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Author Topic: feed in tariff  (Read 317 times)

vegoil

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feed in tariff
« on: October 20, 2018, 11:22:36 AM »
Is there anyone in the UK that is getting feed in tariff for using WVO or know if its available?
just an idea for someone!

John

glort

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2018, 12:19:19 PM »

Don't know about the UK but I do know it was tried here in oz and abandoned.
The amount of red tape and cost of industrial level control equipment they wanted as well as limiting the amount of feed in made the idea completely non viable.

Really it's not a profitable or worthwhile exercise anyway.  For the amount of money you would need for  a genny and maintence, free fuel still does not make it a venture you could get any sort of return on investment. From what I have seen, that's true the world over.

vegoil

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2018, 02:27:04 PM »
I am sure you are rite (I was just thinking out loud)

John

saba

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2018, 11:49:10 PM »
I  don't know about the UK, but here in Holland I have solar panels so they expect me to feed back. I have a 3 fase MOTOR hooked up to the lister and it feeds back with minimum losses. And itīs save if the grid is gone the field is gone so no power.
Until now you can feed back what you use and get the full price deduction from your bill if you feed back more... itīs just pennys.
I even use the motor to start the lister.

Never understood why they were rectifieing and than feed it to a solar/wind sunnyboy/windy boy so much losses.

Greetings Bernhard

glort

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2018, 12:05:15 AM »

Never understood why they were rectifieing and than feed it to a solar/wind sunnyboy/windy boy so much losses.


When Rectifying AC to DC you get a substantial Voltage increase.  As GTI'S are now and have been for some time more than 95% efficient, the losses are very small.

Not sure that you can do a C2C setup on a 3 phase motor and back feed if you only have single phase connected. By rectifying and putting into a GTI you can use all the motors power not just 1 or 2 windings. Many homes do not have 3 phase connected. 

saba

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2018, 01:21:48 AM »
Hey glort, around here all the houses have in principle 3 fase, If you have one fase you just use one fase the nabours the other etc. Nowadays all new houses have standart three fase.
And I have seen a video of a guy feeding back with a three fase motor succesfully but I don't think it lasted very long.
If you have three fases it's the cheapest and easiest way to feed back.

gr bernhard

glort

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2018, 03:54:27 AM »
Yeah direct is definately the simplest and easiest.

3 phase is definitely rare round here.  Homes all used to be single phase then they went through a period around 20 years ago where they were putting 3 phase on a lot of new homes because of ducted air and electric stoves and ovens. Generally homes are wired for 60A here so if you had on the stove, the oven, the air and say a pool pump you were at or over the limit and that's not even if the electric water heater kicks in. 

Now they tend to be only doing single phase but taking the connection up to 80A.  it's mainly cost. They build homes as cheap and flimsy as they can get away with these days.  You can get 3 phase put on, not too bad when you are building but at least several thousand if you want it retro fitted as often they have to tap from the poles and then re wire the circuit board and possible the house for 3 phase appliances and outlets.

broncodriver99

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2018, 03:32:02 PM »
Now they tend to be only doing single phase but taking the connection up to 80A.  it's mainly cost. They build homes as cheap and flimsy as they can get away with these days.

80A? That's not much. I think in some parts of the US 100A may still be standard, but around here 200A in the minimum for new construction and retrofit. They are building some larger houses with 400A. I can't imagine what the heck they need that much current for.

We have the same deal with single/split phase being standard.

saba

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2018, 05:59:32 PM »
I think the different in amps is hidden in the voltage australia 220/240 and us 110. So you need half the amps to get the same power.

broncodriver99

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2018, 06:39:44 PM »
I think the different in amps is hidden in the voltage australia 220/240 and us 110. So you need half the amps to get the same power.

Maybe, I am not familiar with the electrical supply standards outside of the US other than 50 vs 60 Hz. What is the leg to leg voltage of the incoming service?

We use split phase for residential. The service is 240V L to L but we use a Neutral to get the 120V. Larger appliances/loads all use 240V. It is only the smaller items that use the 120V which is one leg of the 240 to Neutral.

Our 3 phase is a different story. We have a few different flavors(voltages) depending on light commercial, heavy commercial, industrial, etc. 

BruceM

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2018, 07:08:56 PM »
More important for health is the grounding practice and whether transformer isolation and single point grounding per transformer winding is violated, making the earth/aquifer a conductor.  Much of the world is using the techical  abomination of Wye multipoint grounding, with transformer isolation violated (by the "ground tie").  This causes ELF magnetic fields to be 100x higher than necessary.  In areas with Delta power and transformer per home, even homes with modest street setbacks and power on poles on the street have background ELF magnetic fields below 0.002 milligaus.  It is not uncommon to see home lots above 1 milligaus in Wye served areas. (Solely from neutral current through the earth, with power to the home off.) 

Much of world violates basic good engineering practice in the grounding of their power system.  Saving a few bucks by allowing the power co. to use the home grounding electrode prompted this move in the US in the 1930's, according to Zipse.  According to Zipse, when quizzed, 85% of EE's don't believe that the existing system is possible, since it's such an abortion.  I certainly didn't, until seeing a huge magnetic field and measuring 0.1 amps of current flowing to my to-code-grounded well pump, with main power off!








glort

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2018, 01:21:17 AM »
I think the different in amps is hidden in the voltage australia 220/240 and us 110. So you need half the amps to get the same power.

Maybe, I am not familiar with the electrical supply standards outside of the US other than 50 vs 60 Hz. What is the leg to leg voltage of the incoming service?

In Oz, The nominal phase to neutral voltage is 240v and nominal phase to phase voltage is 415v. I'm working on the stove atm that has 2 phase.  2 live incoming phases to get the voltage up and the current down. Pretty common setup here.  Seems the switch for a hotplate has gone kaput. Feels OK but not putting through any power.

We have a few variations in 3 phase as well as single.  When I worked with photo minilabs they power supply was nearly always 40 or 80A SINGLE phase as they were often in shops and other premises where it was a lot easier and cheaper to put in a high power single phase than run in 3 phase. High current single phase is also popular in commercial kitchens and with catering equipment. Anything such as motors and heating in proper industrial applications tends to be 3 phase 415.


Here our standard single phase power is 230V. A minimum circuit would be for lighting and would be rated at 10A.  A power outlet is on a minimum circuit of 15A ( 3600W) but a standard outlet in the house is rated at 10A ( 2300W).  High power outlets are also available which do 15A but are supposed to be on a 20A Circuit. The only difference between a 10A outlet and a 15 is a larger earth pin on the 15 so a 15A applicance can't be plugged into a 10A circuit.
Everyone just changes the plug or files the earth pin down and plug into a 10 A outlet that way.

A 60A Circuit here would give better than 14 KW. Better output really because at least in surburbia now, most places are still getting closer to 240 and even 250V  rather than 230 . 251v is the upper spec limit and the power co's being lazy don't change the transformer taps unless there is a complaint and they install a monitor which show high voltage at the point of use ( ie, at the board of the home) over a 24Hr period.

The high voltage is a problem as I regularly experience with solar power where the line voltage gets above the safety cut out programed into the inverters causing them to ramp down the output of disconnect all together.  Have a high voltage line to begin with and then a bunch of people in the street back feeding on a sunny day and the line voltage hits 260 easily.  It's rare to see the voltage down to 230 here even in the middle of the night and during the day it's always a min of 245 even when it's completely overcast.

My house here has 3 Phase and 80A feed in so I have a total draw capacity of 60,000W in total.
That would be about $18 an hour if I could suck all that down.
Much happier feeding 10 Kw back in as I can often do. ;0)

broncodriver99

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Re: feed in tariff
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2018, 01:59:19 AM »
We have the same issue with the supplied voltage being high. I usually see 125-127V on the 120 line and 246-248 on 240 line.

My house here has 3 Phase and 80A feed in so I have a total draw capacity of 60,000W in total.
That would be about $18 an hour if I could suck all that down.

Got it, that 3rd leg is what makes the difference. A standard 200A single phase service here is 48,000W. At least if I use all 48,000W it only costs $5.76 an hour.  :P  :laugh:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 02:03:50 AM by broncodriver99 »