Author Topic: Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz  (Read 297 times)

Lister Rob

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« on: April 23, 2019, 01:55:14 PM »
 I have a 6-1 startomatic and live in Canada, the generator is producing 50 hertz but the appliances here are 60 hertzs, I pluged in my tv and smoked that and is not working any more. Is there anything I can do to change the output from 50 to 60 hertzs.  Thanks.

mike90045

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2019, 02:28:45 PM »
frequency is controlled by engine RPM or pulley size.    One has to change.   I don't know the RPM specs for start-o-matics, but it might be as simple as increasing RPM till you get 60 hz ( or the flywheel cracks )

If you can't increase RPM, you change the generator head pulley.

Last resort, you use it to run a battery charger and then use a inverter to get 60 hz

Johndoh

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2019, 02:37:45 PM »
Is it a modern tv? What voltage is it producing?
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BruceM

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2019, 03:59:40 PM »
Something is fishy-  a modern tv set would not mind 50hz at proper RMS voltage.  Most modern switching power supplies for electronics and appliances will be fine.  If some modern kit failed, your voltage is the more likely problem.

Motors will not mind 50 hz either, assuming voltage is right, they just run a bit slower and at lower power.

You may have to fiddle with the generator voltage regulation to get voltage right if you increase generator head speed to 1800 rpm.  Increasing engine RPM...not a great idea for the 6/1 with iron piston, but viable with a switch to the aluminum piston of the 8/1 and rebalancing the engine for it...some lbs of lead opposite counterweight.  Changing the pulley on the generator head is likely your best solution but may prove difficult, thus I mention the aluminum piston and rings which could be had from Gary at Diesel Electric Services.

I'm not convinced that you must have 60hz-  what do you expect to power with it?


Johndoh

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2019, 05:27:38 PM »
If its making 230/40 volts it could maybe fry an older 110volt TV. My tv seems to work at 200v and 240v and al voltages in between. I have a 230 volt supply
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Hugh Conway

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2019, 05:45:28 PM »
@ Lister Rob
My 6/1 Startomatic manual lists 2 different combinations for V and Hz.
One is 230V @ 50Hz. the other is 110V @ 60Hz.  I believe the 230V is not split phase as is used here in Canada.
If your set is producing straight 230V, then it would probably let the smoke out of most 110/120V rated appliances, regardless of Hz

There are different specifications for 110V 60Hz and 230V 50 Hz field coils and other voltage regulating parts, so a simple RPM increase might not do the trick either. I also have a 6/1 starto, rebuilt the engine, but have not tried to resurrect the  generating gear.  An Utterpower PMG is belted up and works fine, though the automatic starting is lost.
What's your location in Canada?
Cheers
Hugh
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Hugh Conway

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2019, 01:32:20 AM »
An addition to my previous post.........
In the Lister 6/1 SOM manual, generator pulleys have different part numbers for produciong 50Hz and 60Hz.
Also I note that the generator has two wire output. As far as I know (not very far) this would mean that the 230V output is not a split phase set-up as per North American 220V-240V systems. Looks like you cannot get 110V from each leg to combine into 220V. You just get a straight 220V 50Hz or 110V 60Hz depending on flywheel (determining gen head speed), voltage regulation and field coil options installed.
I know that are some on the forum who know quite a bit more than I do about workings of the SOM gear, I could easily be mistaken re output, though the part numbers are different for some 50Hz and 60Hz components.
cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

Lister Rob

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2019, 04:10:42 AM »
  thanks for the replys , seems like I may have to change the pulley on the gen set to increase the rpm and didn,t want to have it to high incase the engine throws a rod. All the regular lighting works fine but a bit dimmer  and if I use led lights they blink on and off. Motors seem to run a bit slower. I will have to do some more studying to try and find a fix. How much smaller of a wheel should I use on the gen set . I was thinking on cutting the wheel down on the laith. thanks so much.

dieselspanner

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2019, 09:45:11 AM »
Unless I'm mistaken you are looking for a 20% increase in speed, measure the circumference of the driven pulley, divide the result by 5 then multiply by 4, then divide that by 3.142 and that's the new circumference

I.E.   Circumference = 200mm * 5 = 40, x 4 = 160 * 3.142 = 51mm

Once you are in the ball park fiddle with the revs

Make sure that machining the driven pulley does not overly weaken it.

If I'm wrong with the maths, someone please feel free to correct me!

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

38ac

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2019, 12:11:00 PM »
In such cases a person does not need to bother with the conversion from diameter to circumference. Just change the diameter by the required percentage and the circumference comes out right ;)  50 Hz to 60hz is a 20% increase so the formula would be generator pulley diameter x .80.  Same answer , easier math ;D
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 12:18:16 PM by 38ac »
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glort

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2019, 01:25:30 PM »
I pluged in my tv and smoked that and is not working any more.

I can't see how on any relatively modern TV Frequency would do that.
Everything I look at these days is specced at 100 -250V and 50-60Hz.  All these things run off inbuilt power supply's that regulate and condition the crappiest of power inputs.

Before worrying about the frequency, I'd be putting a meter on the thing to check the voltage output.
That's far more likley the culprit than a Frequency Mis match.  Might be something in the gen head has let go and you are making 300 volts or worse.
Simple and easy check to make before changing the pulleys and still blowing the snot out of something.

BruceM

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 03:48:29 PM »
Lister Rob, You clearly have a voltage problem not related to 50Hz.  Incandescent light should not be dimmer at 50Hz if the voltage is correct. Start by checking the voltage.

dieselspanner

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2019, 09:52:51 PM »
Nice one Butch,

I'm pretty sure in the past, you've pointed out to me the value of keeping it simple. I worked it from first principles, I guess i shouldn't have stopped there.

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

Lister Rob

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2019, 09:56:34 PM »
 Looked at the pulley on the 6-1 startomatic generator and there is no metal to take down on the pulley  to make it smaller, to remove the pulley is there a set screw there somewhere or just pull it of and is the outside weight pulley separate from the inside belt pulley so I can match something smaller to get the rpms up on the generator.  the generator is putting out 70 volts and if you turn the engine up the generator is putting out 90 volts and the lights will brighten up. don,t like doing that as I am afraid something may let go in the engine when the engine is cold, there may be something else going on in the control box or generator, maybe someone may have an idea. thanks so much.

BruceM

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Re: stratomatic 6-1 power hertz
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2019, 10:20:35 PM »
Yep, the voltage regulation isn't working right.  Likely an old selenium diode or capacitor died. I'm a zero on the SOM generators but several here know them well.

You must have at least an optical tachometer, or a voltmeter with frequency measurement to make sure the frequency is right , as well as voltage, before plugging things in.  It's a 4 pole head so you're looking for 1500 rpm for the stock 50Hz.