Author Topic: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator  (Read 622 times)

fikamu

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Hi pro's  :)

Now after doing many hours of maintenace and "cleaning" plus painting, it seems like I'm gonna mont the engine to my brand new generator room.

I have read lots of documents about vibration possibilities etc. and that is why, I kindly ask if anyone of you has real and experienced knowledge, how to mount the engine in a proper way. Directly to concrete floor with heavy bolts, some wooden stuff in between or possible rubber vibration absorbers under the engine.

It will take between 1-2 weeks and I will be asking my neighbour to lift the engine with a tractor into my room. That is why, I ask this info and appreciate any valid knowledge into this.

Also I promise to send some pictures of my project when I proceed with it.

Cheers

PS. my generator room floor is 1.7 m x 1.9 m and thickness of the floor is about 12 cm. So, quite heavy and solid, I think :-)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 10:12:33 PM by fikamu »

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3139
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 11:11:24 PM »
Old-School Lister methods call for solid mounting to a large concrete mass. Modern genset methods always include rubber isolation mounts. Either way, your SR will be happy. If you go with the rubber mounts, you will still need an anchoring mass to bolt everything down to. Your SR1 is small and light enough to use a light duty steel skid and just bolt that to your floor or to a couple buried wooden skids, railroad ties or whatever you have to hand.

dieselgman
Ford Powerstroke, Caterpillar 3304, Cummins M11, Too many Listers to count...

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2318
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 03:50:57 AM »

Do you have any suggestion for the rubber Mounts Butch?

I tried some car gearbox mounts and they were scarily too soft.  Maybe the car engine mounts are better but then they all seem to come in weird shapes and mounting points.
Is there anything available world wide you could recommend?

cobbadog

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 06:42:21 AM »
I would use the 'KISS' method and bolt it to the concrete directly. Many old engines were mounted on concrete plinths with no problems. Usually the concrete plinth is a heavy lump as well and about 12" thick or more depending on the size of the engine. My 8hp CD Lister was a gen-set engine and was only ever directly bolted to an "I" beam skid and the gen-set was bolted to it as well, all with no issues.
Coopernook - the centre of our Universe.

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2318
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 08:24:12 AM »

I think if you go direct to concrete, using a strip of rubber between the engine and the floor is a good Idea to take up any unevenness in the concrete.
I doubt there is much give in a cast engine casing and if you were out of level and torqued the thing down a bit hard, you are easily going to break off a foot if not worse.

I mounted mine on some timber and bolted the timber to the concrete so as to provide a bit of give and mainly sound isolation.


Johndoh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2018, 09:00:08 AM »

Do you have any suggestion for the rubber Mounts Butch?

I tried some car gearbox mounts and they were scarily too soft.  Maybe the car engine mounts are better but then they all seem to come in weird shapes and mounting points.
Is there anything available world wide you could recommend?

Hey Glort, take a look at these Land Rover series engine mounts https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-Engine-Mount-Mounting-Rubber-x2-ANR1808/331510125083?hash=item4d2f8b121b:g:GXwAAOSwoj9bCEL7
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2318
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 12:06:24 PM »

Thanks for the heads up! They look like they would do well for a lot of gear mounting.

Typically, any thing for a euro car here is ridiculously expensive where in the UK etc it's the exact opposite.
On these seems like a matter of the devil and the deep Blue sea. Buy from OS and get slugged with stupid postage costs, buy locally and get slugged with extortionate profit margins.

Tried some other sites and found some other mounts, ( thanks for more ideas and inspiration) and found the same thing, Item is cheap, price is a killer.
They look good though so I'll keep an eye out for a set of the things at the right price for the items AND postage!

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2018, 12:11:07 PM »
As they said solid mount it to a suitable structure or isolate it. There are pluses and minuses to both methods.

Solid mounting is how the engine was designed to be operated. It requires a mass, be it concrete or timber that is large enough and surrounded by enough earth that it resists the motions of the engine.  Pluses are it is kind t the engine, you wont be troubled by parts and pieces being shaken off of it during operation. Minuses are cost of installation and the less mass you try to get by with the more pounding is send to the earth and it travels a surprising distance to annoy whomever is affected.

Isolation mounts are quick, and relatively cheap as compared to concrete. When properly selected are very effective at  eliminating  the pulsations being sent to the earth.  They do have one glaring minus and that is they allow the engine to shake, how much it shakes depends on RPM, make model and individual balance.

 I just had an SL1 in the shop that had been run on soft mounts. It shook the fuel tank loose so many times it wore holes in the tank, the fuel filter bracket had been broken and welded numerous times.  The engine control where it goes though the block had worn the hole in the block oblong.   This engine runs lots of hours running a milk cooler and had been on a slab that was both a bit too light  a little bit too close to the house.  Ms Amish finally had enough and announced it needed to be fixed which they did by mounting it on soft rubber mounts. Made mom happy but made Mr engine unhappy. 

If you decide to go the soft mount route you need to get everything off the engine that you can such as fuel tanks, filter heads etc. When you fire it up look for things that are shaking to a different tune than the block because that means sooner or later its going to shake its way loose.Lots of major engine failures have happened due to important things shaking off of engines while running.  Personally I always suggest mass and solid mountings as the first choice for single cylinder sets.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 12:59:25 PM by 38ac »
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

Johndoh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 12:52:45 PM »
Always positives and negatives! I know the Landy mounts can take a lot of abuse I didn't think they would be much difference pricewise in Oz surely they imported thousands of them? Why do the singles vibrate so much? Is it the small footprint? Would a piece of plate with double the footprint on rubber mounts make a difference? I'm curious because I have an old lister project that will need attaching to something.
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2018, 01:09:36 PM »
The singles vibrate because there is no practical means to counter the back and forth motion of the piston with an opposite back and forth motion. The only practical method is to  counter the piston motion as best as can be with a rotating weight, usually on the flywheel. Problem is that rotating weight is also trying to move the engine 90 degrees to the piston motion along with countering it.  Multi cylinder engines counter piston movements with other pistons moving the other direction which is a better situation than occurs in a single but if those two cylinders are very far apart the opposite travelling pistons deal has it's own set of problems as anyone who has tried to settle down a Lister CS twin can attest. ;D
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 06:56:33 PM by 38ac »
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2318
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2018, 01:51:15 PM »

I didn't think they would be much difference pricewise in Oz surely they imported thousands of them?

9 years ago a close friend worked for a dealer that did a number of euro brands including Landrover, BMW, Alfalfa, Merc and Rolls.
Amazed by the parts prices, he put together a list of things where LR were more exy than anything else, INCLUDING Rolls.
I remember a car he had as his company car, a luxury Rangie got a cracked headlight when he was driving on the highway.
 List price? Touch under $4000.

Everything LR and RR, ( that's Range rover, not rolls) is worth a fortune here. 
Even many of the aftermarket parts.

I had a Peugeot  405 for a while. Very nicely appointed car and with some mods and the fuel pump turned up and the wastegate disabled, went like a cut snake.  Small parts for that were 1/5th the price to get from the UK.  I did the back brakes and needed new lines into the slave Cylinders.  Some astronomical price for a bit of 30 Cm line with some compression fittings. From memory it was well over $300 and no one had them non genuine.
Went to the Hydraulic  place and they made me a pair out of some high spec stuff they tested to 10K psi or something for $30.  Ready in an hour.

Sons mate came over one evening and I smelled him before I saw him. VW golf's alternator was smoking like it was about to catch fire.  Replacement from stealer, over $900.  Didn't take much to fab  a bracket to put one from a Subaru in there instead as they were the same alt ( Mitsubishi surprisingly) with different mounting width.

mikenash

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2018, 08:28:29 PM »
As they said solid mount it to a suitable structure or isolate it. There are pluses and minuses to both methods.

Solid mounting is how the engine was designed to be operated. It requires a mass, be it concrete or timber that is large enough and surrounded by enough earth that it resists the motions of the engine.  Pluses are it is kind t the engine, you wont be troubled by parts and pieces being shaken off of it during operation. Minuses are cost of installation and the less mass you try to get by with the more pounding is send to the earth and it travels a surprising distance to annoy whomever is affected.

Isolation mounts are quick, and relatively cheap as compared to concrete. When properly selected are very effective at  eliminating  the pulsations being sent to the earth.  They do have one glaring minus and that is they allow the engine to shake, how much it shakes depends on RPM, make model and individual balance.

 I just had an SL1 in the shop that had been run on soft mounts. It shook the fuel tank loose so many times it wore holes in the tank, the fuel filter bracket had been broken and welded numerous times.  The engine control where it goes though the block had worn the hole in the block oblong.   This engine runs lots of hours running a milk cooler and had been on a slab that was both a bit too light  a little bit too close to the house.  Ms Amish finally had enough and announced it needed to be fixed which they did by mounting it on soft rubber mounts. Made mom happy but made Mr engine unhappy. 

If you decide to go the soft mount route you need to get everything off the engine that you can such as fuel tanks, filter heads etc. When you fire it up look for things that are shaking to a different tune than the block because that means sooner or later its going to shake its way loose.Lots of major engine failures have happened due to important things shaking off of engines while running.  Personally I always suggest mass and solid mountings as the first choice for single cylinder sets.


We have SRs here as on-site pump engines - rubber-mounted on transportable frames.  The things that really needs remote mounting, in our experience, are the diesel tanks and the controllers.  The controller will shake itself to bits in a few weeks on site.  Ditto the solenoids given time

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 796
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2018, 11:14:44 PM »
You could try something like this

Bob

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1280
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 02:01:40 AM »
Many times, compliant (rubber mounts) will exhibit a resonance when speeding up or slowing down.  Since our engines spend 99.9% of the time at fixed RPM for AC generation, it's only an issue at start-up and shut-down, but you should keep an eye on it.   And as the rubber wears over the years, the resonance may change

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2318
    • View Profile
Re: What is the right mounting method of Lister SR1 engine + generator
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2018, 02:10:36 AM »

Looking more like rigid mounting might be the safer way to go?