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Author Topic: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator  (Read 6011 times)

fikamu

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Hi pro's  :)

Now after doing many hours of maintenace and "cleaning" plus painting, it seems like I'm gonna mont the engine to my brand new generator room.

I have read lots of documents about vibration possibilities etc. and that is why, I kindly ask if anyone of you has real and experienced knowledge, how to mount the engine in a proper way. Directly to concrete floor with heavy bolts, some wooden stuff in between or possible rubber vibration absorbers under the engine.

It will take between 1-2 weeks and I will be asking my neighbour to lift the engine with a tractor into my room. That is why, I ask this info and appreciate any valid knowledge into this.

Also I promise to send some pictures of my project when I proceed with it.

Cheers

PS. my generator room floor is 1.7 m x 1.9 m and thickness of the floor is about 12 cm. So, quite heavy and solid, I think :-)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 10:12:33 PM by fikamu »

dieselgman

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 11:11:24 PM »
Old-School Lister methods call for solid mounting to a large concrete mass. Modern genset methods always include rubber isolation mounts. Either way, your SR will be happy. If you go with the rubber mounts, you will still need an anchoring mass to bolt everything down to. Your SR1 is small and light enough to use a light duty steel skid and just bolt that to your floor or to a couple buried wooden skids, railroad ties or whatever you have to hand.

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cobbadog

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 06:42:21 AM »
I would use the 'KISS' method and bolt it to the concrete directly. Many old engines were mounted on concrete plinths with no problems. Usually the concrete plinth is a heavy lump as well and about 12" thick or more depending on the size of the engine. My 8hp CD Lister was a gen-set engine and was only ever directly bolted to an "I" beam skid and the gen-set was bolted to it as well, all with no issues.
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guest23837

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 09:00:08 AM »

Do you have any suggestion for the rubber Mounts Butch?

I tried some car gearbox mounts and they were scarily too soft.  Maybe the car engine mounts are better but then they all seem to come in weird shapes and mounting points.
Is there anything available world wide you could recommend?

Hey Glort, take a look at these Land Rover series engine mounts https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-Engine-Mount-Mounting-Rubber-x2-ANR1808/331510125083?hash=item4d2f8b121b:g:GXwAAOSwoj9bCEL7

38ac

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 12:11:07 PM »
As they said solid mount it to a suitable structure or isolate it. There are pluses and minuses to both methods.

Solid mounting is how the engine was designed to be operated. It requires a mass, be it concrete or timber that is large enough and surrounded by enough earth that it resists the motions of the engine.  Pluses are it is kind t the engine, you wont be troubled by parts and pieces being shaken off of it during operation. Minuses are cost of installation and the less mass you try to get by with the more pounding is send to the earth and it travels a surprising distance to annoy whomever is affected.

Isolation mounts are quick, and relatively cheap as compared to concrete. When properly selected are very effective at  eliminating  the pulsations being sent to the earth.  They do have one glaring minus and that is they allow the engine to shake, how much it shakes depends on RPM, make model and individual balance.

 I just had an SL1 in the shop that had been run on soft mounts. It shook the fuel tank loose so many times it wore holes in the tank, the fuel filter bracket had been broken and welded numerous times.  The engine control where it goes though the block had worn the hole in the block oblong.   This engine runs lots of hours running a milk cooler and had been on a slab that was both a bit too light  a little bit too close to the house.  Ms Amish finally had enough and announced it needed to be fixed which they did by mounting it on soft rubber mounts. Made mom happy but made Mr engine unhappy. 

If you decide to go the soft mount route you need to get everything off the engine that you can such as fuel tanks, filter heads etc. When you fire it up look for things that are shaking to a different tune than the block because that means sooner or later its going to shake its way loose.Lots of major engine failures have happened due to important things shaking off of engines while running.  Personally I always suggest mass and solid mountings as the first choice for single cylinder sets.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 12:59:25 PM by 38ac »
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guest23837

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2018, 12:52:45 PM »
Always positives and negatives! I know the Landy mounts can take a lot of abuse I didn't think they would be much difference pricewise in Oz surely they imported thousands of them? Why do the singles vibrate so much? Is it the small footprint? Would a piece of plate with double the footprint on rubber mounts make a difference? I'm curious because I have an old lister project that will need attaching to something.

38ac

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 01:09:36 PM »
The singles vibrate because there is no practical means to counter the back and forth motion of the piston with an opposite back and forth motion. The only practical method is to  counter the piston motion as best as can be with a rotating weight, usually on the flywheel. Problem is that rotating weight is also trying to move the engine 90 degrees to the piston motion along with countering it.  Multi cylinder engines counter piston movements with other pistons moving the other direction which is a better situation than occurs in a single but if those two cylinders are very far apart the opposite travelling pistons deal has it's own set of problems as anyone who has tried to settle down a Lister CS twin can attest. ;D
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 06:56:33 PM by 38ac »
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mikenash

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2018, 08:28:29 PM »
As they said solid mount it to a suitable structure or isolate it. There are pluses and minuses to both methods.

Solid mounting is how the engine was designed to be operated. It requires a mass, be it concrete or timber that is large enough and surrounded by enough earth that it resists the motions of the engine.  Pluses are it is kind t the engine, you wont be troubled by parts and pieces being shaken off of it during operation. Minuses are cost of installation and the less mass you try to get by with the more pounding is send to the earth and it travels a surprising distance to annoy whomever is affected.

Isolation mounts are quick, and relatively cheap as compared to concrete. When properly selected are very effective at  eliminating  the pulsations being sent to the earth.  They do have one glaring minus and that is they allow the engine to shake, how much it shakes depends on RPM, make model and individual balance.

 I just had an SL1 in the shop that had been run on soft mounts. It shook the fuel tank loose so many times it wore holes in the tank, the fuel filter bracket had been broken and welded numerous times.  The engine control where it goes though the block had worn the hole in the block oblong.   This engine runs lots of hours running a milk cooler and had been on a slab that was both a bit too light  a little bit too close to the house.  Ms Amish finally had enough and announced it needed to be fixed which they did by mounting it on soft rubber mounts. Made mom happy but made Mr engine unhappy. 

If you decide to go the soft mount route you need to get everything off the engine that you can such as fuel tanks, filter heads etc. When you fire it up look for things that are shaking to a different tune than the block because that means sooner or later its going to shake its way loose.Lots of major engine failures have happened due to important things shaking off of engines while running.  Personally I always suggest mass and solid mountings as the first choice for single cylinder sets.


We have SRs here as on-site pump engines - rubber-mounted on transportable frames.  The things that really needs remote mounting, in our experience, are the diesel tanks and the controllers.  The controller will shake itself to bits in a few weeks on site.  Ditto the solenoids given time

ajaffa1

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 11:14:44 PM »
You could try something like this

Bob

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2018, 02:01:40 AM »
Many times, compliant (rubber mounts) will exhibit a resonance when speeding up or slowing down.  Since our engines spend 99.9% of the time at fixed RPM for AC generation, it's only an issue at start-up and shut-down, but you should keep an eye on it.   And as the rubber wears over the years, the resonance may change

mikenash

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2018, 04:03:54 AM »
You could try something like this

Bob

The Last SR on which I re-mounted the controller and bits-and-bobs had mountings just like these.  I thought it had to do with what it was driving as much as with the engine itself, and the varying loads as that engaged/disengaged etc - in this case a multi-stack water pump lifting water almost 100 metres vertically and with which the pump stopped/started as the water tank filled etc

To be fair, the controller was stupidly mounted on a pedestal where it would pick up all the vibes . . . .

cobbadog

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2018, 07:43:21 AM »
Definitely would mount it on timber skids and bolt the timber down solid. Earlier it was noted that if bolted directly to concrete there is a possibility that the concrete may not be perfectly even and level and can cause a foot to break. I know it does as I have a leg broken off a small hit n miss engine and now I need to weld it up and then use some timber between the foot and the steel frame.
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ajaffa1

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 09:17:30 AM »
I think timber is probably the easiest and most readily available. Just be aware that unseasoned timber moves, Australian hardwood might actually move enough to crack a casting. The other issue here is termites/white ants which will turn a railway sleeper into dust in about 18 months.

So I would recommend pine treated with copper chrome arsenate, it`s strong enough to take the load, weak enough to not damage the feet on you equipment and nothing is going to eat it. You will probably need to re-torque the bolts at regular intervals as the timber dries and shrinks

Bob

ajaffa1

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 01:50:08 PM »
When I worked for Boral saw milling, it would break my heart to watch beautiful timber cut into 4" x 1" boards, it would then be sent to Lismore and Casino to be dried. After that is was turned into decking boards for verandas.  :'(

70% waste, 30% usable timber and they had to pay M I Organics to take away the waste. F*cking criminal they can`t even be bothered to recycle the waste into particle board or burn it to power their operations.

I feel for your loss of seasoned timber, it takes a year per inch thickness to air dry wood. It can be kiln dried but why use fossil fuels to do what nature does for nothing. Lack of foresight and planning as usual.  >:(

Bob

guest23837

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Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2018, 02:09:50 PM »
Im going to use my railway sleepers good seasoned timber I got for bending over to lift them!