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Author Topic: Are there...  (Read 676 times)

ajaffa1

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2018, 09:23:42 AM »
Glad to here the novel is underway, there are a lot of us looking forward to it.
 
Behind my house I have two 25000 Ltr water tanks I am thinking of building the engine shed behind them. That should help to reduce the noise and vibration. If I am smart about it, it could also double up as glass house for my wife`s collection of succulents, with the engine providing warmth in winter. Situating the engine shed behind the water tanks has one other advantage, the hot water storage cylinder is only a couple of meters away.

I have no intentions to try and harvest the exhaust heat but I have considered using it to increase the temperature of the oil in the sump. This would help to evaporate off the water that condenses in the crankcase, especially during short runs.

Still got a way to go before first smoke. Cylinder head need rebuilding and I ordered the parts last night. I`m still in two minds about the worn cylinder, sleeve the old one or buy a replacement Indian one for $200. I emailed Stephen at Ozlisteroids to find out if one of the JKSON wet sleeved cylinders would fit an original Lister. I haven`t had a reply yet but think that a wet sleeve would make servicing and ring replacement etc easier.

Bob


glort

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2018, 01:39:57 PM »

A limited amount of exhaust fed into the greenhouse could be highly beneficial Bob. Commercial greenhouses often double the amount of CO2 in the enclosures to make the plants grow faster.

If the engine was in the greenhouse, perhaps some worthwhile heat from the exhaust could be derived just from a long exhaust pipe which would provide good surface area for the heat to transfer.  You could run it in the ground a shallow distance and sit pots on top or have it elevated under racks to provide warmth by convection.  My guess is in winter even a small temp rise would be worthwhile and help production.
Another benefit to having the engine in the greenhouse would be the heat from the alternator a well.  I wouldn't expect that to be a lot but still it would be a benefit and increase your over all efficiency.

There is a guy from the US that lives in one of those hell hole frozen places that I helped build an oil burner to heat his commercial greenhouse.
He had an enormous LPG tank he used to have refilled several times a winter and cost thousands to provide heat so his plants didn't keel over.
He replaced the gas burner in his heater with an oil burner and saved thousands on his heating costs.  His brother ran a truck service center so he has all the oil he needs.  Gets it summer and winter so can run his greenhouse warmer than he could afford before and as well as saving money on the gas, he has an increased production now.

Was simple to replace the burner in the heater which also makes hot water to go to other seed hatchery's or whatever they are called and heats an office and packing area.

If you need more heat in the greenhouse than what the engine can provide, I can tell you how to build an oil burner to have the thing a cosy 40 oC all year round if you want!  :0)

BruceM

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2018, 07:27:19 PM »
I've recently read a couple articles where vegetable nutrition is shown to be reduced with increased CO2- faster growth.   I suspect the same basic situation is the cause of some poor results for some hydroponic vege minerals and vitamins.

 It seems that plants that grow slower take up more minerals and are healthier for us.  Some hydroponic growers do take this into consideration and will back off on nutrients and water intentionally to raise plant Brix levels, which is easily measured.

In a sane world, this would be a focus of much and very well funded research.







mikenash

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2018, 08:27:08 PM »
Case in point:

Hydroponic tomatoes which are kinda red, vaguely tomato-ey and - much more important - consistent in flavour texture and availability all year round for the restaurant trade

But if you cut some slices of a fresh Beefsteak tomato grown in a sunny backyard in compost-rich soil it's kind of like an uber-tomato explosion, flavourwise

Tech is doing a wonderful job of "feeding the world" but it's doing nothing for flavour, nutrition or, probably, health.

Certainly, IMHO, the words "food" and "roundup-ready" shouldn't be used in the same sentence

ajaffa1

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2018, 11:48:33 PM »
Not sure my Wife would be happy with me filling her green house with diesel/WVO fumes. I`m not sure how much soot a CS produces but it`s probably unhealthy. When I was working on computers in central London, we had a spate of processor failures. It was traced back to cooling fans failing because they were clogged up with black soot. The soot was coming from the bus station/depot across the street. Very glad I don`t work or live there anymore.

I only have to worry about heating for a couple of months a year, the rest of the year we are trying to keep cool. Wonder if anyone has ever built an air conditioner that runs by burning WVO?

Bob

glort

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2018, 11:49:42 PM »
It seems that plants that grow slower take up more minerals and are healthier for us.

I think this would depend on how they were grown and probably applies to conventional methods. I know with the aeroponics setup I favor the growth and the nutrition is  enhanced. You are giving the plant the best environment over all.
I would think in most greenhouses that use extra CO2, they also work on the minimal nutrition the plant needs rather than a full spectrum of available minerals etc.  Spose to really know you'd have to compare growing methods. that said, from what I have seen, it's not usual to use co2 enhancement with aeroponics.

I was watching some Vids last night where a guy in ireland was testing the difference in Potato yields growing them in the ground and in pots. In the ground because of the size area and leching of the water ect he could only put so much compost and fertilizer to go round. In the pots that was a much more contained and limited amount and therefor more concentrated.  The yeild from the pots was over double from what he got in the ground.... 2 years running.

Was funny yo read the comments from people claiming it was an unfair test because he used dirt in the garden and compost in the pots.  the point was it would not be practical to put that much compost as needed in the ground but it is with pots being a far more limited amount and the yeild is double.
For whatever reason people wanted to defend growing in the ground like they were insulted it was not the winner of the test.

I have experienced the exact same thing myself with tomatoes.  grown in small 25L drums with the lids cut off I can put in loads of fertiliser and compost material and it's easy to keep the water up to them in hot weather. Pots can be put more easily in ideal locations, control of weeds and pests is easier and it's just easier to give them more attention.  Sitting them on the back verandah makes them decorative as well. Looks great having all this fresh fruit at your back door when they are loaded and to me much better than a fern or other ornamental but otherwise useless plant.



« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 12:04:52 AM by glort »

glort

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2018, 12:31:04 AM »

 Wonder if anyone has ever built an air conditioner that runs by burning WVO?


I was in the process of doing one before I moved house. I can't find anyone with an engine driven AC on YT though. Thought somone would have dne it by now.

I Just took all the components from a car AC which have about the same power as a medium size domestic Split AC and was going to run that off a veg fueled Diesel engine instead of the car engine. I asked AC mate about belt driven Compressors and seems the only thing that works that way Now is stuff too big for your home and would weight a half ton literally.

Not a lot to doing it with a car AC actually. Just rebuild the car AC system and I was going to gas it up with LPG which works great. Have that in my Truck AC and it will freeze you on a hot day.

I suppose in fact you could just install a domestic Split unit and if that was being powered by your lister genny running on veg, that would be in fact the achievement of the goal you are after. It would be efficient too as they do get more heating/ cooling power than the input energy as they use the energy in the air to enhance the process.  In winter using the exhaust heat from the engine through the coils  would greatly increase the efficiency and output.
Soot wouldn't matter, give the thing a hose every so often like you are supposed to do anyway but few ever do.

I'm going to rig up the water spray on my condenser unit soon. I use  micro mist sprinkler jets to create a spray that the fan pulls through and cools the intake air by evaporation.  Makes a HUGE difference on the real hot days.  Takes the efficiency curve from outside it's operating zone to a comfortable area within it and makes the thing go from struggling to do anything  to being very effective.

Uses bugger all water and the trade off in energy is well worth it.  There is a down pipe from the roof near the Condenser unit so I can put a tank there as I was going to anyway and use that for the water. Will last a long time even if there is no rain.

I was looking for another AC unit from a car last week but everything still had the dash in and I was too lazy and occupied doing other things to pull another one out. It's a pain in the arse job and I had the ute loaded with logs for a water feature I'm building in the front garden for the Mrs and a bunch of other treasure for different things.

I have finally trained the Mrs and daughter with the AC here.  Got up this morning and the place is cold again thanks to a 2 oC night.  Inside is 15 so I put on the air and immediately got a lecture to put another jumper on and they didn't use the AC at all while I was away.  I know that's a lie because I can see how much power was used but then again, they were probably running the dryer at night or using the fan heaters I have to throw away.

Still, the idea to go sparingly is a good one. Not so long ago they would have had the heat on and the back door open and setting the temp at 30. Guess my naggin....errrr, educating them has paid off.
 I know I have about 100 Kwh of power up my sleeve atm thanks to the sunny days giving me 50-60 KWH a day this last week so I can burn some off, be comfortable, happy and still not worry about the cost!

BruceM

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2018, 03:15:53 AM »
I agree, MikeNash, 4x more Roundup in the crop is hardly a step in the right direction. People are easily propagandized; Rodale proved decades ago that chemical free farming had about the same (slightly better) crop loss to bugs, etc, (20%) as full press Monsanto frankenfood dripping with all sorts of chemicals and pesticides. They had much higher yields in drought, because of the increased organic matter in the soil.  The "big improvement" with a new product introduction (pesticide) only last a couple years, then bug/disease resistance kicks in.

The Brix measurement (plant sugars) is a pretty good objective measurement of vegetable "wow" flavor.  Making plants grow fast don't boost Brix, nor does CO2 addition. Very fast growth is usually associated with tasteless, low Brix veges.  The better hydroponics growers manage Brix, which reduces yield.  It is NOT just a matter of mega- nutrients.





mikenash

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2018, 09:25:10 AM »
Fascinating.

Rodales "How to grow Vegetables & Fruits by the Organic Method"  (all four-inches thick of it and with a Glort-length word count)  - the 1968 edition printed before chemicals were really in use anyway - was the bible in my household for a couple of decades when we had kids at home, grew our own veges, ran fruit trees and waged war on opossums, had chickens etc etc

We were lucky enough to have an inexhaustible supply of almost-free barley straw so had big, permanently-mulched, no-dig gardens and big batch-load compost heaps that were built inside big boxes made of straw bales, got so hot they would smoulder sometimes, and produced the best, black, crumbly compost . . .

When I'm a REALLY old fart and am retired I hope to do that again as I am lucky enough to own an acre of prime growing dirt . . . just need to live long enough

Our kids grew up really healthy, too - running around in the country & eating home-grown stuff & living without a television

BruceM

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2018, 05:09:51 PM »
Your kids were very lucky, Mike.  I grew up on hamburger helper, Tang, hanging Shell No Pest Strips (DDT) in the bedroom and our summer drinking/cooking water stored in rinsed out, new 2 gallon Xray film developer concentrate bottles, despite the red skull and crossbones on the bottles.  MD's can be amazingly ignorant. Didn't work out well for family health.

My climate here is a so dry, short season and harsh that there is no commercial farming (which is good for me). I had a nice garden with big cold frames and after a few successful years of the soap and oil spray bug and powdery mildew wars, I got hailed out 3 years in a row and quit.  I'd like to do a greenhouse but my health has been too poor for a such a big project.  Year round greenhouse growing here requires evaporative cooling from June through August and my thoughts were to incorporate tall tower with wind scoop inlet, evaporative chilling just below, and 3 x 6 foot air path.









glort

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2018, 11:45:31 PM »
and our summer drinking/cooking water stored in rinsed out, new 2 gallon Xray film developer concentrate bottles,

Do you mean this literally?   :o  :o  :o

No real difference between  B&W Film and Xray Developer, Same thing used for both but they had some Chemicals in them you would not think of consuming.
Apart from that, They would be hard if not impossible to wash off from a bottle completely due to the way they would crystalise then take a lot to re dissolve them once dried.  Even a spot of them in a bottle neck or under a lid would contaminate a bottle really well.

I can't imagine how anyone would think to use those bottles for drinking water. Just the smell of the stuff would tell you it was toxic and the last thing you would want to do is drink from anything that had come near it. I take it you are referring to the old Brown glass bottles? May have at least been better than the later plastic ones but Geez!

Might be someone out there now storing drinking water in empty Round up drums.....   :embarassed:

I planted out some Beefsteak and Roma Tomatoes yesterday in pots and put them in a semi shaded area near the back verandah. I think the summer sun is too strong here for them in the open. I like and have had good success with pots anyway.  When I came here I had several plants that were over 2 years old.  Last winters frost wiped them out which was disappointing.

I have also got over 50 Sunflower seedlings coming along nicely.  I grew a few last year and they looked great. As a friend said, they look like happy plants and I can do with lots of happy around the place.  I want to plant them all along the driveway which I think will look great.
Also put in some corn but they have failed to come up. I remember the same thing happening last year.  I had to resort to the old school thing of wet paper towel to get them up. Once I got them a few inches High I had no trouble from them on.... except with the birds .

Think I'll do some more lettuce and greens and get the aeroponic drum going again as well.
Been thinking I don't need a greenhouse, Just a regular pre-fab Shed will do. I can Cover the thing with solar panels and put LED lights inside. Long as I can control the heat and water it will be fine.

BruceM

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2018, 02:23:48 AM »
Not glass, 2 gallon plastic (HDPE) jugs. Apparently, medical schools are a weak on practical toxicology. Solvents (and other compounds) leak into the plastic, then leach out. My Dad apologized a couple years before his death by ALS, after a lifetime of osteoarthritis so bad he only had movement left in three neck vertebra; his entire spine had fused.  He said he thought plastic was inert. He still didn't realize the full extent what he had done to himself and his family.






mike90045

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2018, 03:06:41 AM »
Not glass, 2 gallon plastic (HDPE) jugs. Apparently, medical schools are a weak on practical toxicology. Solvents (and other compounds) leak into the plastic, then leach out. My Dad apologized a couple years before his death by ALS, after a lifetime of osteoarthritis so bad he only had movement left in three neck vertebra; his entire spine had fused.  He said he thought plastic was inert. He still didn't realize the full extent what he had done to himself and his family.

OMG !! wow, glass is tough enough to rinse, but plastic - impossible

glort

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2018, 09:57:34 AM »
Finally found this thread.

The Novel of using veg oil is here:

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=8380.0