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Author Topic: New Listeroids for sale  (Read 600 times)

BruceM

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2019, 11:48:04 PM »
If you think Rajkot can put consistently ready to run engines in a crate for you with typical China tractor quality...you are heading for a rude lesson.

Rajkot has not been in the same ballpark as China in consistency; we all wish you'd find someone in China to build Lister CS clones.  Rajkot is even infamous within India, as we learned here from a native many years ago. 

Sample pieces for evaluation will always be the finest they can manage...but not much like the following containers.  Competent and technically skilled people I respect have spent a great deal of time and money hoping to pull up Rajkot standards, and largely failed in getting those new stardards consistently.  Things like cam lobe placement, cam straightness, tappet alignment/binding, casting quality and material, weight of con rod and piston , flywheel key location and mass of counterbalance, finish of machined parts, valve placement/spacing in the head/rocker arm placement, voids in the head casting, idler gear location/lash, finish of cast parts, and cylinder liner protrusion all vary WIDELY.  These are all things the skilled builders here have to check and fix, and I've missed some other common ones.

The CS is a great engine and I'm glad for my Rajkot kit of mostly usable parts with rework, machining and some replacement.  With a reputable dealer like Gary at DES, bad parts are not a risk.  I would have gladly paid more for a China quality product, but that doesn't exist.


 

dieselspanner

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2019, 10:30:52 AM »
Hi Graham.

Looks like you've done your homework. Maybe there will be a resurgence of interest in the CS, in the States, best of luck, keep posting!

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

Bolton Power Equipment

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2019, 02:26:03 PM »
BruceM,

       You are correct, Chinese tractors and Listeroids are apples and oranges, but I'm not trying to compare them 1 for 1. The goal is to import the product within an acceptable performance envelope. That requires some level of consistency. I'm not  trying to improve the over all quality because with hand built machines and no modern machining technology thats not an achievable "ask". The Chinese tractor is a much more complex machine than a CS so to broaden the envelope you must improve quality. Thats possible in China, I watched it happen over the 20 years I imported them. The approach with the CS was to over design the things, basically throwing material at it. My approach as I mentioned earlier in other posts is to ask the manufacturer to add manufacturing steps and features that will keep the product within an acceptable quality envelope. These things are so over designed it's ridiculous, a 10 Hp engine that weighs close to 1/2 a ton... I'm aware of the cherry picking that could have occurred if I'd told the vendor they were for evaluation so I didn't.  I told them it was a one time purchase for "the farm". I wanted off the shelf product. I'm well aware of others failing to "bring up Rajkot quality". I'm an engineer by training so I look at problems in the context of root causes and practical processes to resolve. I think others have failed looking at trying to change Indian process to meet their requirements. I prefer to adapt my requirements to meet Indian process. So I have and will continue to add features that they are capable of adding to their process to align with my requirements. I can't comment of the other manufacturing incongruities you mention because I haven't seen them. Another thing to note is that there are many manufacturers and the prices vary quite a bit. But as always you get what you pay for so I don't shop by price. The CS market in India has softened so the committed manufacturers in India are looking for new markets. They want to re-invigorate the US market so I believe they will try hard to cooperate, it's in their best interest. My approach will be to give them a path forward that they can navigate to grow the business. I can't promise that there will be no issues but I will stock parts and make good on any problem. I do however believe that my adaptive approach is a practical path forward considering the realities of Listeroid manufacturing in India.

Bolton Power Equipment

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Re: New Listeroids for sale
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2019, 02:30:52 PM »
Hi Graham.

Looks like you've done your homework. Maybe there will be a resurgence of interest in the CS, in the States, best of luck, keep posting!

Cheers
Stef

Hope so Stef, they are fantastic machines.