Author Topic: Welding on clean DC  (Read 2474 times)

tiger

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2019, 02:37:25 AM »
Any one try one of these?
WWW.multiplaz.com
Metro 12/2 ST 10 KW

mike90045

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2019, 04:07:24 AM »
>  multiplaz.com

Looks like Browns Gas, all ready to go boom !

BruceM

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2019, 04:45:45 AM »
Just when you thought there hasn't been much new in welding...
A very interesting, self shielding torch.  It's is still an arc welder of sorts- they are carrying electric current to the grounded metal on the ionized gas.

Truly original.
 

mikenash

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2019, 07:17:03 AM »
Hey MikeN, Yes, I'm sure the modern welding machine will compensate for welding lead losses up to a point, to maintain the set amperage regardless of losses in fittings and cable.  I'm guessing that I should conserve voltage as well as I can within reason for <150 amp operation.  I'll try baking the 7018 rods and let you know how that works.

The batteries were not run down much at all from my practice welds, so I'm guessing the amperage must be fairly low.  I'll have to get some help to measure voltage and current.  No point in measuring now until I get the new cables and connectors. 

Can you show me a link for the type of ground clamp you like?


This is the one I like Bruce, as it's very positive

The little tit on the end will collapse over time, but you just screw it on down.  My current one i have had for five or so years.  FWIW the manufacturer rates them at "500 amps"

Cheers

mikenash

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2019, 07:23:05 AM »
Oh, sorry, Bruce.  I posted that before I read that you had bought one

Good luck with the project

glort

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2019, 08:42:10 AM »
Just when you thought there hasn't been much new in welding...
A very interesting, self shielding torch.  It's is still an arc welder of sorts- they are carrying electric current to the grounded metal on the ionized gas.

Truly original.

Are they cracking the water in the torch and lighting off the Oxyhydrogen mix?
I have seen other machines that do that as alternative to gas axes. They all seem to be no name Chinese. haven't seen any by mainstream brands.

The ability to cut ceramic Tile is Impressive. I thought I was doing well being able to cut Timber and plastic with my plasma.
Never tried tile but I can't see it happening.

BruceM

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2019, 05:18:46 PM »
I could not find a "how it works" diagram- dynamically producing enough hydrogen/oxygen gas from the water-alcohol is quite a trick, likewise the high voltage ion stream for welding. I don't care for voodoo products where the operation isn't clearly show including patent numbers, if any.

Of course, I'm one of those guys who feel a product evaluation should include complete disassembly and reverse engineering.

Thanks, MikeNash.  The one I ordered is similar.

 I built the plow frame and couldn't wait. I welded it with jumper cables and 6013. Crude but I hope serviceable. Next is attaching the plow blade and raised blade "wings".  My biggest problem is that my old fashioned, non-electronic helmet filter is so dark I cannot see anything except the small spot of the arc; I often can't see enough of the work to know where that is.  Starting the arc utterly blind is also a problem.  The fancy electronic ones of course use an unshielded microprocessor so that's not something I can wear.  I ordered a crude filter where a tiny PV panel turns on the LCD type filter to try on Thursday...many complain that gives you arc flash blindness as it takes a bit to turn on but I'm going to try it.


glort

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2019, 02:52:17 AM »

I was looking at those electronic helmets yesterday. They now do them in glasses as well.
Not sure, who can be with Chinese stuff, but they seemed to be describing that you could turn the levels up or down.  To what extent of course would remain to be seen.

I was also wondering about getting flash with the things. Seems to me the light would hit them  to activate at the same time as your eyeballs.  Maybe they are rapid enough not to cause any harm but.... Maybe the solar activated helmets could benifit from an extra solar cell or 3 wired in parallel to make them more sensitive?

I have found welding outside in the sun if you can get the right angle is good for the darkness problem of a helmet. Can be bright enough so you can faintly see the work before you start the arc. There are also different grade lenses you can get. It would not be the darkness that mattered but rather the fact the lenses screened out all the UV.

I always wondered about using goggles for plasma cutting? I spose the safety zealots would always say you need them but I was wondering about fact not obsession.  I don't use them but as it is an arc I often wonder if I should but then I don't see anyone else using them for cutting with plasma.
How did you find welding with the DC setup Bruce?  Did the batteries hold up well for the job you had and were you satisfied with the weld Quality?

BruceM

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2019, 06:20:15 AM »
Full sun in Arizona in May, I can't see anything through the welding helmet filter.  Nothing. Most of the new helmets have a battery, so they can switch over so fast you won't see the flash.  The little PV panel senses light and charges the battery.  Brilliant, with adjustable delay for going clear, which seems to be the reason for the microcontroller.  I can always reverse engineer the things and design some analog electronics to replace it, but it's a lot of time and effort.

I'm not statisfied yet with the welds; too much included slag and irregular, start and stop beads.  I'd rate them barely serviceable. 






glort

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2019, 08:46:59 AM »

Have  you any ideas to improve  the welds Bruce?
Would paralleling in an extra pair of batteries help  or going up to 36v?

mikenash

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2019, 08:49:28 AM »
FWIW if you can find a way to make Low Hydrogen rods work for you - you may have difficulty with the rods; but you will have NO slag inclusions I would say.  Cheers

BruceM

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2019, 04:21:53 PM »
This afternoon I should get the new 12 foot #2 awg cables and connectors.  I'll use some old 1/0 cable for the interconnects at the battery and choke. I'll re-evaluate the 24V setup after I get that all hooked up and get some current and voltage measurements.  The new PV direct powered helmet filter comes on Friday. 

36V operation has been well documented by others.  It's too much power by most accounts.








« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 04:47:55 PM by BruceM »

BruceM

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2019, 08:04:40 PM »
I got the PV powered welding filter insert early.  It works, just annoying when it flashes dark and light with my sputtering arc.  The ones with a battery and microcontroller have adjustable darkness, sensitivity and delay.  Dialed in, they must be sweet.  Could have been done in analog easily, doggone it.

At least I can see what I'm doing now until the flashing gets to me, but it still feels like not enough power on 24V. Sure with I could find a 6V marine battery for cheap.




cobbadog

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2019, 06:46:33 AM »
A mate of mine who welds for a living uses a big magnet for his earth lead.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

mikenash

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Re: Welding on clean DC
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2019, 10:19:47 AM »
I got the PV powered welding filter insert early.  It works, just annoying when it flashes dark and light with my sputtering arc.  The ones with a battery and microcontroller have adjustable darkness, sensitivity and delay.  Dialed in, they must be sweet.  Could have been done in analog easily, doggone it.

At least I can see what I'm doing now until the flashing gets to me, but it still feels like not enough power on 24V. Sure with I could find a 6V marine battery for cheap.

Bruce, one thing you can do - if the situation allows - is leave a slightly larger gap than you might normally do when preparing welds. 

If you think of, say, butt-welding a pair of 8mm plates.  Perhaps you would normally leave, say, a 2mm gap so that the weld can penetrate nicely.  And experience tells you that if you leave, say, a 3mm gap, then your weld may tend to burn through.  But if you imagine that you need for some reason to make that weld at 80 amps rather than the 110 amps you might normally use - then a 3mm gap (instead of a 2mm one) might just be what you need to artificially improve the "penetration".  Not ideal, but do-able

The use of the 8mm plate is just an example, of course.  But the principle may be transferrable to a range of situations

Also, of course, if you use 2.5mm rods where you would normally use 3.2mm ones (accepting that you may have to make two or three passes) then that may allow you to work "hotter" with a lower current

Good luck