Author Topic: Power outages  (Read 6046 times)

ajaffa1

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Power outages
« on: November 28, 2018, 07:24:10 AM »
Hi Guys, another massive power outage. The power is out for about 300 km up and down the coast from Urunga to just north of  Lismore. So much for the gold standard poles and infrastructure promised to us when they privatized the distribution network. Guess all the executives are too busy investing their ill gotten and drinking champagne to worry about the customers they are supposed to service. Third outage in the last month.

Fired up the old ST2 and we now have power, I`ll be having a nice warm shower while everyone else will be going to bed dirty. I have phoned a few neighbors and invited them to come round.

Got to worry about the guys in Queensland who are facing catastrophic bush fires, with unprecedented threat to life and property, hoping they are not getting the  80 Km winds we are.

Got to go check the genny isn`t leaking oil or fuel.

Bob



LowGear

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2018, 04:58:32 PM »
When we first moved to the farm I was all excited about installing a backup generator.  As I was shopping for disconnect switches my favorite electrical equipment salesman asked kind of the same questions.  "How often does the power go off?" and "How long are those episodes?".  I decided to live here for six months and see.  We have better service out here 20 miles from town than we had back in the suburbs of Seattle.
NPR Tipper/Dump Truck
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BruceM

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2018, 05:21:44 PM »
I've been doing some research on power co. grounding practices around the world. 

Bob's comment:
''The power is out for about 300 km up and down the coast from Urunga to just north of  Lismore. So much for the gold standard poles and infrastructure promised to us when they privatized the distribution network. Guess all the executives are too busy investing their ill gotten and drinking champagne to worry about the customers they are supposed to service. Third outage in the last month.''

reminded me that Australia, most of the US, and Canada are the worst offenders in the world.  They all use T-NC (terra-neutral connected) with "MEN-  multiply earthed neutral" of the distribution neutral, and bypass transformer isolation in order to use the customer's grounding for their distribution line.  This is an abomination from the 1920's, which allowed the power co.s to save a few bucks by connected their lines to the customer water pipes (at the expense of customer safety and hugely elevated magetic fields).

This causes magnetic fields in homes and yards 100x higher than need be.  To then add a digital meter to this 1920's tech abomination and call it "smart" is like adding a digital pulse rate monitor on a horse pulling a buggy. 

Many other countries use WYE distribution with proper single point grounding of the neutral to avoid injecting current through the earth and aquifers.  They use RCD main service breaker and independent earth connection for the home earth connection.  This is called T-T (terra-terra) grounding and is the fastest growing system, worldwide.  If you wanted to improve your countries grid, you should be bellowing for this, or  I-T grounding, which is isolated, non-grounded lines- aka Delta, with earth grounding of the secondary (customer) neutral.  A few older cities in the US still use Delta, or I-T grounding, but 90% of the US is the abominable T-NC.

Privatized energy systems suffer the worst from the "race to the bottom" for service of lines, customers and customer health.  But they do make nice fat profits for shareholders and their executives.  It's interesting that as far as I can find so far, no nationally owned grid system in the world uses the abomination of T-NC grounding practice.

Based on the independent research from the 70's through today, the cost of this basic infrastructure grounding practice in public health misery and costs is huge. 







BruceM

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2018, 02:04:37 AM »
The history of private power companies in the US is also a classic tale of graft and corruption at the expense of the public  They invented what we now call "cigarette science" in the 1970's when independent research showed that EMFs were a serious health stressor.  They spent a bundle on bribes and to "campaign funds" to get the system we have in the US, where they have a monopoly but are "regulated" mostly by regulators who they fund, now openly here in AZ.  The public has no clue as the extent of collusion and corruption.

I moved off grid because of their insane T-NC with MEN (multiply earthed neutral), which caused my MS and epilepsy to flair up badly seasonally with load increases on our rural single phase power.  I now say with the cheap PV prices that the time is ripe to tell them to STUFF IT.  There is no chance of them behaving in a responsible way.

Load shifting and super quiet (CS ring a bell) backup generator can save you a bundle in batteries.  The conventional houses and building codes were built with cheap power in mind, or just altogether ignoring operating power costs.  A hell of a lot more insulation and redesign to improve energy efficiency is in order for retrofits.  Propane is a good clean fuel as solar backup and I expect synthetic propane will come along in another decade or two.






mikenash

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2018, 02:57:32 AM »
Up at my "retirement property" (a shed in a paddock with no services lol - and that's assuming there will be "retirement")  I have one of the CS Listers sitting gathering dust & birdshit and a couple of 230V gen heads in the shed - a project for "when I have time".  Plus there's a couple of big, 24VDC Leece-Neville truck alternators waiting to do some work - when I have time . . .

When I finally move up there, I'll put in some PV and batteries as the Bay of Plenty is NZ's sunshine capital - maybe in four or five years?

Meantime there's nothing to gain by having good batteries turning to sulphated crap by sitting around doing nothing for months on end - so solar can wait.  So I have several of the much-maligned petrol "screamers"

Pride of the fleet is a 2.4kW Chinese copy of a Honda.  New, 7 years ago, it cost $400.  I couldn't tell you how many hours it has done - hundreds anyway.  It has had a new carb ($40 and possibly unnecessary) and a new AVR ($27).  Both easy-peasy fits.  It's really quiet.  When I'm up there I just plonk it out behind my old Camry wagon at the end of an extension flex.  It has often run for 12-15 hours at a time on a winter's day.  Being petrol it doesn't mind running no-load

I have a genuine Honda 2.2kW unit which cost three times as much and that's the one I lend to neighbours whenever there's a power cut as it has a very easy pull-start.  There are lots of power outages up there due to steep terrain, storms and trees near power lines.  Also it's the one which my lady friend uses if she's up there on her own as she can manage the pull-start easily and it always starts first or second yank.  Otherwise it just sits under the shed doing nothing

There's also a big, circa 7kW unit which runs the hot-water-in-a-hurry cylinder.  That's a 60-litre cylinder with a 3600W element that draws about 15A on a 20A Reyrolle plug and heats up from cold in about half an hour to 85 degrees.  I use that if the sun isn't shining for the solat hot water or if the stove-with-wetback isn't running

For some reason I also have a "spare"  It sort of followed me home one day - a 3kW Chinese Honda copy with an electric start - I haven't used it in a year.  it was the electric start that sold it, I guess

All of them are kept full of gas with about a 1/0th of 1% mix of fuel stabiliser.  They always seem to start up just fine

I keep a spare carb and a spare starter assembly and a spare AVR and a pair of (light and heavy) throttle springs up there "just in case" as well.  I have long since established that - despite different stickers on the Chinese tinware, and different designs to the Chinese plastic bits - mechanically they are identical

Despite the bad press they get from purists - I think they're great.  I have convenience, reliability, redundancy in depth . . . I guess the whole lot probably owe me something like $2200 spent over the last five years.  I may never have to spend another penny on them

There's a lot to be said for convenience when you turn up at midnight after a day's work and a six-hour drive

Just my $0.02 on the generator front

ajaffa1

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2018, 03:48:44 AM »
Well guts, yesterdays power outage has convinced me that it really is time to complete my Lister CS/ ST5 project. Running the Lister ST2 and only pulling one third of it`s available output is not going to be doing it any good. It needs a long run under heavy load or the cylinders start to glaze. Running the CS, with the same load, would be somewhere between half and three quarter power. Much better.

Dropped the head and cylinder off at the local engineering shop this morning. In a very strange twist of fate the guy who will be doing the work is the same guy that recovered, what was left of my Ute,from a field two years ago after my accident. Wonder if I`ll get discount as a regular customer?

I`ve got a couple of those Chonda engines running water pumps, never had a problem with the engines only the carburetors. Replaced them with genuine Honda carbs and they run a dream, I think the difference is simply a quality control issue or possibly poor gaskets.

Couple of pics showing the ST unloaded and loaded.

Bob

mikenash

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2018, 05:48:29 AM »


I`ve got a couple of those Chonda engines running water pumps, never had a problem with the engines only the carburetors. Replaced them with genuine Honda carbs and they run a dream, I think the difference is simply a quality control issue or possibly poor gaskets.

Couple of pics showing the ST unloaded and loaded.

Bob
[/quote]

By chance I live & work near an importer of these generators - they do anything that is portable-ish & has a Chinese Honda-clone engine - generators, pumps, log-splitters, concrete-cutters . . . and I have found them to be honest and capable. 

They maintain their particular motor supplier also makes Hondas - as evidence they showed me a bunch of spare parts in Honda-logo boxes with the Honda stuff scribbled over with black felt pen . . .

As you say, Bob, QC is key, and I have never had an issue with any of these guys' gear.  Fingers crossed

ajaffa1

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2018, 06:53:49 AM »
Hey Glort, strangely enough the local machine shop also repairs/services motor vehicles. They have the NRMA franchise to tow/recover damaged vehicles. Very lucrative business considering how many hoons and f*ckwits there are on the roads these days.

I have also had big problems with fuel lines going hard and brittle. Not sure if the problem is with the fuel or cheaply imported fuel lines. I only ever run E10 in one lawn mower that is reasonably new and specifies it as the fuel of choice. It does not appear to be any more or less reliable than any of my other equipment. E10 is probably OK provided you don`t let it stand too long, once it has absorbed a whole lot of moisture out of the atmosphere it will cause corrosion to any metal parts it comes in contact with. The lawn mower in question has a plastic fuel tank, plastic and nylon carburetor and polyethylene fuel lines, nothing to corrode.

I have four chainsaws of various sizes and makes. One of them I made the mistake of putting E10 in. It ran perfectly well until I wanted to refill it and couldn`t get the fuel filler cap off. Apparently this is a common problem with these saws, the ethanol in the fuel causes the plastic cap to swell! Once I did get the cap off with a wrench I left it open overnight, the ethanol evaporated and the cap fits perfectly. If you are looking for  chainsaw parts for Husqvarna or Stihl check out a company called Farmertec in Singapore, the prices are about a quarter of what you will pay here.

Hi Mike, pretty sure you are right about Honda having stuff made in China. Nothing wrong with that, the Chinese are perfectly capable of making very good quality machinery. The mistake people make is in trying to drive the price of components down too low, at which point the manufacturer will have to start cutting corners and reducing quality.

One trick I always use on Chonda engines is to run them for a few hours and then re-torque all the bolts including the cylinder head. I haven`t had to replace a head gasket since I started doing this. One of my Chinese Davey pumps leaked from day one, striped it and found that some idiot had put the ceramic seals in back to front, it`s run like a champion ever since.

I have another one which I need to connect up to the dam, This one will be used to irrigate fruit trees and will have a diverter valve to pump water up to a sprinkler system on the roof, in the event of another bush fire. Not sure I`m up to digging trenches at the moment so it will have to wait.

Amazing how many of these motors, pumps, chainsaws and generators get thrown out by incompetent home owners every time there is a council cleanup. I guess if it doesn`t start first go they just chuck it out and buy a new one. Great for the Chinese economy and very bad for ours, can`t be doing much for the environment either.

Bob

Bob

mikenash

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2018, 07:36:47 AM »
Interesting comment about re-torquing things.  I haven't made that observation

We have the Chinese motors in pumps & small gensets at work which we use pretty hard - issues are commonly limited to the odd AVR, replacement starter assemblies cos it's easier than pull-cords, and an annual oil-change

You're on the $$ re quality control and price point.  After all, the Chinese make cars & high-speed rail and aircraft carriers etc.  It's our own fault if we demand cheap and then get cheap

The downside is that our demand for cheap has driven suppliers of well-made, last-a-lifetime stuff into extinction.  Look at the way an old 20-series John Deere or an old Ford 5000 is still running after 40 years as long as it's had a bit of maintenance.  Or a proper Husqvarna or Jonsereds saw.  Or a CS for that matter  :)

ajaffa1

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2018, 07:53:22 AM »
Hi Mike, another downside of our wasteful, cheap mentality is that most young families stick the cost of this awful crap on a credit card. The tool/machine is scrap before they have even finished paying it off. Their total lack of any practical knowledge of machinery just exacerbates the problem.

Bob

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2018, 08:37:42 AM »
I like reading the posts about generators always good to learn something. I am warming to Chinese machines a little but God there's still some crap around.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/generators/brand-new-silent-6.5kw-mill-german-generator/1322198385

These seem particularly cheap and nasty they are on all the local selling websites usually being sold by guys with thick Irish accents and driving white vans. I was reading somewhere recently that the windings in these generators are aluminium which I doubt is a good thing.

ajaffa1

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 11:58:56 AM »
Hey Johndoh, when I lived in the UK there were no end of Irish travelers trying to sell stuff to the workers on my building sites. It all looked good but was made from mild steel rather than high carbon steel. Had to ban these guys from site and make it by appointment only with reputable dealers.

Aluminium is a better conductor than copper but melts at 660 degrees Celsius, Copper melts at around 1085 Celsius, I`m sure you can work out the difference for yourself.

Bob

guest23837

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2018, 02:40:05 PM »

I think that's bit of a moot point Bob.

The insulation varnish on whatever windings will be well and truly Kaput at 300o no matter what the windings are made of! There are a lot of advantages of copper over ally, price is about the only drawback but given the same units in each, I doubt the difference would be that much.

Maybe biggest problem with ally windings is if they cheap out on the coils, they probably make everything else as cheap and dodgy as they can as well.

In Ireland we refer to travellers as them fcukers!

BruceM

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2018, 04:24:40 PM »
"Aluminium is a better conductor than copper but melts at 660 degrees Celsius, Copper melts at around 1085 Celsius, I`m sure you can work out the difference for yourself."

Copper is the better electrical conductor by far. (Also better for heat conduction.)
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/copper-aluminum-conductor-resistance-d_1877.html

The problem with aluminum wire is usually the larger size to carry the same current, and the problem of dissimilar metals and corrosion at connections. My neighbor's ST-3 with aluminum windings on the rotor failed- with an open winding on one rotor coil.  The failure was NOT at the terminals, but somewhere in the middle of the winding.  So I would conclude that it was a flaw in metalurgy. I've never seen that happen in copper but don't know enough about aluminum wire failures to be certain.

mikenash

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Re: Power outages
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2018, 06:17:17 PM »
FWIW the generator guys that we deal with say they have never seen an actual alternator failure on the China gensets and were quite dismissive of the idea - "you never get an alternator failure - things like AVRs, yes, but never the windings"  Probably not a lot of load on a 2-10kVA unit actual copper windings?