Author Topic: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia  (Read 847 times)

ajaffa1

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2018, 06:54:57 AM »
 Hey Glort, how was NZ?

Only 12 months for your Brother in Law to do some turning for you? What I would give for a Doctor, Surgeon, lawyer or insurance company that would act so swiftly!  :laugh:

Like your idea of a stepped shaft to accommodate different sized pulleys for different applications. I was considering some sort of a lay shaft to drive various demands, I may have to think again.

I will probably opt for twin A belts as the cost of a 250 mm twin B belt pulley will buy a lot of A belts. I`m not a tight arse by nature but I`m facing multiple surgeries to repair injuries from the accident. Very unlikely I will be able to work for at least another twelve months, so got to be very careful with the pennies. Very aggravating having all this time on my hands and no money to do any of the things I want doing, even if I briefly feel well enough to do them.

Hey Stef, glad you concur with my calculations, I suspect that there will be some wear on the belts so RPM may have to be tweaked a bit during regular maintenance. I was going to aim for 51/52 Hz unloaded expecting things to drop a bit as I up the demand.

I was thinking to make a tensioning system similar to the one in the photo, just bigger and stronger. I made a pair of these a few years back after the local village water pump motor got washed away in a flood event. The river rose by 24 meters! This one is the spare and has been in my shed ever since.

Bob

glort

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2018, 11:17:35 AM »
Hey Glort, how was NZ?

Was many things Bob, Very beautiful for sure. Somewhat backward, frustrating at times, great food and wine, Very scenic, Fun, scary, painful, annoying and did I mention the great scenery??

3rd trip there but it's amazing how much you forget in a few years. Was weird. We could remember a lot about our first trip but none of us could remember beans about the 2nd one. We have been racking our brains where the hell we went, what the hell we did. The HDD with all the pics of the trip on it has a corrupted MBR I have to fix so for the moment, we can remember what we did and where we went 6 years ago with great clarity but it's like The 2nd trip 4 years ago was a figment of our imagination.

Not sure if I'll go again.  All in all it was a bit too painful for me but the Mrs and daughter enjoyed themselves so that's the main thing.  I was amazed they couldn't get another shooter in NZ to do what I do but then the guy I work for showed me what the guy last year did when I couldn't go and then I understood.

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Only 12 months for your Brother in Law to do some turning for you? What I would give for a Doctor, Surgeon, lawyer or insurance company that would act so swiftly!  :laugh:

Time moves slow in the medical/ legal/ insurance world. Don't ask me how I know. Don't want to think about it.
Annoying thing with the BIL is the trade off favour for him doing this had to be done asap and I got a lecture about it.  I always do things for people quick as I can because I know how annoying waiting like I have is. Unfortunately they sometimes fail to have the same consideration.

Mate not far from me bought a lathe the other week.  I helped him put it in and he was more than happy for me to come use it any time I want. He said he needs it but it won't get used often but as something for the business and the fact he has to get things done quick, it's worth it.  I haven't seen what tools he has for it yet but even if I have to buy some to do my own work, will be well worth it.

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Like your idea of a stepped shaft to accommodate different sized pulleys for different applications. I was considering some sort of a lay shaft to drive various demands, I may have to think again.
  I have amassed a bunch of pulleys and what ever one I want for any job is always the wrong bore size.  I thought this way I can accommodate the majority of what I have and as the engine could be used for various things, it was the easy way of making it as universal as possible.

I need to do another one for the 30 Hp 2 Cyl Ruggerini I bought earlier in the year. That thing has an SAE drilled and tapped flywheel drive and a PTO plate/ shaft for that is $300 to buy.  Cheaper to have an engineering shop do it and cheaper still to use the steel I have or even cast up something in aluminum and make my own. 
Speaking of which, BIL wants me to cast up some aluminum parts for him but that won't be happening anytime soon. I don't have the time and where I am, I can't go firing up flame throwers with the fire restrictions apart from the bad idea it would be anyhow with things being so dry. Lot of things I want to get done here before Christmas and that's going to take all the motivation and energy I have.  Right now frigging round with burners is not something that I could be bothered with.

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I will probably opt for twin A belts as the cost of a 250 mm twin B belt pulley will buy a lot of A belts.
I didn't realise there was a significan't difference but then again, never compared either. Twins make a big difference to singles anyway.  Mate was in power transmission years back and on occasions would hire me to take pics of things in quarry's, mines and factories. Loved those jobs, very interesting.  Some of these motors had 8 or 12 belt pulleys on them.  Idea was they could loose at least half and still not worry. Every year they changed them all out with the yearly maintence.
They look simple but when you get up to that level things get pretty critical and precise.

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I`m not a tight arse by nature but I`m facing multiple surgeries to repair injuries from the accident. Very unlikely I will be able to work for at least another twelve months, so got to be very careful with the pennies.

I'm real sorry to hear that Bob. I thought you were over the worst of it and on the mend. I hope it all goes as well as possible for you.    At least you will have plenty of time to impart your vast wisdom on things here. Like Ed and Bruce and some others, your " rants" here as you call them are things I learn a lot from and feel smarter from having read them even though you guys often dismiss their good value. If talking about things is a help to you at all, I'm always happy to be a sounding board for you privately or publicly. Don't know there is much else I can do for you but if there is, you just let me know.

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Very aggravating having all this time on my hands and no money to do any of the things I want doing, even if I briefly feel well enough to do them.

Yes, been there, done that for a long time. But I think there is something worse.
Having the money to do things but not having the inclination or motivation to do be fussed with anything you would have jumped at  some years earlier. 

I went to the doc the other day.  Apparently I'm the healthiest I have been in a number of years. Apart from my Diabetes which is doing well, I'm better than average for someone my age... as hard as that is for me to believe. Unfortunately my head is lagging behind my physical well being badly and not coming along as it should.  No surprises there. It has really been getting me down latley.  There is a lot I could do but I just could not care less about anything. I have been so tired and lacking in energy and the doc puts that down to depression rather than a physical problem.  Had someone told me they had this a few years back, I would have dismissed them as being many uncomplimentary things but now here I am. Maybe it's just Karma at work.

Spose you put the 2 of us together like a couple of old cars and you could make one good one.  If only it were that easy.



That tensioner reminds me of a Sawbench my grandfather built when I was a kid.
The motor was Hinged at one end and it's own weight was the tensioner.  Everyone told Grandad what was wrong with it which I think he liked as he would pull out some thick lump of timber and shave off a slice to show them it worked perfectly.

Something similar where the driven load was fixed and the motor was the hinged part using it's own weight for tension might be something worthwhile in some applications.

EdDee

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2018, 12:25:48 PM »
Hey Guys...

Unless you want to become unhinged by the rattling and driving yourself nuts with that sort of tensioner on a "one power stroke every 4 days" style engine, rather opt for just the 4 slotted holes and a couple of jack bolts to tension the belts...

I tried one of these on one of my TM's a while back and it drove me nuts with the rattles....

Just my 2c worth, probably not actually worth that much too....

Cheers
Ed
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12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
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Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

ajaffa1

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2018, 12:43:59 PM »
Hey Buddy and welcome back. I`ve missed you and I`m sure the rest of the forum have too.  I`m very glad to hear you had an OK time in NZ even if it has thrown a bit of a fruit loop into the equation regarding previous visits. I went skiing in the Alps every year, for twenty years, with my Wife and family and none of us can agree on exactly which year we did what. Don`t worry about it, remember the good stuff and F*ck the rest of it, life`s too short. Very pleased to hear your Wife and Daughter enjoyed the trip.

With regards lawyers and etc. I think glaciers melt quicker , the question is will I be killed by old age or global warming/climate change before I get my day in court to sue these b*stards!

Very pleased that a mate of mine also bought a lathe a while back, with tooling. Its only small so I`m limited in what I can do but what an enormous saving when it comes to replacing bushes and etc. I would dearly love to have a milling machine, lathe and broaching press in my shed but the costs are prohibitive and I`m probably too crook to make worthwhile use of them. I do miss the equipment that was available when I was in the RAF, we could make anything and we did, up to and including a new bonnet for an E type Jaguar.

Pulleys, what a pain in the arse! Why can`t we standardize things? We have too many standards, Imperial/Metric and then all the weird and wonderful sh1t coming out of the third world. Confused? you will be!  :laugh:

The difference between A  and B belts is in their strength and contact surface area, B belts for heavy loads. For a six HP  Lister CS engine, twin A belts and pulleys are a cheaper option and will probably still be going when I am long dead.

I`m with you on the issue of money and no inspiration as apposed to inspiration and no money. We need to either get together and be brilliant/successful or sit on our arses and do f*ckall in tandem!  :laugh:

Thank you for your concern for my health and well being, I guess we have to play with the cards we`ve been dealt, even if it drives us half crazy. When I watched some of the guys in the Invictus games it made me feel quite ashamed that I can`t overcome my PTSD and anxiety issues when these blokes have been through much worse than me and are embracing life. I always thought I was tough until I watched them!

Not sure what you would end up with if you tried to build one good man out of two f*cked up ones, were you planning to build one very f*ucked up one out of what was left? Thank you for that thought, best laugh I have had in months, my wife now thinks I am even more strange.

Bob


glort

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2018, 08:26:39 PM »

I did enjoy parts of the trip. Shooting the work was a bore but thankfully it was much easier than I expected. In Sydney the weekend before they were running 300 routines a day. In NZ i'm not sure of the number but I'd guess it was 100 or less. Walk in the park compared to what I have done before.

A highlight was working with the stripper girls and not for the obvious reasons. Got some great pics which gave me a much needed shot of Motivation  but they were the dead opposite of what I expected. HIGHLY intelligent girls, polite and well mannered beyond belief, very cultured, professional and respectable. Polar opposite of the pre conception I had in mind. I was thinking unmarried mothers with 4 kids to 5 different fathers and got Royal Princesses.

They were just enjoyable people to hang out with and even the Mrs and my daughter enjoyed their company when we had drinks and dinner after the shoots.  For the 2nd one, we all met up in town afterwards as the girls wanted to show us this Nice Italian restaurant  they knew of and insisted on paying for us at the end in return for me doing their pics... which I was already paid for but they wanted to do it as their thank you which was incredibly kind of them I thought.

 Their occupation sounds very seedy but these girls were some of the nicest and most refined people for their age or any other I have met.
They want to come to OZ and Mrs said you are welcome to come stay at our house for as long as you want and my daughter said yeah, I could see myself becoming close friends with them and them fitting right into our group.

Talking to them was very interesting and enlightening.  Certainly I would not be thrilled about my daughter doing what they do  ( and neither would she thankfully) BUT, these kids are earning $3K a week on a bad week and $3k a NIGHT on a good night. And they don't do anything other than dance round in their birthday suits.  For what they do, I was surprised at their Genuine high moral standards.
Not sure I could dance round in my birthday suit for $3k a week. Imagine the sick puppys that would pay to see that! AGGGHHH!
Pretty young Girl be a different matter.  :0)  I must go to a strip club one day and put that on my bucket list to see what all the hoopla is about and do what every other bloke on the planet seems to have done that I have never bothered with. Must be something to it?

The scenery in NZ I found amazing. It just never stops.  We would get in the car and go a few Km, if that and then stop to get out and look and take pics. bit further down the road and there was something else you couldn't go past. Went up to the bay of Islands and the Mrs booked an afternoon trip for us that was well over $300.  I thought Hope I don't regret this. Do it again in a heart beat. Fantastic.  Going out the weather was shitty amd there were storms blowing in. Just made things look more dramatic.  2 spots of rain and then the sun came out just as we arrived at the Highlight destination, hole in the rock.  Could not have been better.

So much of the place is relatively backward though.  Crappy old places everywhere with million dollar views... often right next to Multi million dollar homes. Don't know of anywhere you could get views likie hundreds of these crappy places have here for less than a fortune even in the middle of no where. And being NZ, you are never more than 2 hours away from a main city..... well as main citys as they get there. More like Suburban City or country hubs here.
Sydney Airport, 65 gates. hardly anything exceptional. Auckland Airport, 16.  Sydney Population, 3m?  Entire NZ population, 3m. Says it all really.

The amount of asians and Punjabs there stuns me though. They far outnumber the European and native Marois put together. I find that sad really. Like the country has lot a lot of it's identity although they try hard to embrace their culture but in reality, the Asians and Punjab couldn't care less and are hell bent on making things like where they came from rather than giving a damn about where they are.  A lot of them are really only using NZ as a backdoor to easier immigration to Oz anyway.

I went to some gun shops to drool over what they have there.  Racks of AK's, AR's and about anything else you could want.  guns are reasonably priced, ammo is a fortune. The thing that was clear though was the reflection on the culture.  Licencing is pretty basic there, long as you are not a crim you can get what you want with little problem or fuss.  there are all sorts of things out there but unlike other places, there isn't a problem with gun crime, shootings or anything else.  Backs up what I have always said, these shootings and things people blame on guns are not the fault of the tool but rather the mentality of the person holding onto them.
I think owning a Silencer here is about 5 years in the pokie. There they sell them on a LOT of packages where you get the rifle, a bipod, scope, spare mag and the Silencer.

I can only assume they are not worried about hit men ruuning round offing people because it rarely happens but scaring the sheep is a problem they won't accept!

I found another complication to Pulleys a while back. That 2 Wheel tractor I was going to convert to diesel..... I got the diesel engine to replace the petrol one that has been working so well but came unstuck with that. 
It's not a 3/4 or a 1" Shaft or any metric equivalent on the Diesel... it's 20 MM, another size again. The other engines I have the same are 3/4  or 19.05 mm so they decided to change that somewhere.  So far none of the industrial suppliers I have contacted have that size and neither do the people making the pulleys so it's a matter of buy a blank and bore it or get it bored. It never bloody ends!


 
People that have had no problems have no idea of what people that have go through and their sense of values are frequently off IMHO.
While we bitch, there are people like Bruce that probably think  I'd like to be as well off as you fkers are.  It's all relevant I think. There are many difficulties of many levels and you have to have walked in the persons shoes to really understand them.

I'm with you on the anxiety. I was nearly throwing up for a fortnight before we went. I had a churning feeling in my stomach, a dry mouth and a sense of impending doom.  When we were there, several times I though I was going to fall over. I would see something where we had been before and it was like a memory and reality merging into one in my minds eye. The memory of the past and who was there just hit me like a wave and a couple of times I did actually stumble as my legs went weak and my heart started to try to pound through my chest.  Then I was left trying to fight back the tears and not upset the Mrs and daughter.

And people look at me strange when I tell them I prefer to just stay at home.

Seeing we are talking Miracles about one good one out of 2,  we might need a 3rd person in on this as well as I'm not sure that the pair of us have enough good working parts to make something that would pass a rego check and be road worthy.


mikenash

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2018, 12:47:11 AM »
NZ population just hit 5 million recently

Ethnic diversity?  Let me quote from the most recent (2017) stats below:

The majority of New Zealand's population is of European descent (74 percent), with the indigenous Māori being the largest minority (14.9 percent), followed by Asians (11.8 percent) and non-Māori Pacific Islanders (7.4 percent).
Minor ethnic: Māori 14.9%; Asian 11.8%; Pacific peoples
Major ethnic: European 74.0%
Population: 4,885,300 (Stats NZ 2017 estimate)

glort

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2018, 06:22:41 AM »

I would gaurantee that ethnic breakdown does not apply in Auckland that's for sure. Maybe as an overall but not in the main city.

I was so amazed at how many Asians and Punjabs were there, I did another Video of people just walking by in a couple of places.  Clearly shows how few Europeans and Maoris are there over all. I did see more Maoris further out, they have a lot in common with our Aboriginals.

On our last day in Paihia, there was a geriatric invasionand coup attempt. One of the Princess line Cruise ships came into port and shops that had not been open in the time we were there were suddenly open and well staffed.  The amount of old fogies hobbling round was scary and the smell of Dencorub was thick in the air. Geez old people en masse are pains in the arse! Move like tired snails, always seem to stand in the middle of things so you can't get past, can't make a simple decision between Passion fruit and vanilla and are a terrible reminder of what the years ahead hold for us heading that very same way.... if we make it that far.

The whole trip my fashinista Daughter had been at me for what I had been wearing and complaining about what I was going out in. Made me change a load of times to co ordinate better so I was fit to be seen in her company.
After seeing what these old buggers were wearing and how ridiculous some of them looked, I thought maybe having her nag me isn't such a bad thing after all if it stops me going out in public looking like some of these blokes. The women were OK but I was left to wonder if they had any mirrors in the cabins on this ship or all the blokes were bind were all blind and dressed themselves or selected there attire for the day in the pitch dark? ?

Mrs had been talking about our next holiday being a cruise but I told her, there is no way i'm getting on the good ship geriatric until I'm well and truly one of them and a lot further gone than I am now.
My daughter suggested the alternative was some booze cruise where they partied all night and I'd never get any sleep. I said that would suit me fine! I never sleep at night anyway and at least there would be some young people to talk to rather than old fogeys recanting stories of the good old days when bread was  5 Cents a loaf and when electric lights replaced the gas ones in their family home.  Bugger that. 

Maybe the ethnic demographics change a LOT from area to area but the numbers in no way reflect what we saw in Auckland and surrounds.

5M people 'eh?  I guarantee there are 2M of them all trying to get over the Auckland Bridge on a Friday afternoon. How in hell can traffic move so slow over good 6 lane highways when there are so fe people in the city to start with and no breakdowns or accidents? Bad as Sydney with shit roads and many times more people.

Americans couldn't survive in NZ. they would have heart attacks. Petrol was $2.36 Liter/  $8.97 a gallon when I was there. 
Americans want to invade Canada to take the oil when fuel hits $4 a gallon!
While the majority of cars are small 4 Cyl jap imports, there are still a lot of people running full size Australian 6's and V8's.  Probably explains the level of much of the housing there. Nothing left for a decent home, all goes on fuel.  A lot of euro luxury cars there too so a good number of people there are doing real well.

old seagull man

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2018, 07:30:41 AM »
The Pictures..

As you can see the head isn't that bad and the wiring, is not that fantastic, but its all there.
So im looking for a 38mm taperlock bush with a matching 140mm 3 section v belt pulley.
and will start with two belts, and go to 3 if needed. Cant see i would need all four.

An suggestions on ebay AVR's was thinking SX 460 or something like. Or are they only for Brushless heads?

So thats were it stands at the moment. May replace the top box with something bigger and put the power sockets on one side and the meters and breakers on the other.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 07:52:27 AM by old seagull man »

BruceM

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2018, 08:11:18 AM »
The consensus on ST heads for stationary use is to remove the doghouse and replace it with a smaller box for electrical interconnect only, and move your electronics to a wall mounted box.

I did that after watching the the usual failures. (We all want to believe it can't be that bad.) I used a die cast aluminum box that just covers the top opening.

The stock analog meter typically fails within a few hours of run time.  It's a very high vibration location.  If it is for a portable rig, I'd still remove the doghouse, and would not mount even digital electronics in that location.





« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 08:12:59 AM by BruceM »

ajaffa1

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2018, 08:22:23 AM »
Hi OSM, when I bought my head, Stephen threw in a GAVR 15B AVR, looks to be an OK unit although the wiring diagram is a bit confusing. Cheapest I could find on fleabay is this one https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-Diesel-Generator-Part-AVR-GAVR-15A-Automatic-Voltage-Regulator/122996408286?epid=2286885748&hash=item1ca3283fde:g:kg0AAOSwSP9bUaiE:rk:59:pf:0

Is the pulley on your engine for an A or B belt?

Totally agree with BruceM about vibration causing problems. Once I get around to building a permanent home for my CS and generator head I will be moving every thing onto the wall.

Bob


old seagull man

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2018, 12:59:25 PM »
Don't know will have to measure, the beast. Looks bigger than a standard fan belt. when cars had fans, let alone fan belts.


ajaffa1

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2018, 09:59:57 PM »
Hi OSM, measure the width of the grooves at the widest point, A belts are 12.7 mm wide, B belts 16.7 mm and C belts 22mm.

Hoping it`s an A belt pulley as B and C belts and pulleys are a bit pricey. When I as working in the Boral sawmills we standardized everything to run A belts because of this. Everything except for the waste chippers which ran six 5 meter long D belts, these had to be exactly matched in length, if one belt got damaged we had to change all six. Very glad I wasn`t paying for them!  :laugh:

Bob

ajaffa1

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2018, 10:24:32 PM »
Hi OSM, just did a quick price check on pulleys and taper lock bushes.

SPA 140 mm triple $56.98
SPA 140 mm quad $67.68

SPB 140 mm triple $64.14
SPB 140 mm quad $77.15

2517 Taper lock bush for 38 mm shaft with 10 mm key $28.80

Don`t know what delivery charges would be.

Bob

glort

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2018, 02:18:23 AM »

They seem very good prices Bob. Where did you get them from?

The A/B prices don't seem that much different to me. I also note one would pay less for a B triple than an A quad. have to compare belt prices as well but 3 against 4 may hedge the costs there some as well.

I'd think for the job,  single and Doubles would be more appropriate, Doubles and triples at worst.

I was "talking " to some guys on the web last year whom are into those high power stereos and run 4 and 6 300A alternators.  What a bunch of pelicans those guys are. Noise must have affected their brains as well as their hearing.   All insisted they NEEDED all these alts but then when given the specs of the system they didn't come near the power draw they insisted the alts had to provide.

They were talking about the serpentine belts not lasting long and a quick lookup showed why. I forget the numbers now but each bend and each tensioner reduces the power carrying capacity of the belt.  Just having all the alts and idlers nearly put the belts beyond their limit for normal use.  Expecting them carry even half the load of all the alts was waay beyond their power carrying capacity.  Trying to point that out was like trying to tell them all the alts were unnecessary as was the suggestion that if the noise competitions went for under 5 Min, they would be far better off with an extra battery than a bunch of alternators.

But what would I know?  I was just going on facts and figures and laws of physics. No room for that when you are trying to make yourself and everyone else within half a mile deaf and showing off is more important than any sort of sound engineering.
Some of those things had Alt setups capable of delivering over 15 Kw!

Those Serpentine belts MUST be strong to carry the loads these pelicans put them under at all and don't just snap straight off being so over loaded.

old seagull man

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Re: 5-8kw Gen Head Australia
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2018, 07:57:53 AM »
Wow thanks guys, for all the info. And the shopping.

Bob who is the supplier you refer to with those pulleys? That looks like were i will be going.
I will measure the pulley on the engine in the morning, im in the middle of a 18 hour work day at the moment,
so wont be struggling around the shed at 1am.

I know Glort is awake then and up to his best work, but i need sleep and to keep in good with the wife.

thanks again for everyone's help. :)