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Author Topic: Lister load test  (Read 302 times)

SIR_LOIN

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Lister load test
« on: December 09, 2018, 07:34:46 PM »
    Hi i'm new here. So below is a link to a video i made from when i load tested the Lister over the weekend. This was the first time the Lister has ever been ran under load. I was loading it to about 3500 watts (5kw generator). Overall it performed really well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdfaq9ybMRw

A couple questions that have though regarding the lister and generator.
  • Are there any tricks to sealing the cylinder jug? I've been loosing a battle against the cover plates on the side of the jug. The side closest to the wall (not shown in the video) seems to leak no matter how much i try and seal it. I'm thinking of disassembling it and machining it flat. It also appears that i have water coming from around the studs that extend up from the block, through the jug, and then through the head. Its almost as if there is leak from the water jacket into the stud area. Has anybody dealt with that before?
  • If you watch the video you see the cooling system burp in the top hose (not the overflow) around the 4:46 mark. Is this normal? It seemed like it would do that every few minutes. I'm wondering if the lack of fans on the radiator was actually causing the system to run hot and those were steam pockets that were burping. The system never felt hot enough to be at that point though. 
  • If i work on balancing the engine, should i be able to get to a point that it can run it without it slowly scooting around the floor? I don't feel like it is terrible, but the straps i show going over to the payloader are to prevent it from slowly scooting over to the wall.

Overall i was really impressed with how well it handled the load. The to-do list consists of

  • Figure out how to seal up the jug so the cooling system doesn't empty itself onto the floor
  • Figure out how the oil dipper is supposed to be oriented (i haven't searched it yet in this forum)
  • Mount a fuel tank on the wall
  • Re-work generator mount so its not so shaky
  • Remove generator dog house and improve that wiring
  • Anchor base to the floor
  • Install radiator fans

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. I'm also going to try and get some Osmelloscope shots of the waveform from the generator.

[/list]


dkmc

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Re: Lister load test
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2018, 10:40:25 PM »

That's a cool rig, where did you get it?

Hugh Conway

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Re: Lister load test
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2018, 11:12:17 PM »
Sir_loin
Not in order, but.....
Dipper blade should be in line with the con rod......think knife cutting through the oil rather than a paddle.
Water around cylinder head studs.......seeping head gasket. The gaskets with copper faced fabric will wick water to the studs and also to the outer edges of the cylinder head/cylinder joint. This can be remedied by soaking the head gasket in  a liquid silicone floor wax or silicone tile sealer, letting it dry prior to installation.
The burp......possibly a leaking head gasket. Mine was.
Leaking jug cover plate?  Try something like Hylomar to seal the joint.
Once your engine bearers are firmly bolted to concrete, you might not find you need much (or any) balancing. ( I also have a Dursley Startomaric 6/1 and it travels if not bolted down.)
Dipper position excepted, I have experienced every one of the same problems.
I hope yours are as easy to remedy.
BTW, I located my gen head on the other side of the engine to avoid damage if there is water leakage from the cooling system, also makes oil changes a bit easier.
I am off grid and have been using our listeroid about 300 hours annually for battery charging when not sufficiently sunny or have an especially heavy load. I have had the problems and worked through them
Good luck
Cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

SIR_LOIN

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Re: Lister load test
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2018, 01:47:37 AM »
Thanks Hugh,

I was worried things were going to point towards the head gasket. At least its not really a difficult job to tackle.

I've been trying to use blue permotex RTV to seal those, i think I've also been too stingy with the application. I usually run a bead about the width of a pencil lead. I'll try being more generous.
I'm going to try and tackle most of these jobs throughout the upcoming week. I just wish i hadn't waited until it was in the 20's (-6c) to work on this. I don't retain heat very well. 

I'm, considering flipping the frame layout so the generator is on the other side. Both for the reasons you described, and because i would prefer the power stroke from the engine to be trying to push the frame into the base rather than pick it up off the base (not sure if that explanation makes sense). Luckily with the Payloader its actually pretty easy to pick up and move things. I might just wait until its warmer to tackle that project though.

SIR_LOIN

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Re: Lister load test
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2018, 01:51:21 AM »

That's a cool rig, where did you get it?

Diesel Electric Services in Kansas.

Hugh Conway

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Re: Lister load test
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2018, 04:02:00 AM »
@ Sir_loin
Yeah, pulling the head is a short job. at one point we had a problem with the air bubbles getting into the cooling system. All fine  for a long time (months), then for no apparent reason it would give a giant burp and spew  water/anti-freeze everywhere. Each of those times the fire ring on the head gasket had broken/burned through. Head gaskets from different sources and the problem still happened. Took the head to a machine shop to be resurfaced.........the old guy there re-sleeved my Dursley, and knew old engines. "does not need resurfacing" said he and told me to try again. I always have used a torque wrench, and had earlier found out about the silicone treatment, but still had the blown head gasket problem now and then.....same as before. Also the cylinder liner height was within spec, top of cylinder flat and square. Could not locate the problem then and never did......but no problem since and it has been at least 600 hours. Maybe a batch of not the best head gaskets, even though from different suppliers.
If you do pull the head, you might remove the hold down studs from the block and re-install them with a bit of loctite. This will make a seal at the lower threads so any coolant leakage cannot migrate down into the crankcase and then contaminate the oil. Won't take long and you don't have to remove the cylinder barrel. Just block up the barrel while applying the loctite......a couple of of clean 2X4 blocks work fine.
Yes, not so much fun in the cold........but it does get you to work faster! (I'm in Canada)
Oh Yes......almost forgot to welcome you to the forum. Glad you are here.
Cheers
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

38ac

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Re: Lister load test
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2018, 12:12:47 PM »
Hugh pretty much got everything for you.  With India involved it is hard to say with certainty but I can generalize.
I ddint watch the entire video due to slow internet here this AM but the bubbles in the upper radiator hose and leaks up the head studs are both head gasket problems.  Easy first step for that is to re torque the head. if that doesn't cure it then your in for removing the head, checking the surfaces and new head gasket. I have never seen a DES engine with a wet cylinder liner but if it has one they usually stick up too far. I can get into fixing that IF you have to go there.  I highly recommend the modern construction head gaskets. DES has both types in stock.   The side cover leaks are mostly caused by the hard as a rock OEM gaskets and sometimes the stud holes go into the water jacket, first look closely to see if the leaks are past the gasket or  under the nuts,  I have also seen a few covers that were machined from green castings and were badly warped.  The cure for stud leaks is pulling them, applying sealant and re installing them.  If the leak is from the gasket I am not one to  "fix" such  with goobs of various goops but they can work if the surfaces are first cleaned and dry.  The cure is to check the cover for being flat and make your own gaskets from  3/32 rubberized cork gasket material (Victor Reinz JV122)  I have heated the covers red and knocked them flat when needed. Also small leaks will often  themselves quickly as a specs of rust find there way to the leaks ;) 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 12:16:36 PM by 38ac »
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SIR_LOIN

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Re: Lister load test
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2018, 11:40:31 PM »
Appreciate all the help from you folks! Is there a recommended torque setting for these heads? I think i'll pull the head off and give it a good once over again. I think i'm going to try and do a few other things first though. I really want to get some O-scope photos off the generator.

dkmc

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Re: Lister load test
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2018, 11:54:09 PM »

Not to hi-jack your thread but just for reference I asked for and received a price quote from
DES. An 8/1 'kit' as they call it, $2195 and $495 shipping to upstate NY. I'm sure one can
pay a lot more for an 8/1 CS.

Hugh Conway

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Re: Lister load test
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 12:47:46 AM »
@ Sir-Loin
Re the torque values on head nuts. I believe the DES engines are more like the Dursley originals. Some of the other listeroids have a lesser number of studs. Best to ask Gary at DES about your particular machine, he can give you the correct values for your machine. DES also has a manual for just about everything.
In any case, here is a link to an old thread regarding head torque values.
http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=5636.0
Cheers,
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project