Author Topic: The GM90 Listeroid Variant  (Read 434 times)

veggie

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The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« on: July 31, 2019, 12:59:21 AM »
For those who have heard of the GM90 Listeroid but don't know what it is, here is some information.
It's basically a smaller version of the CS Lister.
It puts out the same HP but at higher speeds which are achieved by using an aluminum piston and direct injection.
Many of the GM90's came with the spoke-less "stover" type flywheels which were very well balanced for higher speeds.
They develop their advertised HP at 900 rpm.
Here is one running at that speed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbpiYeCJbNs

I run my own GM90 at much lower speeds (like 550).  ;)

Sensitive Ind. (Satyajeet) GM90 page:
Here you can read the specifications and sizes available.
This site is obsolete but it does show the original advert.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080610093029/http://www.satyajeet.com/de2.htm

Topland Engines GM90 (Or "little giant") page:
Also known as the Mini Lister.
http://www.topland-india.com/products/engine/htm/engine_3.htm

Pictures: (Click on the picture to enlarge)
A cutaway of the GM90 engine.
A size comparison between a full sized Lister and the smaller GM90. (30% smaller)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 01:25:38 AM by veggie »
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

Desiel

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2019, 11:44:01 AM »
Interesting, the cutaway shows a fully counter weighted  crankshaft.

veggie

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2019, 02:10:48 PM »

Yes, the crank has counterweights, and the flywheels do not have any offset weighting.
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

Tanman

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2019, 02:40:58 PM »
What are the biggest pros and cons of a CS vs a GM90?
Yanmar L100-5KW set
Chinese 1115-8KW stamford
96 Suburban 6.5 turbo

Desiel

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2019, 04:00:51 PM »
Pros........ smaller footprint, lighter weight,  probably well balanced and solid stover flywheels, internal oil pump supplying oil.
Cons......... 900 RPM, direct injection does not like alternate fuels, harder to get parts because of the poor interchangeability with standard sized CS's.

veggie

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2019, 05:01:00 PM »
The GM90 uses an injector pump and injector almost identical to the larger CS model. (May be the same)
It seems to handle alternate fuels like Veg Oil very well.
I have seen several installations where WVO was used as a fuel.
Like this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvIv-6vky4Y
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

glort

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2019, 01:26:23 AM »

If it's a plunger type pump similar or the same as what a CS and most other stationary engines have, I'd take Direct over IDI any day.
I think the Changfa/ China Horozontal Cylinder  engines are direct and they are perfectly happy wv/mo.
Don't see 900 Rpm being a disadvantage either. More to engine longevity than just speed. In performance engine circles, it's always lower RPM that stresses components more than higher speed.  Pretty much the same with Industrial power transmission. You can drive a much bigger load at higher rpm with a similar size belt than you can at lower RPM.

The non weighted flywheels would be a winner for me. Something you can easily balance to perfection if it did need it.

Parts -may- be an issue but I would suggest a smart operator would source them before they were required. Not than much you need to fully rebuild any of these engines so it would hardly be a stretch to keep a stock  or multiple of everything that could be possibly needed.  Give oneself time to source and procure the parts before they were needed rather than wait and have the engine out of action if they did take time to get hold of.

BruceM

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2019, 03:35:29 AM »
Are all the parts and assembly done in Rajkot, or are the GM90's made elsewhere in India?

Tanman

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2019, 02:32:50 PM »
What would be the main parts you would stock? I would assume bearings, piston rings, a second fuel pump. What would be your recommendations?
Yanmar L100-5KW set
Chinese 1115-8KW stamford
96 Suburban 6.5 turbo

glort

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2019, 06:03:48 PM »
What would be the main parts you would stock? I would assume bearings, piston rings, a second fuel pump. What would be your recommendations?

Everything you would need for a complete rebuild if you were relying on the thing.
Add Gaskets, injector(s), over size piston, seals, hard line, valves.... etc.
Bout the only things you wouldn't want are the block, barrel, head ( maybe) crank and Flywheels.  Again, would depend on your reliance and backups.

veggie

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2019, 08:06:53 PM »
Are all the parts and assembly done in Rajkot, or are the GM90's made elsewhere in India?

I think they all come form Rajkot. The home of precision high performance engines.
- 6/1 GM90 Listeroid - Delco 33si Alternator
- Changfa R175 - Lease/Neville Alternator
- Kubota Z482 - 4kw
- JiangDong R165 Air cooled - 2 kw

38ac

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2019, 10:10:13 PM »


I think they all come form Rajkot. The home of precision high performance engines.

 8) 8)  8)
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

glort

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2019, 12:28:40 AM »

I think they all come form Rajkot. The home of precision high performance engines.

We scoff at the punjabs and really don't appreciate the commitment to engineering that is deep seated in their culture.
I mean, where else are you ever going to see a guy standing on the assembly bench in an engine manufacturing plant swinging a full size sledge hammer with all their might to bring those finely machined parts together?

You just don't get those sort of close fit tolerances anywhere else in the manufacturing world!   ::)

mikenash

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2019, 07:44:24 AM »
Bear with me a moment while I collect my thoughts . . . .

Now, I'm not someone who owns cars (sedans).  I'm someone who owns station wagons because of how I live

And because I have specific requirements of my wagons (work hard; don't use too much gas; serve reliably . . . )  I buy Toyotas - Camrys mostly.  Corollas if buying for other folks

But if I was going to buy a sedan, I'd buy the top-of-the-line Camry, the Lexus ES300.  They're made in Japan, and they were built when Toyota's Kaizen philosophy was still the beating heart and soul of their manufacturing guiding principles

Think of it like this:  If someone in the USA buys, say, a 2007 ES300 which is made in Japan - that buyer has a better-than-even chance that his Lexus will last for 350,000 miles.  There are thousands with over 400,000 miles "on the clock", and many with over 500,000 miles on the original engines and transmissions.

(Check out this one with 1,000,000 kilometres - 600,000 miles - under its belt) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75YcIEyWmco

But if the same American-based buyer purchases a Kentucky-built Toyota/Lexus; while his car is still twice the machine a new Buick, Dodge or Chrysler will ever be - it's more likely to be a 250-300,000 mile proposition

Equally, of the many 300,000+ kilometre Camrys I have had, the Japanese-built ones (Gracias) hit 300,000 Ks with the interiors in excellent shape - apart from the damage done by owners' children and pets - while the Australian-built machines - which share the same body parts & drivetrain, but which have been assembled in Australia with Australian trim - have collapsed door-cards covers and fallen-down hood linings.  Not just some of them.  ALL of them

Now, the American blue-collar assembly worker is just like the Japanese white-overall assembly worker or the grey-overall Aussie assembly worker:  He goes to work, he eats his lunch, he performs to the standard set by his superiors and he builds cars with the components he is given.  It's just that the component quality control and the worker-training and quality control in the old Kaizen factories were head and shoulders above almost anything else in the world.  That's why a 20-year old Toyota is probably still ticking along just nicely, thank you, while a 6-year old Chrysler or BMW is making horrible noises whenever its transmission shifts and it's poor owner (soon to be poorer) is wondering how to pay for a $4500 transmission rebuild . . .

Thus it is in Rajkot, too.  Those blokes go to work, they assemble engines as instructed by their bosses, they eat their lunch & they go home

If their boss gives them a sledge-hammer to fit Gib keys, or teaches them to just paint over casting sand residue . . .

I'm just saying - in my long-winded way - that it isn't the worker who is at fault; and I, personally, tend not to laugh unkindly at him . . .

glort

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Re: The GM90 Listeroid Variant
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2019, 02:24:29 PM »
I'm just saying - in my long-winded way - that it isn't the worker who is at fault; and I, personally, tend not to laugh unkindly at him . . .

Like I said, it's the deep seated culture.
I get what you are saying and fully agree, it's one of my many adages, it comes from the top down.  I think it is irrelevant who is " at fault", the product is what it is and the indian culture is cheap and penny pinching just like most asian Cultures.

The difference I have found is Chinese machinery is of a very good standard these days. Myself, my family and my friends have a boatload of Chinese power equipment. We all flog it and we all marvel at how it stands up to it.... Like your Toyota's.  All of us used to be Honda fans for their reliability and endurance. Now none of us can justify the 3-4X greater cost when the cheap chinese stuff seems to stand up every bit as well. Once we thought If you have to buy 3 to get the lige of one honda and they are 1/4 the price you got a deal but now no one expects them to fail any quicker because they have proven so reliable. And if you want spares, Cheap as Chips... and they make them at a fraction of the OEM price for Honda as well.

Chinese small electricals tend to be utter crap in my experience but with the literally 50+ small engines I, father and friends own, I'm yet to hear of one failing yet.... Except with Friend whom seems to have this aversion to checking oil levels, but not the fault of the equipment. Even then, Threw a new rod piston and rings in, hit them with a quick hone of the bore and the things are still going well.

I don't know what the Petter and other type engines are like from India but lets face it, their roids are terrible and show a lack of pride, self respect and contempt for the customer.  As I said, engineering is a big thing in Indian culture so they well know the crap they are producing. 
Wether or not the workers are following orders or not, one would be far better off having the Chinese producing the engines if one were wanting a quality product.

With the Chinese they will build you world class precision if thats the goal. Most times it's cheapest price but what I have heard from a couple of people I know who go to china regularly and get stuff made, it's like a dollar to get it made and  10 Cents more to get a really well made product that they will point out and design out any inherent flaws.
I would be confident one could get a Roid that was built properly, like their other small engines such as the Changfa type  for the same or precious little more than the Indians do them.

If you could get a decent Roid they could copy from  or the drawings, they would make them for you no trouble to whatever quality standard you wanted.
From what I have repeatedly read, you can't get quality out of the Indians for love nor money.

What I would really love to see would be a 5-15 Hp Vertical shaft Diesel for mowers and the like. I'm amazed they don't produce them. I did see a 12 Hp once but that's the only vertical in that range.

I reckon if you did a replacement diesel mower engine you'd sell millions of the things the world over. If someone were smart and did an injector for veg oil, Might be able to get round a lot of restrictions with the renewable fuel angle as well.  :laugh: