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Author Topic: More generator questions  (Read 496 times)

glort

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2018, 01:10:42 PM »

As I said, I don't know why the neutral and earth are ever Connected in some applications. I'm certainly not even in the same breath as an expert but it makes no sense to me. From my way of thinking, they are and should be all separate.

The main thing I have run gennys for as in most hours was an event trailer I had.  Used to go out mainly to Equine events and take pictures. In the trailer we had some servers, PC's and printers. In a tent we put at the back I ran up to 24 Small form factor computers with small 14" screens.
We took the pics, uploaded them to the servers and the PCs accessed the pics. We then printed out peoples orders whom selected them from the View stations or burnt them a CD.

The trailer had a caravan type plug and I just put the genny straight in that and earthed both the genny and the trailer with metal rods we drove ( or on occasion, tried to drive) into the ground.
Never gave any problems what so ever.

If the house is isolated from the mains then I don't see any reason it's not the same as a trailer.  Any short will be still grounded back at the genny and the active and neutral are separated. If you put an RCD on the genny then you are as protected as possible far as I know. A lot of gennys here used on work sites are required to have them because they make electrocution as near to impossible as you can get. You sure as hell can't tie the Neutral and ground together using them though as they would trip as soon as there was power.

I take it you are talking about powering the whole house and not just a powerboard through the window?
If so, how are you going to make the connection? With the transfer switch or with a Suicide cable?
I was only sitting out the back verandah thinking about that today.  I'll have to shut my solar down the next day or two as the reading is coming up and I'm getting 25Kwh ahead each day. I was thinking it would be good to run a lead to my neighbors place and give him a few weeks reduction in his power.  Then I was thinking how to do it?  No way I'd give anyone a live pinned cable and I was thinking about a lead/ plug design that would be safe either way. Obviously would have to have recessed connectors.

Other than us dodgy DIYers, no reason or market I can think of for such cables although may be handy in emergency situations such as this for powering a home from a genny. Then again, with the ignorance of most, You did that and you'd have people trying to switch on the clothes dryer, kettle and the AC at the same time because you would not be able to get it through their heads the power was limited not to mention the sense of entitlement you'd be dealing with in so many. 

The only way to really do this with any safety ( and you know my loathing of that word!) is to hard wire from the genny circuit back to the house with no plugs at all. You would want that transfer switch as well or to go through a DPDT relay that was activated when the mains was on and only dropped and connected the gen power when it was off. that would be a very sinple and cheap solution avoiding the expense of a transfer switch and the Mrs forgetting to shut the mains down.  Wouldn't stop the problem of running the genny unconnected but the alarm wired across the circuits I mentioned would.

If you are going through the lead through the window or a separate circuit, definitely no worries there as it's nothing different to the normal genny use.

Maybe someone else can confirm or caution but I can't see any problem at all matching the wiring of the genny to the house and grounding the Genny itself.  Put an RCD on the Genny and you have virtually eliminated any but the most unlikely of problems.

Johndoh

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2018, 10:52:56 AM »
I connected an electric kettle 2.2 kw hairdryer 1.6 kw voltage dropped to 217 volts and frequency to 49.8 thats way more than I will need so happiness abounds in the shed! I had a minor panic attack when the oil pressure light came on, turned out it was the switch I applied 60 psi and it stayed lit! I assume any low psi switch with the same thread will do.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 03:47:20 PM by Johndoh »
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glort

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2018, 01:48:43 PM »

At 117V, I'd say the thing probably had more to go. That's just taking up the slack really.
It's probably a 4 or more likley 5KW head but if 3.5 is all you need, better still!

With the oil pressure gauges you should be able to look them up.  I was looking for some a while back. There is a brand here, Tridon, and on their site they list all the switches they do the thread size, switching pressure and other info.  VERY handy info.
Other brands would probably have the same thing so look up what you have there.

Johndoh

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2018, 03:54:25 PM »
Sorry Glort FFS also means fat finger syndrome it was 217v
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glort

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2018, 01:23:34 AM »

Didn't pay enough attention. Forgot you were 230, though it was from 120. Makes no difference really.

If it's running 220 ( 225 was it?) unloaded, then I still would say it had some reserve.  You will always get voltage drop under load, even on mains power.
Still within tolerance so good result.

Johndoh

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2018, 09:59:52 PM »

You could try it that way Paul. If you used the standard air box, I would try to have it on a flange to a much larger diameter pipe that will act like a Plenum and reduce the gas speed which will help quiet the intake noise.  You can also add a new muffler to the intake and stick the air box on the end of that.
Myself, I'd be looking for a larger car intake from a wreckers. They have a large airbox, a filter size you will never need to replace and often a lot of baffling to cut the noise down. Going oversize will always make a significant reduction in racket.

Is the machine housed in a shed?  If so, you could look at Building a box around the thing with a baffled intake and output for the cooling air and possibly direct the intake and exhaust to the far side of the building from the house. If you enclose the machine it a good idea to bring cold air in from outside the enclosure otherwise you are basically generating a heat loop by sucking hot air in and through the machine which will make it run hotter.

If it has electric start, you could also get a radio switch off fleabay and wire the thing up so you ( or the mrs) could just press a button and off the thing would go.

There isnt much room to attach anything to Glort, I have attached a photo of a yanmar air filter housing. If I remove the stock filter I could extend from the round inlet? I have a length of hose it was used to connect to a vacuum for woodworking tools but its serrated, would it make any difference?

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glort

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2018, 10:54:56 PM »

This looks Different ( and a lot better!) than anything I have on my similar machines.
I would see how much noise is actually coming from this one before I did anything.  The way I do it is to take some rag and bundle it up then hold it over the inlet while the engine is running. It will draw through the rag and will only take a couple of seconds to hear if the thing gets quieter or not.

If here is a significant difference, There is something to be gained. If the difference is nil or close to it, doing bother.

Won't hurt to try the vac hose but make sure it's washed out from dust first.  I think I'd leave the OEM filter in there and just get something like a pod filter for the end of the hose. Can't have air too clean.
My 4WD has a twin filter system. That and 14L of engine oil in a 4L motor is why the engines in them are said to last forever.

I'll take the airbox off one of my engines of this type today and  have a look at the mounting on the engine to see what I can come up with.  I have never bothered trying to quieten the intake on these engines as the rest of them are so damn noisy anyway. I have blocked the exhaust and intake with them running and the mechanical clatter was still a racket to behold. The exhaust is pretty good actually.  Just duct that outside with a piece of pipe or flex tube and you'll be fine.

Is the genny near enough the house to need to be quietened?

Johndoh

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2018, 11:54:48 PM »
Hi Glort Genny is in the shed so it not too annoying to me anyway. I called with a mate today and he has a Lister Petter AC1 or AD1 I'm not sure which for 100 it needs fettled but its electric start and it has a sludge pump attached. I have no clear idea what a sludge pump is for but I reckon the engine is worth a punt. The guy with the Robin is impossible to get a straight answer from.
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

glort

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2018, 03:21:23 AM »

Sounds promising.  An AC1 would be perfect for driving a car alt to run an inverter from a battery.  Might be a bit underpowered for a  Gen head but would be a solid engine that would last forever.

You are going to end up like me, engines sitting round everywhere! Careful, it's a chronic and very hard to shake habit.
I have made some lowball offers on a few engine of late and satisfied when the sellers told me to Shove my off up my fundamental orifice.
Now the buggers are ALL getting back to me saying  " we haven't had any other interest, if you want it come get it.".
I feel a buying spree coming on.  A running 3 Cyl Kubota inline watercooled is a very hard thing to pass up for $200. I have been strong but my resolve is taking a beating.

I know what you mean with the sellers. It's always the biggest hurdle.  I am trying to buy a powered garden edger for the last few weeks. Negotiating the deal for less than half asking price was easy, Finding a time when these people are home has proved aggravating.  No, I am not going to drive across the city in peak hour traffic to get it. If you are never home weekends and can't leave the thing with a neighbour, I guess well just have to look for more suitable arrangements to out needs.....

Must not have had much interest, Now I get a message if I can make a time to collect they will be sure to be here when suits me.
Might end up owning it yet.

When you can't get straight answers and people are too quick to sell or start chasing you right off the bat, just pass. Don't let curiosity  get the better of you or fear set in you might be missing a good deal, Never happens. You only ever get your time wasted or screwed over.
The trick to buying used stuff is not finding a good deal, it's knowing when not to bother and waste your time and effort!

Johndoh

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2018, 08:27:52 AM »
I think I will get the little LP engine I have had an AD1 before not on a generator it had been on a concrete poker, i think it was direct injection too. It has a bell housing on the flywheel side so it could possibly be connected to an alternator directly? There appears to be a market for pumps too so the engine might come for free with a little bit of reselling.

The guy with the Robin is really vague about whether it makes power or why its not running correctly on the new carburettor. It also appears that he has a few machines for sale so he's not a greenhorn. Still the desire to buy stuff I don't need to do a job I have got well covered (generate power) is strong. I'm turning into a sole version of the "not for sale" brothers, 2 local guys that buy stuff and just keep it.  The wife seems to approve too she would be pleased to have me spend the winter in the shed so she can watch crap TV!
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

glort

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2018, 03:14:08 PM »
It has a bell housing on the flywheel side so it could possibly be connected to an alternator directly?

The only  types of couplings for generators I have seen  in that power range are the direct Type which are a tapered shaft on the engine usually with a long bolt running through the gen head into a tapped thread in the engine crankshaft, Pulleys and belts and a flanged spigot?stub shaft bolted to the flywheel with a belt of shaft drive.  Not familliar with anything running direct off the flywheel but there are lot of people far more experienced with these things than i am here.  just hard to imagine on a little engine.  I big multi litre, multi cylinder, multi ton engine more likley.



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The guy with the Robin is really vague about whether it makes power or why its not running correctly on the new carburettor. It also appears that he has a few machines for sale so he's not a greenhorn.

Sounds like the old " Untested" disclaimer of flea bay.  Umm, you only have to plug the bastard in to test it, why would you not do that so you can describe it as working and make more money unless you actually know it's stuffed and are covering your arse?

If he put a new carb on it and the things not right, there is a reason. A reason he well knows and a reason that costs too much to fix to be worth while.

Could be a whole bunch of things but they all stand a great chance of being too expensive to be worth fixing.

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Still the desire to buy stuff I don't need to do a job I have got well covered (generate power) is strong.

 Do not resist the Force young Paul! Resistance is Futile! You will come across bargains you can't pass up sooner or later so may as well concede to the forces you cannot control and be happy!

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I'm turning into a sole version of the "not for sale" brothers, 2 local guys that buy stuff and just keep it. 

I developed buying used solar panels into an art form.  Seemed a waste to ignore one of the very few talents I have so I just keep buying the things.
I DO sell them however and have been making a tidy profit as well.  Getting all my arrays changed over to 250's as standard and pulling off the older 190's to replace and sell. Usualy for more than I paid for the 250's .  I love it.

Mrs doesn't even complain about me buying them any more. just says " How much you think you will make on those? "
it's like when you get the ball rolling, you just don't want to stop when you know you can flog them and make money.

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The wife seems to approve too she would be pleased to have me spend the winter in the shed so she can watch crap TV!

Oh dear! You married one of those too. ?

My wife is a good woman, put up with me all these years and hasn't run off with a decent bloke yet.  Well if she has she was kind enough not to let me know about it and it wasn't for too long thats for sure cause she never is apart from me for more than one night.

The thing that in all honesty really worries me about her.... her addiction to moronic TV shows. One in particular.... must have been watching it 30 years now.  I'd like to say same old crap but it's not. it's at a level of stupid now that is aggravating to the extreme!
How she watches this makes me sincerely worry about the woman's intellect.

She says " come and sit down and watch it together with me. "

I tell her, I rather be Neutered by a Drunken Wombat with a rusty Stanley knife that watch that terrible rubbish.

She will then cause me further concern for the operation of her faculties by insisting " It isn't that bad".
Trust me my love, by comparison, it's the drunken Wombat with the rusty Stanley knife  which is the one that isn't that bad.   :embarassed:

Johndoh

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Re: More generator questions
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2018, 04:01:17 PM »
There's a lot of soap operas on television here local, UK even Oz and US ones all dreadful. I like to watch history, CNN, old men in sheds etc but those type of programs are regarded as dull. Still regular cooked meals and a clean ironed shirt for church are good things to have!
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness