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Author Topic: injector pump  (Read 238 times)

vegoil

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injector pump
« on: January 20, 2019, 05:16:48 PM »
I have been running my Lister CS 8/1 on cooking oil for about 850 hours without any problems until yesterday it stopped I striped it down to do a DE-coke when I went to start it today the injector pump rack was stiff. I mean that the Governor cant open and close the rack on its own. I think that was why it stopped but didn't see it at the time.

I have tried to get oil into the rack didn't help.

is this a easy fix? do I have to take the Pump apart?

Any ideas?

thanks in advance.

John
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 05:39:40 PM by vegoil »

mike90045

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2019, 05:31:14 PM »
Soak it in ATF.   open it up (but don't take it all apart.) and let it soak a day or 2, swish it around, work the ATF in as much as you can, as often.   I hope ATF will de-gunk WVO 

 Acetone will, but it's much nastier stuff, and I don't know if it would damage any soft parts inside, ATF should not

vegoil

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2019, 05:46:45 PM »
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/articles/Injection11.jpg

I have found this site

they dont apear to be any soft parts

I have IPA for cleaning parts will this be OK

John

dieselspanner

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2019, 08:26:40 PM »
Hi John,
I've used the same drawing for reference when stripping down the pump for my 6/1, It's a good start point. See this YouTube clip for the details of the 'jerk' type pump in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FgCi66BqUE

It's not a big thing to strip down, but make sure you get the rack in the correct position when you reassemble it. There may be a 'witness mark' on the rack as you look into the pump body from underneath, before you pull it all to bits see if you can relate the mark to the plungers position as you move it back and forwards, the first pump I stripped had one, and I only found it when I had all of the pieces in a shallow pan (Fray Bentos steak and kidney pie dishes are good!) of diesel.

If you have no mark, don't worry, study the video and in a couple of minuets you should be able to work it out.

When you refit the pump wind the adjusting bolt down to the bottom and gradually raise it until the timing is right, and rock the flywheel back and forth to make the pump 'spit'. Don't over do it or you'll crush the pump and bugger it.

There's loads of stuff on here, on the WOK, from 38ac - Butch - and I seem to remember something from Ed Dee using the inside tube from a ball point pen or something similar. Use the site search engine.

Clean the bits with injector cleaner and a soft cloth, don't use anything abrasive, don't scratch it with a screwdriver either!

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

ajaffa1

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2019, 09:33:46 PM »
Stef is absolutely right, these pumps are not that complicated and can easily be dismantled, cleaned and put back into service. When doing it cleanliness is everything, remember how small the holes in the fuel injector nozzle are, any dirt or fluff can cause problems, I like to bleed a half pint of fuel through them before connecting the injector. In the event that the element in the pump is damaged (any visible scoring or scratch marks on the pump plunger)replacements are readily available. The drawing attached should give you some idea of the internal workings although the marks tend to differ between pumps, take lots of photos as you go for reference during reassembly.

Bob

mike90045

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2019, 09:56:35 PM »
I have IPA for cleaning parts will this be OK 

I doubt it will be strong enough, even if you strip it down.  Try jiggling it for 2 days in ATF and see if that helps at all, otherwise try acetone for 2 days, and then strip it down to parts

vegoil

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2019, 10:28:02 PM »
thanks for the advice I have had the pump striped down (what a mess it was like old varnish and hard grease) Now its all back together and running like new.

thanks again until the next time!

Cheers

John

glort

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2019, 10:28:56 PM »
The cause f the sticking will not actually be the oil it will be air.  Veg polymerizes with exposure to air over time. Heat and moisture help the process along.  If the pump has been weeping a bit Like I have seen them do the cause of the sticking may be all on the outside.  if the engine has been left for a while it may have got into the voids where the fuel normally is but was filled with air.

It's easy to get rid of the poly with a small brush but depending how thick and tacky it is may take some work no matter what you soak it in. Tends to flake apart not magicaly dissolve.

I have found good old Diesel is a great solvent for Veg oil poly and you don't have to worry about it hurting anything. WD40 and pretty much anything will help, it's more a matter of re hydrating it as it were to soften the stuff and then remove it by mechanical means.  Boiling the parts in a pot of water will also help and is good at getting the stuff loose. 

If you are going to leave the engine between runs it is a good idea to give the system a flush with Diesel or Bio diesel. that said I have had engines sitting for years full of veg and they fire straight up but it depends on the pump and the oil.  If you have dried the oil before you use it that is a big help in preventing these problems. Also if the pump is better sealed that also tends to alleviate the problem.

The poly would be hard to get rid of but I think you'll need to work on softening and brushing it away rather than relying on it to dissolve. It's remarkably tough and persistent stuff.

Only good use I have found for it is a rust preventative.  You have to do it every 12 months if something is out in the sun as it will dry and flake but if it is more protected it lasts many years.  Friends have done box trailers etc and been very happy with the results.

ajaffa1

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2019, 11:14:49 PM »
Well done John, hope it gives you many years of service. The gunk inside may not be from the veggie oil, I have read stories of brand new Listeroid pumps being filled with sticky brown grease and requiring stripping before they would work.

Bob

dieselspanner

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2019, 11:53:19 AM »
I had one of those, Bob, both the injector and the pump were full of the best preservative known to man. Sadly it was almost insoluble in diesel!

Ask me how I know about stripping CS pumps and injectors..........

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

vegoil

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2019, 06:53:26 PM »
This Lister CS8/1 is a start O matic made in 1969 the pump may not have been striped down in its life. I am going to strip it down along with the de-coke service interval and have a look at it.

cheers

John

BruceM

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2019, 08:13:54 PM »
Having a spare Indian Mico/Bosch pump on hand might be a good idea if you plan long run hours.  The aren't expensive and by all accounts are reliably high quality.  Nice to have a spare to make IP tear downs a leisurely process. 

Water injection will save you a lot of decarbon hassle and keep your injector tips running better. Glort even sold me on it. I'm using a float valve regulated gravity fed system, sucked up into a small brass tube in the intake manifold.  Spiked with methanol for winter.

ajaffa1

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2019, 08:54:45 PM »
Hi John, as this is an original Dursley Lister it probably has a CAV injector pump, It has probably spent many years running on regular diesel, our old mate Glort will tell you about the hazards of swapping from diesel to veg oil.
The veg will dissolve all the old diesel deposits in the fuel tank, filter and fuel lines. He recommends thoroughly flushing everything before switching to veg. I suspect that the gunk you found is old diesel varnish, now that the veg oil has flushed everything and you have stripped the pump the problem should not recur.

Bob

mike90045

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2019, 11:52:46 PM »
....I suspect that the gunk you found is old diesel varnish, now that the veg oil has flushed everything and you have stripped the pump the problem should not recur. Bob 

unless there are more deposits that get past the filters

glort

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Re: injector pump
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2019, 11:38:20 AM »


As the deposits from the diesel is basically dissolved in the fuel, they will coat everything the fuel touches including the walls of the fuel line and the pump itself. This can be behind the filter as well as in front.

If the engine is decades old, the deposits can be far more than one would anticipate.