Author Topic: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.  (Read 568 times)

BruceM

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2019, 01:16:34 AM »
It's unlikely to be the injection pump if it runs fine once started.

Things that affect diesel starting are compression, injection timing, spray pattern, valve timing ...also for an engine that runs well once started, air getting into the injection pump/fuel line is a common problem.   The latter possibility becomes more likely if it is easy to start if run recently...as it would take some time for the air to slowly get into the line. Slow weeps of diesel fuel in lines, filter or at IP are also an indicator of air being your culpret.

The spray pattern should be checked as it's easy.  Pull the injector, loosen the high pressure line and swing it away from the cylinder, reinstall injector.  Being careful to avoid injecting fuel into your skin, use a coffee can or similar and watch the pattern while cranking. It should be a pulse of fine fog-like particles.  A big of crud on the tip of the injector can foul things up, and yes, you could have a problem with a 2 mos old injector nozzle.

For valve and IP timing, you should check the manual.  It's possible that having it off a bit will still allow it to run OK, but be hard to start.  While your injector is out and connected, you can slowly crank and see where it's firing relative to TDC on the flywheel, assuming it's marked.  Retarded injection timing will normally cause a loss of power and sluggishness to respond to throttle. Advanced injection timing will cause more diesel knock.

I don't have an ST-1 so these are only generalities, but I've seen them all on my other diesel engines.

The exhaust valve is now suspect since your failure was started by the decompressor getting out of adjustment.  I'd sure listen to that carefully while it was pulled through compression, even going as far as pulling the exhaust pipe or manifold to hear better.


glort

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2019, 12:51:42 PM »

If the engine was in fact hard to turn over as alluded to a couple of times but thin on Details,  I would suspect some mechanical issue rather than fuelling or or compression. Anything that makes the engine hard to rotate is not going to be good and running it in that condition without finding out why was always going to lead to bigger problems and the ultimate failure seen now.

I'd be wanting to find out why the engine wasn't turning properly long before worrying about what might have in fact worked out as a self protection in being hard to start.  Lot of details missing here but maybe it was a lubrication problem or a failing component causing the thing to be hard to turn over.

Dark smoke is unusual. I would think that would be indicative of a rich fuelling condition. I have personally worked on a few Diesels which were in fact flooded as much as I have read that can't happen.  I Pulled out the GP's blew the cylinders out on the starter, put the GP's back in the the things came back to life straight away on every occasion.

Still a bit hard to figure out what is going on with the replies the OP has given.

cobbadog

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2019, 07:04:56 AM »
Sounds right too but what is "GP's" never heard of this abbreviation.
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glort

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2019, 08:47:25 AM »

Glow Plugs.
Was car engines.I'm pretty sure one of them, an om 616 Merc was caused by a battery that was down a cell. It turned the thing over OK but not fast enough. The owner cranked and cranked the thing and I believe got too much fuel in the cylinders. I put my car battery in it and the thing almost ran but not quite. Once I blew the thing out and put the plugs back it, started first hit although woth a Mighty cloud of white smoke which was probably fuel in the exhaust.

 Haven't come across it with stationary engines but apart from the latest Kubota addition, I haven't had a stationary engine that was hard to start.
Kubota isn't actually hard to start, goes first kick with a bit of something down the inlet.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2019, 12:29:39 PM »
Hi Wess123, sorry to read that you are still having problems. I have a copy of the original service/maintenance manual. Sadly I cant post it to the forum because it is too large a file, send me a PM and I will try to email it to you.

Bob

cobbadog

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2019, 07:32:29 AM »
Cheers Glort, now I know what gp is.

Try to avoid feeding either down the throat of any engine on a regular basis. It will shorten what life it has left and is an indication it is low on compression or needs a major service on the injectors and pump.
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glort

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2019, 01:58:02 PM »

Thank god you didn't tell me that engines get addicted to ether! How many times have I read that rubbish?

How any person can believe that an inanimate object somehow gets an " addiction" to anything does my head in. good job some of us know better than to parrot that rubbish.

In the case of my kubota, I'm quite sure it's the injector. The compression is simply insane.  I can't hand crank it through one compression stroke and trying to turn it through a compression stroke slowly letting the air bleed past the rings is almost impossible and a very slow task.

Spose the pump could be a bit tired too. I can't get it to blow much black smoke which makes me believe its a fuelling issue. Runs perfect with a bit of WD/ petrol/ metho or methanol down the intake. Cracks into life first stroke.

wess123

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2019, 08:10:04 PM »
Hello guys
i checked all the syspect components but the fuel pump and nothing seems out of the ordinary, can anyone tell me how to check and/or how to adjust the fuel pump?
thanks in advance

scott p

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2019, 07:33:38 PM »
Here are some lousy, barely  readable but still better than nothing picture I took with my ancient cell. Hope you have some way to zoom them.

scott p

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2019, 07:51:38 PM »
I see the resolution is over the top but let me know if you need this information but can't work with it. I can tone down the resolution  and try again. Two more attachments.

glort

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2019, 02:44:14 AM »
The resoloution is 640 x 480. It's anything BUT over the top.

They would be a lot more readable and useful if you could double or triple the Res.
Your efforts are commendable and none the less Im sure are greatly appreciated, just trying to clear up any misunderstandings of which way you need to go if you want to make the images more useful and easy for people to read.   ;)

It also helps when doing anything of this type to put the documents in the brightest even shade light you can find.  Many people try and photograph things in relative dark especially with phones but if you take them outside on a bright day and in even shade, they will come out as good as they are going to.

dieselspanner

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2019, 07:46:57 AM »
Pull the injector out and reconnect it so you can see the spray pattern when you crank the engine.

If the pattern is good then it's likely both pump and injector are good.

If it's not then it could be either, take the injector to the local shop and get it tested, if the injector is good, repeat the test and probably the pump, or it's pluming,is at fault.

Just 'cos the injector is fairly new doesn't mean it's not playing up.

Might help!

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

scott p

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2019, 08:21:56 AM »
You put me on the defensive glort .
         This is how it works for me. I use windows XP. I put my pointer on the images here in this forum  and right click. I then select save image as and pick a place to put it in my computer.  All I have to do then is point and click on the saved image and windows picture and fax loads it automatically. I can then zoom it in and am able to read what I posted. A couple of those pictures are high def and don't need zooming but they were taken on a much better camera.
     I see where I have redundancy and didn't  send one of the pictures so here is that one. All of this may be academic anyway as wess123 may already have this stuff.

Johndoh

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Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2019, 02:36:51 PM »
Just curious, when was the engine last decoked?
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