Author Topic: Are there...  (Read 677 times)

fraggie

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Are there...
« on: September 18, 2018, 03:16:02 PM »
Any modified injectors available for lister/petter engines? I own a lister lt1
i found a german site that has vegetable oil injectors for vw and mercedes,
it made me wonder if there are any for single or 2 cilinder stationairy engines..
would make running a direct injection on WVO a lot easier..
website is http://www.monopoel.de/catalog/kca17s42-plus-dn0sd297-p-1120.html
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 03:25:25 PM by fraggie »

glort

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2018, 11:44:30 PM »

I have run veg oil in vehicles and engines for 15 years. I have never seen a problem with an engine with a mechanical injector pump Running clean, Dry Veg oil.  And that is the key right there, Clean and Dry.

If you look at those kits and components for running veg there is a Hidden catch...... they recommend and only guarantee performance when running NEW or extremely lightly used oil.  When it comes to the normal level of used oil most people get which is where it is no longer suitable for cooking food, all bets are off.

Some of these injectors boast Hight Crack off pressures. That is a misnomer to think this will spray better. The pressures are so high already they are adding a few percent if that to crack point and it's the Nozzle that makes the difference not the crack pressure above what it already was  meant to be.
I have reservations if these Nozzles are in fact any different otherwise. These people sellinging them I don't think are getting specially drilled nozzles as that is a major manufacturing setup and expense and I could not see demand justifying the machinery let alone the R&D that would be required for each Nozzle.

There was a guy came here years ago from a company that did veg Kits and I could see very little different to the setup than what people normally did with conversions. The whole thing with the " Jump in, turn the key and drive off on veg oil" was the fact that one was supposed to use new oil. That is chalk and cheese to running most USED oil.  If Veg is very cheap where you are and you don't mind paying less over diesel then you'll definately have no problems with a stock standard setup operating as it should ( ie, not worn out or dirty). If you want to run used oil, then I would say these " Modified" components offer no benifit over the stock ones.  Again more is going to depend on how well you clean and dry the fuel than anything else.

Most people do not dry the oil thinking that as long as there is not water in the bottom it's good. It's NOT.
Veg oil is hygroscopic and can hold a LOT of water in suspension. While Pouring gallons of water into your Diesel veg fueled engine has a lot of benefits, it's one thing to put it in the intake and another to put it through the fuel system.  Undried oil gives significantly less easy starting and much lower performance than oil that has had the dissolved water removed. It is also important to have dry oil when running it through your Injector pump, injector and fuel system overall.

IMHO. you would be better off just making sure your pump and injector was where they should be and using new, standard components than what would be mis spent money on these other components and making sure your fuel is Filtered to at least 5Um and dried sufficiently to exceed passing a Hot pan test.  By this I mean you should have your oil dry enough so you can mix 2-3 Drops of water in a cupful and it will still pass a hot pan.

Does not matter how you put it in the engine, if the fuel is substandard, all other performance factors will be as well.

old seagull man

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 07:14:46 AM »
Mr Glort :Sir.

Would you consider writing a short Primer, on the basic,s of using WVO, and other waist Oils , WMO perhaps, if this is in your area of expertise.?
 Me like many new to this board and the whole Lister, and Clone, world are over run with misinformation, and dis information. On this subject.
And a real guide to what can be done. as opposed to what "people" say can be done would help many.

If my zs195 cold run on wvo, or wmo, generating power for fun would at least be economically "free".

Andrew

glort

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 08:30:33 AM »

Andrew, Nothing I write is ever short!  :0)

There certainly is a LOT of misinformation out there no question.  As i have said many ti9mes, it's because people copy one another rather than do their own testing.  It seems everyone is so terrified of making a mistake and Ruining their engine that they don't even think what they are doing through.

I'd be happy to write something for you and others whom may be interested in this but could you give me a few pointers as to any specifics you want to know?  I have been doing this so long it just seems second nature to me and I know it's easy to overlook the most basic things that are not easy to find when you are starting out.

It's really a fairly extensive subject. It's easy to say do or don't do this but as soon as you start to explain why so people understand WHY they should or should not do it, Things do get a bit more lengthy.
I did have a lot of stuff written out years ago but that has long been lost many HDD crashes ago.
None the less, if people are interested, I'll give it my best shot at information and brevity.

EdDee

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 08:51:51 AM »
+1
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

ajaffa1

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 09:24:24 AM »
Hey Glort, make it as long winded and detailed as you like, there are still some of us that want to learn.  :)

Sadly not everything I want to know is on Google, the real knowledge and experience is stored in people heads, a great deal of it in the heads of people who are not good communicators. You may be the exception, please feel free to enlighten us.

Bob

dieselspanner

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 10:18:52 AM »
Glort,

Start a whole new thread and we'll ask Ade nicely if it can go on the WOK.

Cheers
Stef

Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

ajaffa1

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 11:44:54 AM »
Got to agree with Stef, bring it on!  :laugh: Maybe your next calling is to publish a book about how to avoid paying the government and big corporations for what you can have for nothing, should p1ss off those wealthy, entitled b*stards enormously.

Bob

ajaffa1

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2018, 12:22:47 PM »
Just a thought Glort,( I`m a poet and I didn`t know it) my CS should be completed in about a month, the shed for it may take a little longer. It will be available for testing after that. If you would like to make recommendations, I am happy to implement them and post the results with pics.

Bob

old seagull man

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2018, 12:38:48 PM »
My ZS 195 is running and awaiting its generator. And i'd be willing to feed  it some fryer oil.

ajaffa1

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2018, 01:01:31 PM »
Good on you OSM, lets hope Glort comes through with the manual on how to do it. I`ve got to be a little diplomatic because I`m fairly sure he has my phone number and will call me to tell me what a nasty, manipulative C U Next Tuesday I am. That said we need his input and experience so bring it on!


Bob

glort

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2018, 01:52:42 PM »
I have started on my novel but a thought came to mind.

Would you all be interested in an overall veg tutorial with information on running vehicles on veg or just limit my rantings to Stationary/ industrial engines?
For the literaly challenged, excluding vehicles will shorten it a fair bit but might be motivational and sure will add a better understanding of the processes involved in the full version.


Bob I really want to get up your way before Christmas to see my Aunt and Uncle at Casino.  Been a while since I have seen them although I have been at the Goldie several times this year but flew rather than drove.  I'm not shooting on the coast this year, they want me to do the NZ gig instead as they can't find anyone in the whole damn country that can do what we do but I would have much preferred to do the Goldie event.  I like it there. For all it's said to be, I feel relaxed, comfortable and at home.  Best place to be in my line of work as well. Mrs will never move there so will be a longing unfulfilled.
Might do a promotion before I leave and just spend a few days there in a nice hotel and do some shoots to pay for spoiling the mrs a bit. Still have a couple of people that want to shoot with me that I couldn't fit in last time so that may be a good move.

In any event, I'd love to drop in and bore..... errr, visit you on the way up or back.  Be really great to see your engine and finally meet you in person as well.

The thing you'll find when you do feed your engine veg oil will be that it is terribly boring.
The only difference you'll notice is the aroma.  It won't run any different, sound any different or anything else, just run the same way as it does any other time. That's the thing that gets people. They are waiting for something to happen and it doesn't.  It's a big let down for some whom seem to be waiting for their engines to explode or just die!  :laugh:

Probably the most significant thing to occur is your pocket stays heavier with the money you save.  I drive 3000Km from Sydney to Brisvegas, run round everywhere there and between and come back home and my total fuel spend is Zero, sometimes $20 if I buy some ULP to blend in to make the old girl run a bit harder when I'm loaded and want to blow past the trucks and morons doing 15 under the limit as fast as possible.  On my old tank, that's a saving of about $500 in fuel with the economy it ( doesen't) get.
 Of course the organisation I work for still pays me travel money well over that so it makes for a well paid working holiday.

If you are thinking of running oil, start finding your sources and salting it away now so it has a chance to settle and will be less effort to filter and dry. You might also like to think about a processor like the one in my vids to filter and dry the oil. One batch would probably keep you going a month or more.
Also be worth about a $350 saving on diesel prices..... plus your power savings.

dieselspanner

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2018, 03:09:51 PM »
Put it all in!

There's bound to be lots of 'crossover' and it's all about 'dino' replacement.

It won't be like you're going 'off topic' 'cos the whole forum is one HUGE topic from members welfare to the higher end of diy electronics, in fact anything apart from religion, politics and out right piss taking seems to be fair game.

It's like meeting the lads down the pub for me, honest.

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

ajaffa1

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2018, 12:00:12 AM »
Hey Glort, I agree with Stef, lets have it all. Before my car accident my fuel bill for the ute was about ten percent of my weekly income. If I ever get back to driving I will be buying an old robust diesel four wheel drive that can run WVO.

I haven`t got round to sourcing waste oil yet, it`s tricky when you don`t drive. I have a mate who collects it for his pottery kiln I`ll have to tap him up for advice.

If you are coming up our way please come and see us.

I`ve viewed your processing videos and am planning to do something very similar. I have a source for 45 gallon steel drums and will start looking for the pump, filters and valves.

Still got to build the engine shed. I`d like to have it close to the house so I can harvest the heat generated for hot water, probably have to use a heat exchanger  to avoid contamination. I am worried the vibration will shake the house and drive the missus mad.

I`m off to my mates house today, I have an appointment with his lathe. Got a lot of CS parts that need repair/modification. I`ll take some photos and post them latter. I doubt my photographic skills match yours so bear with me.

Bob

glort

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Re: Are there...
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2018, 02:44:37 AM »

Well I have written a novel so far but I figure those that are interested will read it all to learn a lot and those that have attention deficit disorders will whinge anyway.

I can see the problem with not being able to get around. When I was teaching my son to drive we would go out for hours each week to get his practice hours up. We would go far and wide always with teh collection tank in the back of the truck.  Never got so much oil in my life as what I did that year. I was supplying mates and even they were saying no more, were full  and had more than they ever dreamed of.
Usually though you can get onto a couple of good suppliers and satisfy your greasy needs from just them. Even if they are a bit distant, as long as you get a worthwhile haul it's worth the bit of the drive especially when you are running free fuel.


As for the gen shed, I would think if the engine wasn't terribly Unbalanced it should be OK. I had my jackhammer mounted within 8 Ft of the house on the concrete slab of the driveway and that caused no vibration problems. If that thing didn't, nothing remotely balanced will.
I brought an old Tyre down from my fathers place which I am going to try as an engine mount for one of my smaller engines.  You may be able to make a good mount for yours with beams along 3-4 Tyres to spread the weight. 

Bolt the sides of the tyres to the concrete  or pegs hammered into the ground and screw/ bolt the runners for the engine to the other side.  I think this would work well for vibration damping but I would try a conventional mount first as I think it will be fine.

One thing I would see if I could source for an engine shed would be Cool room panel. It's often available very cheap from the things being removed and has excellent sound deadening properties.  You can cut the stuff with a circular saw to size and screw it together with the aluminum extrusion or just brackets and Glue.  Might have to go to Brissy or the coast to get it but I'm sure it would be available cheap or free.

I think the sound will be a bigger factor than Vibration and Cool room panel would be a great way to address that without having to line a garden shed or muck around with sound deadening solution's which could quickly add up in time and cost.

You can get 30 plate heat ex changers off fleabay pretty cheap now.  Small circulation pump and you would have a good base setup. I'd try and find another old hot water tank and use that as the cooling tank for the engine. This will keep the water hot even when the engine is not running and as heaters tend to have ports on each side, you could rig in a radiator and a fan for a heat dump when you had enough hot water but still wanted to run the engine. Lot of ways you can do this though.

Are you going to try and tap the heat from the exhaust as well? I have read conflicting reports of how much heat is available there. Just because something gets hot does not mean there is a lot of heat energy. As I tell people on my vids, A match will burn at 1200o C+ but that does not mean you can melt metal with it. OTOH, 33% of the energy in the fuel is supposed to be lost in the exhaust but again harvesting it is a different matter too.
I think Ed does well from his setup though.

Don't worry about the pics. they will be plenty good enough.
I KNOW your machining and fabrication skills would leave mine for dead and I would prefer that skill set than the one I have TBH.