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Author Topic: Lubricating oil?  (Read 616 times)

Jordan

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Lubricating oil?
« on: January 22, 2019, 08:36:28 PM »
I'm looking for oil recommendations for a CS1 6hp made in 1953.
I don't think it has a full flow filter?
So I guess a dispersant additive is not wanted, as it would not encourage debris to sink to the bottom of the sump.
I'm in Australia.

Thanks folks.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2019, 03:49:53 AM »
Hi Jordan, if it doesn`t have a filter, you are right in thinking you need to run a non detergent oil. Repco do a heritage 30 SAE oil, probably quite pricey and you may need to ask them to order it in for you: https://www.repco.com.au/en/brands/penrite-oil/penrite-heritage-ltm-sae-30-non-detergent-engine-oil-5ltr/p/A9439085

Bob

glort

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2019, 06:16:15 AM »

I have never run anything but multigrade engine oil in any of my engines and not had any trouble.
I understand the detergent/ non detergent relationship but if you keep your oil changes up and don't let the engine sludge, I have to wonder what could be so bad if it was kept in suspension anyway?

Lots of different engines I have pulled down there is plenty of crap in the sump if the ones that haven't been looked after so I wonder if the detergent makes that much difference in something like a Lister or if the action of the dipper stirring everything up in the real determining factor.

As always I maintain keeping the oil clean and regularly changed is more important than type, weight or brand of any modern oil used.


BruceM

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2019, 06:42:28 AM »
I run multi-viscosity, the cheapest "all fleet" I can find.  It makes winter cranking faster and easier on my air motor - rubber wheel starter.  I have no lower sump in my Listeroid, and did add a "sock in a box" gravity filter below my big door.
 




 

« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 06:57:15 AM by BruceM »

Jordan

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2019, 12:38:35 PM »
Thanks for the replies.

I'm under the impression that detergents are not the same as dispersants.
Detergents clean surfaces, dispersants are what keep particles in suspension.
It may be that detergents have some dispersant action? I don't know.

Sometimes it seems that multi-grade oils are assumed to be high detergent, but I don't see a direct connection.
It could be that a low- or non-detergent oil contains viscosity modifiers?

To try to answer the query about what's so bad about having particles in suspension -
When a full flow filter is fitted in line before reaching the bearing surfaces, the particles are removed from the system in time.
With no full flow filtering, the particles could theoretically give the oil some abrasive character.
Better to have them fall away to the bottom?


No doubt Lister engines can last a very long time with any oil.
But I wonder if they'd last a very, very long time with a particular oil.

glort

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2019, 02:37:26 PM »
No doubt Lister engines can last a very long time with any oil.
But I wonder if they'd last a very, very long time with a particular oil.

They lasted a very long time with oils of yesteryear that the enginners of the time could probably not even imagine of conceive.
particles and filters or not. I believe the oil of today no matter what it is would be looking after the engine so much better than ever though of, any particles in the bearings wold be of no consequence.

As long as the oil is changed regularly, exactly would could be in the oil? Micro metal particles?
From what I have read, anything under 7Um will do nothing 7=8 Um is the damaging size and anything above that generally won't fir in bearing clearances.

I think the ideal of anything falling to the bottom of a sump with a Dipper is a bit impractical.

Jordan

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2019, 10:08:00 PM »
Thanks Glort.
I'm sure you're right about old Listers being very forgiving of oil used.

Jordan

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2019, 10:54:49 AM »
I have been reading the Lister Instruction Book for diesel engines (103/666).
Should have done this sooner, as it has some information about oils with detergents, and multi-grade oils.
It says these can be used in some circumstances.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2019, 12:11:41 PM »
Jordan do you own a lawn mower? Not the expensive ride on types, just the average push mower most people use to cut their back yard. Non of these mower come with an oil filter and yet the manufacturers recommend the same SAE 30 detergent oil they recommend for their larger oil filtered engines. I suspect that lubrication oils are so advanced of where they were 50 years back that you probably don`t need to worry about it. Change it regularly and stick a permanent magnet on the back of the oil drain plug, you should be good for years to come.

Bob

dieselspanner

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2019, 03:35:10 PM »
+ 1 for the magnet in the sump.

If I can't get one to stick to the plug I leave it in the sump on rebuild, well, assuming it's a steel pan, a loose bit of neodymium that won't stick to an ally sump sculling around about the big ends ain't too clever!

There's one in the lower sump on my Mccormick tractor and the CS...

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

glort

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Re: Lubricating oil?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2019, 10:29:49 PM »

I have to admit, I have never seen great merit in sump magnets.

Most engines are mainly non Ferrous except for the bores. there is minimal material that comes from a bore before the engine is well worn and if one takes into account the amount of oil changes that would happen over the time  till the engine is worn out, the particles must be pretty low in concentration anyway.  They would also be in the low micron size range.

My wife and Daughters cars have factory magnetic sump plugs and I have yet to see anything more than the typical sludge and tiny carbon crap you'd see anywhere in an engine.  Granted, they do have oil filters but even so, the amount of magnetic material an engine could shed is limited and hard to actually define on these plugs. 

If you look at magnetic plugs in gearboxes and Diffs, there is a different story.  The trans in wife and daughters cars have the same filter as the engine but the plug catches a LOT more material.  There is also a magnetic plug in the transfer cases and that clearly is a useful application as well.
The amount of material the diff plugs catch makes you wonder why all diffs don't have magnetic plugs and more over, why they don't have a filter!

Nothing but steel in most Differentials.