Author Topic: Tesla  (Read 470 times)

glort

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2019, 01:42:15 AM »
Quote
I have always been intrigued by pancake generators and axial flux generators. I don't have the ability to build one into the flywheel of my Lister like this fellow did.

There was a stage there when a lot of people seemed to be building Axial Flux alternators... Including me. Most were doing them for wind turbines.
Some were scratch Built and quite powerful being for up to 10 KW I have seen on the net.
 I built a 7 phase type out of an old washing machine motor. Mate who worked at an aircraft factory designed some blades for it out of carbon fibre and cooked them up as a test for a new material they were working with.  Things cost thousands but they had to do something to do the test so an air foil  shape was was a good Idea to the bosses.
They had a computer he was going to use to make the blades " perfect" but that was being used for some time ( Only 1?)  so he "freehanded " them on a cad program and hoped for the best.  After they were done he ran his design through the computer and it came out with just over 1% efficiency error which my mate was stoked about.

Even with these near perfect blades the thing wasn't much of a success where he was as the site we put it up was bad for wind for a start and far too low anyway.  We did put the alternator on a small engine for a while to play with and it certainly made power OK but being on grid was nothing more than a toy.
We said at the time it would be good for an off grid engine ( I set it up for 28V from memory, was a long time back now!) or if one had a good Hydro setup which we both would have loved to have a property to play with that.

There are certain washing machine Motors, Fisher & Paykel and I believe another brand in the states that uses their same Permanent magnet Motors.
You can just re configure the coils for different outputs and voltages etc.  Depending on the series of motor one uses ( the windings are different wire gauges)  You can get around 2K out of one of these motors.  Wouldn't be hard to put a couple of Motors on the one shaft and drive them with a Lister or any other engine and they make good power at low revs.

The Neighbour gave me what I think is the now popular 60 Series motor last summer.  Love these things. You can hold the 3 phase wires, give the thing a spin and feel like your arm is going to get blown off.  Re configuring the phases lets you bring the voltage down to something useable for battery Charging although I spose you could probably use them as is with a GTI and a rectifier for back feeding.

Wind has seen a significant reduction in interest with the availability of far cheaper solar so turbines and axial Flux generators have fallen from favour but are still a good tech for engine coupling.
Given how hard Gen heads are to come by here, maybe Bob and I ought to look at them more closely and see if they might suit our particular proclivities.
Might take quite a setup to pull 10KW+ out of them as I would like to get. 

Given the size of Lister Flywheels, I have always wondered about bonding a flywheel with opposing magnets and just using say 3 Coils around the perimeter as a generator. As long as the magnets were north/ south and the number and spacing was correct, I don't see why such a setup couldn't deliver whatever power the engine was capeable of.  Would be a high frequency from the output but when rectified for battery charging that wouldn't matter at all. Would only require the winding of 3 coils and the wire gauge could be sized for higher amps to take advantage of the high number of magnet passes.  Alternately, more coils could be used with fewer magnets. Pick the cost and output profile one wanted and go from there.

BruceM

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2019, 02:57:12 AM »
I'd forgotten about the pancake type motor as a popular wind turbine due to lack of cogging.  Not much power to be had at low winds where cogging is a concern but at least something.


glort

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2019, 09:08:56 AM »

You can grind the edges of the stators to a round bevelled shape Bruce.
The extra gap allows the magnets in the rotor to transition more smoothly and reduces the Cogging effect some of the alternators of this type do have.

I hate wind, I truly despise it. 
The last few days have been blowing a gale here almost non stop. I expected it this time of year and thought I was prepared for it but there is nothing you can do to combat it.
It infuriates me when I screw/ bolt something down to allow for wind and it tears the fastener head through the metal or breaks it. I have lost plants I nursed all through winter and were starting to come on with spring just weeks away . I literally pumped $$ worth of power into them ( more more correctly heated the ground they were in) and staked them up only to have the plant be snapped in the middle though the force of the wind on it's leaves.

I said to the Mrs this morning when I was picking up some panels I had tied down and snapped the rope I secured them to the shed with, that the next place we go to I'll research to have the least wind possible.
She found a bucket round the front this afternoon. It had been on the back verandah yesterday where I filled it full for watering the plants.  How the FK does a full bucket of water blow over? I screwed the cats feed tray to 2  20x20 CM great chunks of wood as I was getting tired of searching for that every morning and evening to feed them. Wondering if I should have just screwed it direct to the outdoor table?

Surprisingly, all my ground mount solar arrays have withstood the onslaught bar one panel that has slipped down due again to the tek screws I fastened it with to the support beam  I screwed it to ripping through the frame. the force that would take is just ridiculous.  Surprised the whole things haven't moved but clearly boring those 2" steel post holes  a meter into the ground and the 3x4" cross beam was not a waste of time. Don't know what else I can do to stop the things tearing away other than spot weld the things.

I'd make a VAWT using panels for sails if I wasn't so sure the whole dam thing would be blown away even if I did fasten it to a cubic meter of concrete with 6x 25 MM bolts or break the hus assembly from a car i'd use as a bearing!

I stood in the back yard yesterday and could see the furthermost trees I can see blowing clearly in 3 different directions at the same time.
How the heck does that work?? I'm also about half way down the hill on 2 slopes which I curse when there is heavy rain and we get all the water running through but looking at those trees yesterday, I think it does afford us some shelter and reduces the wind strength those not  to too far away get hit with.

A wind turbine here wouldn't last one good blow and the rest of the time it would do absolutely nothing.
I'll stick with my solar panels direct on my roof with no railing for the wind to get under and tear the damn things off.


veggie

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2019, 03:53:12 PM »
"I stood in the back yard yesterday and could see the furthermost trees I can see blowing clearly in 3 different directions at the same time.
How the heck does that work??"


I'm guessing you were at the boundary of two large wind fronts each in a different direction (also the cause of tornado rotation), or you were in a large downdraft area where cool air is rapidly displacing warmer ground air. In any case, it sounds like it was very windy  ;D
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 03:55:17 PM by veggie »
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BruceM

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2019, 03:56:36 PM »
Your winds sound like ours.  We have what are called dust devils here in the warmer months;  tiny thermally driven tornadoes that can start suddenly, move erratically, throw stuff in all directions, then disappear. One time at my last home one picked up an upside down canoe nestled against the lee of the  house, spun it around and stuffed one end through the steel siding into my portland cement plaster on steel lathe wall.   Our spring winds are ferocious. My last home was on a ridge, with great views and gusts to 100mph each spring.  My current home is in a hollow, with hills on three sides, facing rock formations on the north.  I still have a D-ring in the concrete patio on the south, with wrought iron table and chairs tied down, though they are nestled between hill and house south wall.  Winds are 10-15 mph less in the hollow, which helps greatly.


mike90045

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2019, 04:37:53 PM »
you take your axial flux gen head and wrap it around the flywheels:
http://www.windsine.org/2017/02/07/listeroid-backup-generator/

build links are at archive.org

LowGear

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2019, 07:50:34 PM »
Dear Group,

I often remind my brothers and sisters:
     Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.Nov 15, 2017
Psychological Projection: Dealing With Undesirable Emotions
https://www.everydayhealth.com/.../psychological-projection-dealing-with-undesirable-e...  (Links don't C&P well)

The conservative mind and the need to villainize the messenger.  It's fun to witness and sends up the flag of caution.  I also like the ratio of ill thoughts to the threat of the message.
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LowGear

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2019, 08:23:03 PM »
Aloha BruceM,

Thank you for the kind words.  I'm far less concerned about being disrespected than snorting diesel smoke while caught in traffic.  While my Fiat almost stops while stopped the busses do not.

I don't have a proper answer to the wants of children.  I don't know why so many cars focus on useless acceleration.  I bought my Bosch powered Fiat because it seemed rational.  Even it jumps out from under me.  Oh, Tesla has re-specked the new roadster to 2.1 seconds to about 60 MPH.  Far more sane huh?

The video games only work when the Teslas is motionless.  The games do not use the accelerator pedal.  Do you have a car that has a radio?  Maps?

Regardless if we're frying eggs or accelerating full throttle in a Tesla roadster the grid needs cleaning.  This is not a reflection of the electric car but rather on the grid.  Please, let's not assume fossil fuel production is without sin.  It's a nasty dirty business with many victims.  And like other sellers of addictive substances they will suppress the truth via lies, conspiracy and denial.  My understanding is that there is 4 KW in every gallon of gasoline.

Another thesis is that large scale energy programs can be more friendly than small ones.  Now who does that serve?

Wouldn't it be neat if we lived in a world where everything is true and good.  If you find that world please email me.  The point you're missing with EVs is that they are created by homo sapiens.  And you know about the infestation they are bringing to the planet.  I think the planet just might be fighting back. 
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mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2019, 10:00:16 PM »
Dear Group,

I often remind my brothers and sisters:
     Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.Nov 15, 2017
Psychological Projection: Dealing With Undesirable Emotions
https://www.everydayhealth.com/.../psychological-projection-dealing-with-undesirable-e...  (Links don't C&P well)

The conservative mind and the need to villainize the messenger.  It's fun to witness and sends up the flag of caution.  I also like the ratio of ill thoughts to the threat of the message.

A sometimes amusing, often tiresome, always over-the-top display of the combination of deep insecurity with narcissism - that's what we're watching

I was gonna say "you could write a book"  but all you'd really have to do is cut-and-paste lol

veggie

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2019, 10:57:04 PM »

Lowgear,

I get what you are saying. I'm not sure if there is any solution at this point.
And certainly no points that we need to argue. Just not important enough. Opinions are just that. And an open mind is necessary.
The elephant in the room is "overpopulation" and "human nature".
Everything stems from there.
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LowGear

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2019, 06:52:24 PM »
Hey Veggie,

I absolutely agree.

and

Sometimes I use the words of others to lend credence and not to spin my wheels writing what has been better written.  I'd suggest my lazy boy links at the least caught some attention. 

Quote
A sometimes amusing, often tiresome, always over-the-top display of the combination of deep insecurity with narcissism - that's what we're watching
And yet the messenger lives.

Before it gets stupidly personal I invite you to look upon the changing world with curiosity and awe.  It's probably going to happen.  No matter what.  Anyway.

Cheers,

Casey
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mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2019, 07:10:50 PM »
Adult thought all around, Veggie and Casey, yes

LowGear

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2019, 07:05:07 PM »
Here's another interesting YouTube article.  Okay, this father and son team are way prejudice says the Elon Fanboy but Jack Richard is an accomplished gear head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfILTM_xcOE

Maybe some hyperbola thrown in for good measure.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 08:52:42 AM by LowGear »
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mikenash

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2019, 09:45:23 PM »
Fascinating. "Follow the money", as they say . . .

BruceM

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Re: Tesla
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2019, 11:59:47 PM »
The EV Werks guy is an interesting character, and is no slouch on EV tech and cars, having been at it for ages in his own business.