its nice to know the foundery has some to adjust the carbon content provided of course they are actualy reading the content an doing soem testing before the pour.
These guys don't look loke they are doing any of that.
I am some where torn between depressed by the fact this is how so many parts are made and scared.
This kind of work criples and kills, and this kind of product has the same potential.
Doug
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many years ago, i picked up a us news and world report
it was when the russians were doing battle in afganistan
the article was about the problems they had on the ground, and the resourcefulnes of the afgan people
on one page it had a picture of an afgan blacksmith who having been given a russian rifle
had built every piece of the gun, (actually many pieces to make many rifles) all over a small pit on the ground
and with a hand vise and files. the story went that his pieces would fit any of the original guns and could be assembled into working weapons
it was quite an achievement.
would i fire one? probably if i was faced with trying to defend myself, and was faced with either throwing a rock or use the replica weapon.
it still seams a bit amazing to me, that given the circumstances, conditions, pay rate etc, that the indians build an engine that not only runs
but seems to work adequately for many people.
bob g
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I'm sure its true because I saw a story like that on the news too. They even showed them case hardening parts in clay pot.
Would I fire a gun like that?
I own a SKS, I probably have....
Doug
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The Kyber Pass gunmakers are quite the bunch. I've seen a filmed 'tour' of four centers of trade in that area and have owned four "Kyber copies". It's amazing work powered by nothing but muscle power and done under the most primitive of conditions.
It's interesting to note that the Kyber guns are *copies* of existing models. Even the screw holes for attachments never adopted in the original guns are present in the copies.
Gunmaker riddle--- You know why Kyber guns never have aluminum parts?
The kid pedaling the lathe can't go fast enough to machine it!
All the machinery I saw in the film was powered by one or more younsters on stationary bikes. I'm sure by now there're engines and slack belt drives, at the least.
Stone age, Bronze age, Iron age, to Industrial revolution. They're making progress. As with progress before them, it's the switching from human and animal power to fossil fuels that allow it to happen.
If we didn't burn oil, what WOULD we do with it??
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I know it's them trying to sell their wares and all, but if you go view the slidewhows over @ the Field Marshall website, their factory appears to be just a wee bit more 20th century than the one shown in the beginning of this thread. :P
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yes but if you look critically at their pictures you will see that they are carefully staged
for instance a guy using a depth guage that clearly has no clue how to use it.
they will put on their best face as anyone would for a commercial, but the real work is done in the dirt.
about 25 years ago, i went into a IH truck dealer in kansas, front end show room, parts dept very typical and what you would expect
for a modern shop
go back to the shop and i found it to be a cave , dimmly lit, looked like it had been on fire several times, and the back half of the shop was
a "DIRT" floor,, and yes they were doing inframe overhauls back there...
you can be sure that if a commercial was made, you would never see the shop and the dirt floor.
bob g