Author Topic: Concerns About My First Real Test  (Read 907 times)

Listerational

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Concerns About My First Real Test
« on: September 11, 2018, 01:10:10 AM »
Hello Everyone,

Hope you all are well.

I installed a Powerline 10/1 about 6 years ago and I may finally have the opportunity to give it a real test.  I could not have gone this far without the help of the nice folks on this forum.

We may be getting hit by a hurricane here in NC and may be without power for several days. I have never run the generator longer than about an hour so I am a little hesitant to run it 24 / 7 especially during the times that I am not there to monitor it. My wife will be there.  I have never run more than a couple of baseboard heaters in order to exercise the generator and now I am going to run lights, computers, TV, fans, freezer, refrigerator, etc. I understand about managing load because I install generator transfer kits for a living. I am mostly worried about the generator getting hot, about it suddenly cutting off and damaging electronics, about it catching on fire (it is in my garage).
Should my biggest concern be the generator overheating? I believe that I measured 200+ degrees on the generator once. I have a huge liquid radiator mounted a little higher than the generator however I do not have a circulator.
Should I take steps to protect the electronics in the house? That would mean protecting most everything because about everything has a PC board in it.
I once damaged the board on our gaspack one freezing cold winter when I did not give the gas generator enough time to warm up. Once it warmed up the setting of the throttle was mismatched and the generator cut off. When that happened it damaged the gaspack.
The generator has a 7kw head, is there a way to estimate how many gallons of fuel it will consume? This way I can refill the tank before it runs out.

Thanks for letting me put my thoughts on paper. If you would not mind making a recommendation or two I would appreciate it.

Best regards,

Jim

mike90045

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2018, 05:47:43 AM »
For my battery recharging with 6/1, I have a runtime of 60-90 minutes, 2x a day.  That gets a 30 gal thermosiphon tank up to about 170F, at about a 2500w load on the alternator.

I do not let the listeroid engine run un-attended for more than a couple minutes.   

For longterm house power, I run a eu2000 with an extended run tank.

Do you have power monitoring gear, to see what your load is ?   What size is your alternator 5kw ? 7kw?

BruceM

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2018, 06:15:57 AM »
My Listeroid 6/1 is very remote so I added a custom monitoring and shut down system.  That said, the only time it's done an emergency shutdown in the last 3000 hrs is for low oil... I forget to check it and I have the low sensor set pretty high.

Assuming you did a decent job of setting it up I think you should give her a workout; you may even get it broken in properly.  A plugged in power monitor with frequency should be sufficient to keep from overload-  just see what the frequency drop is for the most load she handles easily with clean exhaust, and note the approximate watts.   Making a list of approximate watts for various loads for her would also be helpful for manual power management. With that and the frequency readout, she'll learn fast.






glort

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2018, 06:53:35 AM »

IMHO most people are far too pedantic and paranoid about a lot of things. These engines being a prime example.

I would not worry one bit. Never heard of a gen head catching fire although I'm sure one has and the experience has been repeated and exaggerated to cerate a belief in some they burn like firewood on every occasion possible.
Simply not true. Cars catch fire as well but it's one in a million literally so no one panics.

Why do you need to run your genny 24/7?  When you are in bed, only thing should need power is the fridge / freezer and they will stay cold over night very easily.
If there is something you need to run all the time, the power consumption will probably be low when you are not using anything else.

As for leaving a genny unattended, again I think that is paranoia more than anything.  If it will run fine when you are there, it will run fine when you are not. Thing is not like a class of children that go nuts soon as the teacher walks out the room.
IF you have concerns, take the basic precautions you should anyway. Make sure the area is clear, there is nothing to burn and don't worry.  Put a smoke alarm in the shed so if something does happen, that will alert you.  Wouldn't worry me though.

You mention a radiator but do you have a fan on it? Sorry if it seems a dumb question but you never know what people have without clarification or a pic. There are also  things that need to be fllowed for proper thermo siphoning but that said I have seen some setups that seem to work OK that break the rules.  You do need airflow through a radiator though and a small fan off a car or bike will be enough for these engines. You may also want to ensure a good air supply for the garage and be certain to duct exhaust air outside unless you have a car width door right open.

As for Fuel, it's impossible to say. It will be unlikely you will be running the thing flat out for all that time but highly likley the load will vary.  The consumption is far more about the load you apply than the engine/ genny size.  You could run the thing on a litre an hour or you could suck down 5L hour. Impossible to tell.  Easy solution is go out and get a load of fuel. Nothing like being well prepared.

If the power does go out for an extended time, be prepared for neighbors turning up wanting you to share the power.
Some can even get narky and think they have a right to plug into your genny. Seen that myself and read about it a number of times as well. Read of people getting the shits because the guy with the genny won't let them plug in their AC.  I know what I'd be telling these people and it would be our last conversation but don't be surprised it you have this happen.

I laugh when I read about " Sensitive electronics" and think this is another blown out of proportion concern.
What is sensitive these days?  Anything with a board has a power supply with a lot of filtering so it's rare to have any problems.  I have run computers and printers as well as other things off what I knew was crappy generators and never had a problem. Those electronic protection devices are largely a crock anyway and do nothing.  As suggested, best thing is a simple Volt/ amp/ frequency meter.
Nothing has to be ( or will be) perfect so get it close as you can and be happy.

Just make sure all your big loads are not running at once and you should be fine.
Have plenty of water, oil and fuel, sare fuel filter, belts and other things just in case and enjoy camping at home WITH power a lot of others won't have.  :0)

38ac

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2018, 12:22:57 PM »
Hard for me to make reverent comment about the installation when I  have not seen it.  Some are nicely done and some are a wreck waiting to happen.
Planning hind sight being 20/20 we will leave that alone but I would worry about an untested set running 24/7 also. The generator suddenly cutting off should not be your worry however slowing down for whatever reason and thus losing voltage and hrz should be. What Bruce said about the wife X2.  Buy a Kill o Watt meter at Home Depot and plug it in where she will walk by it often. Teach her what the acceptable ranges are and write them on a piece of paper and tape it to the wall beside the meter.  Teach her to listen to the engine. My wife is about as mechanically inclined as nothing but because she likes to have power so she very quickly learned to listen to the exhaust note of the 1115 China diesel 15KW set and watch the kilowatt meter. I also told her to go out and take a look and call me if ANYTHING looked or sounded out of place. If your wife isn't going to get all of that then personally I would shut it off when not around,  her inconvenience during the times you are not there will be greatly magnified by no power whatsoever or burned up electronics.

It has been 4 years since we had an outage long enough to use our set but I exercise it monthly. I usually let it run at part throttle for a bit to warm up then throttle it up to speed. One time I got busy after I started it  so I  didnt bring the RPMs up. The wife came out of the house and said, You better check that generator,it doesn't sound right!
I was pretty proud of her for that ;D

Fuel usage varies with demand placed on the engine. Our 1115 set doesn't work very hard with us living pretty much normally and runs almost everything in the house with very little usage management while burning about a quart per hour. Your 10/1 should be in that same range with a stiff loading. Take that loading down to 2-3KW and usage should be about a little over a pint per hour.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 12:26:43 PM by 38ac »
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

Listerational

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2018, 12:54:54 PM »

Thanks,

These are all awesome suggestions. I will definitely blow a fan on the radiator, good idea. I will plug in my kilowatt / frequency meter and have her watch it.

I appreciate the help. I will sleep good tonight.

Best,

Jim

PS. The head is a 7kw.

dax021

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 03:44:35 PM »
You know, I normally switch off when Glort starts ranting, but I must be honest, his is the best advice so far.  Stop worrying, these things are designed to run for extended periods.  What I would do is not wait for the hurricane, but load the thing as much as possible now and run for at least 12hrs while you're there.  If nothing goes wrong - test passsed.  Now you will know how much oil and fuel it uses and will be prepared and confident when the hurricane does hit

Listerational

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2018, 09:51:51 PM »
Good idea. Thanks for the tip.....

Johndoh

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2018, 12:15:26 AM »
In fairness to Glort he's no Penelope Pitstop, no help I've just broken a nail! He's old school seems to just try it if it works great learn from it same as if it doesn't work. There's usually a little nugget of wisdom
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

dax021

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2018, 06:20:40 PM »
hey, no offence meant towards Glort.  I've learnt a hell of a lot from his posts

Johndoh

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 11:45:05 PM »
hey, no offence meant towards Glort.  I've learnt a hell of a lot from his posts

Watch some of his youtube videos and you'll learn what NOT to do as well!
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

mikenash

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2018, 04:26:15 AM »
Yes, I was just watching him pointlessly disagreeing with each aspect of one of my recent posts (a very non-controversial one about a CS on our TradeMe online sales forum down here at the Bottom of the World)

I guess in the past I may have been upset, but, realising the poor chap both mental health issues, poor self-restraint skills,  a personality disorder and is chronically unable to watch anyone buy anything without exclaiming "You're a moron for paying that much!" - all I can do is laugh

Keep the videos coming.  When my grandchildren need to be taught about the perils of playing with fire, they are excellent

dax021

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2018, 08:24:38 AM »
I've watched quite a few and enjoyed them.  Glort, in all seriousness, keep the posts coming, it was just my cheeky South African humour taking dig at you.  I still have a lot to learn and don't want to piss too many people off. 

glort

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2018, 08:31:01 AM »
Yes, I was just watching him pointlessly disagreeing with each aspect of one of my recent posts (a very non-controversial one about a CS on our TradeMe online sales forum down here at the Bottom of the World)

Maybe you should practice reading and comprehension. You skills in this area are very clearly lacking.

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all.  I was merely relating some experiences in relation to other comments made.
Never even mentioned the auction you linked.

Makes me laugh my arse off when people have a sook and cry about things they misconstrued or read into what wasn't said and are therefore having a whinge at themselves.  ::)

For someone so quick to sling shit at others, you'd do well to sort your own failings first mate.

glort

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Re: Concerns About My First Real Test
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2018, 08:43:35 AM »
I've watched quite a few and enjoyed them.  Glort, in all seriousness, keep the posts coming, it was just my cheeky South African humour taking dig at you.  I still have a lot to learn and don't want to piss too many people off.

All good mate.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made an observation not an attack which you are more than entitled to do whether it be favorable to someone or not which is why I said nothing and took no offense to your comment. 

 If I didn't have thick skin I would not have done YT vids.
I haven't done any for a while and don't foresee myself doing any more but it was not because of the Comments from the jerkoffs  I still get.  Some people take the moral high ground but really have no idea what they are talking about in reality.
They are always real brave to make comments from the safety of their keyboard but never say anything like what they say online to your face.

I think my vids do show I can stand the heat of the fire.    ;D
 I wouldn't stop doing anything I wanted to because others wanted to grand stand on it to elevate their own non existant esteem.   :0)