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Author Topic: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....  (Read 8664 times)

dax021

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2018, 04:53:06 AM »
My preference is performance cars.

You have mentioned this a couple of times. now. I'm getting the impression a Volt is not going to make you at all happy and perhaps what you are really looking for is someone to talk you out of buying one.

That's exactly what I was thinking.  Why not just buy that Ferrari, I will certainly support you.

mikenash

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2018, 06:36:28 AM »
Camry hybrid . . .

vdubnut62

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2018, 07:20:04 PM »
I am giving serious consideration to a Nissan Leaf, but I am NOT going to take the depreciation hit on a new one. They seem to lose value
at the rate of 15-16k the first year and less after that. Also it looks like Nissan is not standing behind the battery warranty very well, and the range drops off after a while, but still after all the cons, I think one would suit my daily commute very well.
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LowGear

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2018, 05:01:13 PM »
The Fiat 500E is a ugly duckling cute town car.  I know we were talking Volt but a year ago the used Fiats were down to $6K and now they're more like $8K.  Who else figured out they were more Bosch than Fiat.  To get into a fully charged car every morning is to many just a dream.  To ride in a car that is actually quiet is another dream.  To have a car that the interest on the loan is the most costly part of ownership is a dream. 

A turn around on going electric transportation would really be an interesting ride.  Face it.  China, the biggest player on the field is going electric.  While hydrogen energy storage has some very nice sides it's just, to quote Elon, "Stupid".  When we discover a cheap way to generate hydrogen then maybe.  Just maybe.

In just two years the EV world is going to explode.  I recommend buying your hearts desire and getting that troglodyte need out of your system understanding that soon, very soon, you're going to step up to a rocket ship disguised as a sleek SUV.  Just for jun and a peek at the future test drive a Model 3.
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cujet

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2019, 01:34:51 PM »
My preference is performance cars.

You have mentioned this a couple of times. now. I'm getting the impression a Volt is not going to make you at all happy and perhaps what you are really looking for is someone to talk you out of buying one.

I decided not to purchase the Volt. (remember, I need an additional car, the tax break, and really anything will do)

What drove me to avoid the Volt was the FACT that it actually costs more (in my area) to fuel it with electricity than it does to power it with gasoline!

Local elec power is 20-22 cents per KWH, 13.5+ taxes, fees, fuel charges, line charges, hurricane charges etc. Plus the rate increases when more is used. All the way up to 17c/kwh + fees....

A Volt will go 53 city miles, about 45 mixed or 37 highway on a full charge, consuming 16.5 KWH from the car's battery. (unless ya go stupidly slow, which some EV drivers do, in which case, 70 miles is possible)

Charge efficiency is 83.8%, meaning the power meter will run up a full 20KWH to charge the Volt. Or $4 to $4.40.
Quite simply, 10 cents per mile on EV power.

The Volt gets almost 40MPG with a dead battery, using gasoline alone. Local gas is $2 to $2.20 per gal.
Or, 5 cents per mile.

Sure, local prices affect the outcome. But one thing is clear, running an EV along with AC (or heat) reduces range significantly.

So in the end, it was tempting to get what seems to be quite a good car, but it simply makes no sense to pay more per mile for the pleasure.
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cujet

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2019, 01:44:07 PM »
Face it.  China, the biggest player on the field is going electric.   

The small, short range EV is perfect for China, limiting their citizens to a small zone of travel. It's no wonder the Chinese government is pushing EV's so hard.
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cujet

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2019, 08:01:13 PM »
EV drivers seem to be eternal optimists, often quoting range figures that are unhelpful, sometime there are no chargers when that range is reached.

The better Tesla cars seem to be able to go a predicted 250 highway miles at 80, with the AC on. Unfortunately, they end up charging far before that, due to charger location. A 400 mile trip typically requires 2 charge stops. Do-able, but not ideal.

Contrast that with the 2018 Nissan Altima that will get 36MPG high speed highway, and better than 600 mile range on a tank with plenty of reserve.

My friend gets 230 EV miles from his Tesla. 100 miles fewer than predicted, due to driving style. His "fuel" cost per mile is about double the Altima. I'm finding all of this fascinating, and I'm not at all sure the EV is the way to go.
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LowGear

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2019, 09:02:27 PM »
Interesting analysis.  I learn so much on this site.
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ajaffa1

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2019, 10:50:16 PM »
Hi Glort, Australia is a particularly unsuitable place for EVs because of the low population density and distances involved. I can certainly see their value in city areas but rural communities don`t have the electrical infrastructure to support them.

When I was living in London I did some research into the vulnerability of the electric supply to a terrorist attack. I was shocked to find that London is supplied by only seven incoming power lines, six above ground and one below. All of the above ground lines run through rural areas with no security and are maxed out. A single terrorist on a motorbike, with some Semtex, detonators and burn phones could take out the whole lot in an evening and still catch the Dover ferry to France.

London has a population approaching 8 million, if anyone believes that many people should charge their cars using the existing overloaded and insecure infrastructure, they are out of their minds.

I am surprised that the motor manufacturers continue down this path, when it is clear that the electrical infrastructure is completely inadequate. Perhaps it is a cynical attempt to sell us something that isn`t going to work, they can then sell us another one, with an ICE, that will.

Bob

BruceM

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 01:27:38 AM »
I expect there will be some serious glitches on the road of EV transition. 

I think we will soon see even bigger spreads on power cost depending on time of day and load-  perhaps even more than just peak, off peak, and super off peak.  If you don't plan ahead and end up charging on peak rates, it will be brutal.  I'd love to be charging a car at the APS winter super off peak rate of 3 cents a kwh.

It will also be interesting to see what happens to the numbers of people developing serious ES from the increased magnetic fields in electric cars, plus the huge increase in pulsed mm wave of 5G.  Even in conventional cars, the wireless and electronics in the car have increased dramatically.  It's almost like we're in a race to see how many people we can disable and destroy their quality of life. 






 

cujet

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2019, 02:43:24 AM »
I drive quite a few miles per year. Including a good number 1000 mile trips from FL to PA. The truth is, an EV can't make the trip in a reasonable amount of time.

Here is an interesting blog: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1089948_tesla-model-s-ny-to-fl-trip-from-home-to-south-carolina
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BruceM

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2019, 03:31:43 AM »
No doubt battery improvement will continue, and range and weight will decline.  There seems to be a good number of people willing to pony up for the current EVs, and that can only help with battery research and development funding.  Pragmatists will certainly benefit from waiting.

By all technical reports, Tesla has done exceptionally well in battery management- by that I mean cell voltage control at the cell level, not hoping a bunch of cells in series will cycle and stay matched in charge level.  They use a boatload of tiny TI battery management ICs with serial bus communications.  Nissan is paying for their BMS corner cutting with lots of battery failures under warranty.  I haven't found the details on the Bolt battery management scheme, but knowing GM cost pressures on Delco, I would investigate closely and give them a few years to take their lumps.









mikenash

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2019, 03:59:52 AM »
I'm less of a pessimist than Glort et al re the EVs (not to say that I may well be proved wrong and they may well be proved right . . .) I'm just more glass-half-full about that sort of thing

That Blog is fascinating as it's a real-world guy driving at 130 km/h (end up in handcuffs here if you do that, sadly) and using the heater and lights and enjoying the performance of his car in real-world conditions such as snow, and accepting that you normally break a trip for lunch or whatever somewhere anyway

For a great many people like me an EV would be a perfect service vehicle if there was a fast charger at my work - and if suitable vehicles were available.  Our team of seven engineers have daily commutes ranging from 80Ks (mine) down to 8Ks.  Our normal travel-to-job-and-back is usually about an 80K round-trip for 90% of jobs and up to maybe 250Ks for the farthest one or two sites.  I get a $100 fill of diesel one-and-a-half or two times a week. Sometimes three times a week if we are busy

Our small country has old-but-acceptable electrical infrastructure and we are 85%+ renewable.  Our government says that projected infrastructure upgrades are showing a faster growth in the provision of electricity availability than would be needed with even the most optimistic EV uptake projections

We also have big proportions of our population who are 3/4-hour one-way-trip commuters twice a day on routes that don't have good public transport.  EVs would probably serve many of them well

FWIW the Toyota Hiluxes and Isuzu DMaxes we use are $50K vehicles but the Indian and Chinese equivalents (reliability still to be proven) are only around half that $$ as fleet purchases.  In the future, I suspect that if there's a demand, there may well be Chinese-built EV service vehicles in the pipeline

I'm optimistic about the contribution tech can make to the challenges around EVs

What I'm less optimistic about is local and national government leading by example, moving their fleets to EVs, and contributing to a pool of secondhand Leafs or similar as the years go by and government vehicle fleets "rollover" every three years

NZ government fleet is conservatively estimated at 25,000 units, with local government fleets possibly adding a similar figure.  Some of these are buses and rubbish trucks etc; but if just half were suitable (say 24,000 cos it's an easy number) and if a third of them were rolled-over annually - that'd be 8000 2nd-hand EVs on the market every year

Kiwis register something like 700 Corollas, 200 i30s and Mazda3s plus another 400-odd similar-sized vehicles every month.  Maybe, in very crude terms, you could say we register 1300 vehicles every month that could be readily replaced by small/mid-sized EVs IF THEY WERE AVAILABLE.  Call it 16,000 a year for ease of maths and you could see the contribution that ex-govt-fleet of 8000 EVs would make if our governments had some balls

We could generate and reticulate the electricity with ease if there was a governmental will.  If the average diesel/petrol tanker holds 28,000 litres, and my Hilux uses 7,500 litres of diesel a year, every half-dozen comparable vehicles or, say, 15 "Corolla"-sized cars replaced by EVs might take a tanker-and-trailer off the road

Should I hold my breath?


ajaffa1

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2019, 05:47:09 AM »
I have to agree with Mikenash about NZ being a perfect candidate for EVs, plentiful hydroelectric power and short commuting distances are an ideal environment in which to test these new technologies.

BruceM raises a very valid point about the dangers of exposing ever more people to ever greater levels of electromagnetic radiation. I heard a very worrying statistic recently, in the USA 1 in 28 children born today will be diagnosed as having some form of autism. In the 1980s the figure was closer to 1 in 2000. Strangely enough in undeveloped parts of the world the incidence is almost nil.

Glort is quite right about the availability of the minerals/metals required for battery production and the difficulty off ramping up the mining operations to meet this new demand. I wonder how much fossil fuel gets burned in the mining, processing and distribution of these materials, might be more economically sensible to just use the FFs in an ICE.

I guess as we continue to deplete the available resources the prices will climb to a point at which only the very wealthy will be able to afford them and the rest of us will have to go back to walking, cycling, riding horses and siting in the dark on an evening. Pretty bleak future unless you own a Lister. Might be time to get back to finishing mine.

Bob

buickanddeere

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Re: Now for a bit of silliness, possibly purchasing a Chevy Volt....
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2019, 02:03:19 PM »
18.4Kw hr if used 0-100% on the Volt .  The Bolt has a serious sized battery pack with 60Kw hr . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt