Author Topic: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?  (Read 230 times)

mikenash

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CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« on: June 15, 2019, 03:53:05 AM »
Waddya reckon guys?

Is there anything special about the "old" "original" pump and injector?

Or is it smart just to buy a new pump, a new line, a new injector and get on with it

This engine started life as a 3/1 and at some point had a 4&1/2" barrel and piston fitted, then later a + 40 thou barrel and alloy piston fitted.  Maybe the heads are the same (3/1 and 5/1)? I don't know?  But maybe it still has the pump/injector from the 3/1 days which may, effectively, be not worth having

Those new "Genuine Bosch Mico" injectors and pumps are only about $150 each and whenever I have fitted one in the past all my uncertainties about "have I heard a decent CRINK or a half-hearted CRINK?" have just disappeared

I'd appreciate any thoughts

Thanks, Mike

dieselspanner

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2019, 08:56:07 AM »
For what it's worth I'd spend an hour or two tinkering with the old one, if it looks half decent give it a go maybe on your good engine, nothing to loose but an evening with some diesel under the fingernails....

Then if it works sort out the injector the same way and you know you what you have when you rebuild the$100 baby!

You may not get full power but you'll prove the system

Complicated, they ain't!

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

saba

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2019, 11:13:16 AM »
New tip for injector and new barrel for pump and it's new again.

greetings bernhard

BruceM

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2019, 05:29:44 PM »
If it was running the 8/1 piston, the pump and injector have already been sorted, and you might as well see what you've got.  I do agree with your thinking...the Bosch-Mico pumps and injectors have a great reputation...worth having them on on hand as a spare given your fleet of CS engines.

BruceM

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2019, 05:36:28 PM »
Pop pressure isn't critical on these engines, so I'd skip that just use the engine mounted IP and injector outboard of the engine to check spray pattern. If you're getting a nice pulse of foggy mist in the coffee can, hurrah. Squirters or post pulse droolers need to be dealt with, starting with a nozzle cleaning or replacement.

You can make a dandy pop tester via a grease gun and grease flex hose, some fittings and gauge.  I did and it's totally worthwhile to pop pressure match a set of injectors with new nozzles on a multi cylinder engine. My MB 300D never ran smoother.


mikenash

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2019, 03:37:20 AM »
Good thoughts all around, guys

If I get some workshop time at work - perhaps when the boss is off site - I might have a wee tinker

Might pop them both back in a bucket of diesel in the interim

Thanks to all for the thoughts and advice

Cheers

ajaffa1

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2019, 12:32:58 PM »
Hi Mike the injector pump is a very simple device and very robustly built, provided the rack moves freely it can be rebuilt and reused. The originals have the advantage of having a hole drilled at both ends of the rack, this is to accommodate the starting pawl which sets  the fuel delivery to maximum for cold starting. The Mico/Bosch replacements do not have this. Replacement elements are available for these pumps.

The original fuel injector is also very robust and can be rebuilt, provided it has not rusted solid. New injector nozzles are available but I would recommend giving the old one a very good clean and lapping the seal with a little Brasso metal polish and seeing how it goes. One thing to be aware of is that there is a 5 micron fuel filter built into the fuel inlet pipe, hidden in the 2 inch long threaded pipe connected to the injector. The inside of that pipe is ground to a very fine tolerance and has a fluted insert in it that is also very finely ground. If these are rusted then no fuel will pass and it will never start. It is OK to knock out the internal fluted insert and chuck it in the bin if it is damaged, I don`t recommend it but provided you are fastidious about keeping your fuel filters clean, it wont cause a problem.

BruceM is absolutely right about the pop pressure not being critical, somewhere I have the original instructions on how to field set that pressure in an emergency. I would recommend you rebuild the injector and then take it to you local diesel engineer to have the pressure set, should be a five minute job and cost very little. Failing that please send it to me and I will set it and send it back to you free of charge.

Bob

mikenash

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2019, 07:59:08 PM »
Hey Bob

Thanks very much for the advice & the offer of help.  Much appreciated - we'll see how much of a mess I can achieve on the bench myself first lol

I had the injector on another machine apart several times but never managed a good, even spray - that was the point at which I just bought a new one and, voila!, problem solved

When I have the opportunity, I'll take this one apart again

For the moment it and the pump can have some soak-in-diesel therapy for a week or two  :)

Cheers

BruceM

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2019, 09:50:35 PM »
I suggest that vegetable oil is a far more productive soak...it softens the hard stuff nicely, which is why biodiesel is so problematic when thrown in the tank of an old diesel vehicle.

I used vege oil for injector cleaning and for testing on my pop tester.  Much more pleasant to have your hands and nose full of.


38ac

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2019, 10:29:15 PM »
What we do in the shop is rebuild the pumps if feasible. That is determaned by the amount of rust and wear in the rack,
both the gears and the hole in the casting.  Nice features of the OEM pumps is the timing window and line which makes timing a breeze and the bleeding screw.  We just replace the injectors as a rule.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

mikenash

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Re: CS pump & injector - worth bothering with?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2019, 09:43:23 AM »
Pop pressure isn't critical on these engines, so I'd skip that just use the engine mounted IP and injector outboard of the engine to check spray pattern. If you're getting a nice pulse of foggy mist in the coffee can, hurrah. Squirters or post pulse droolers need to be dealt with, starting with a nozzle cleaning or replacement.

You can make a dandy pop tester via a grease gun and grease flex hose, some fittings and gauge.  I did and it's totally worthwhile to pop pressure match a set of injectors with new nozzles on a multi cylinder engine. My MB 300D never ran smoother.

I wonder who has seen this . . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZA3vf-anzU

Crap hygiene etc - but a couple of interesting devices the chap has made for his pump/pop tester etc

Always something to learn . . .