Author Topic: Micro power gen  (Read 1377 times)

glort

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2018, 12:05:54 PM »
I intend live more in the style of Bob (Ajaffa) and Starfire than feeding power hungry aircon and so on, as it will be a summer residence, at least for the start.

If the situation allowed, you could potentially run the water through your turbine if the power house was above the residence and then run the water or some of it through a radiator with a fan for cooling as well.  Water is a great resource!

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300 amp hr battery for kitchen and hair dryer duty, with a 5000 w inverter, 150 ah battery for the 12v led lights and 150 ah battery for the 'media', tv, radio, internet ect. Both the small banks to have their own, smaller inverters.

On 12V, your 5000W inverter will be pulling around 500amps from the battery.  You are going to heat battery cable up plenty fast at that rate which is why they normally use the higher voltage.  I wasn't even sure they mae a 12V inverter at that high a rating.
If you are going to buy one, a little tip I have learned with inverters.

Check the fuse rating.  all the time I see inverters on fleabay rated at say 1000W but have 40A fuses.  As rule of thumb, use 10x as the multiplication factor to allow for inefficiency in the inverter, voltage variations etc and you will be lightly on the right side of caution.  If an inveter has a 40A Fuse, multiplied by 10 gives you 400W.  It's not going to do 1000w in a pink fit but many you see are rated like this.  A 5000W inverter would have to have a 500A breaker or fuse so use that as a guide to check what the real capacity of anything may be.  Of course if you are looking at 24V, you can halve the rating.

500A out of a 300Ah battery is a LOT. I realise you won't use this all the time but even at 100A, 1000W, that's still a decent draw and you would not get much more than an hour out of it unless you have a proper deep cycle battery. Even then, I'd be checking the rating of the thing to use it for more than 2 hours. If however you are going to be putting in substantial amps with the MH or the lister, then things will be a lot better run wise.
300Ah @12V is around 3 Kwh.


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The charging I'm happy to split, 8/12 hrs in the daytime for the kitchen, lights 6 / 8 hours or so in the evening, the rest to the media in the dark hours. all timer controlled to allow for balancing the charging time and add / subtract batteries as 'real time' usage dictates.

What is the benefit of splitting the battery's up? It would seem to me to be more benificial to be pulling the loads of a bigger single reserve but no doubt you have other considerations in mind.

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When SHMBO dictates the need for 220v ac Lister should cover the washing machine, dishwasher,ect. and allow for power in the workshop.

Washing machine? Dishwasher???
You don't need power for these, you have water! For a washing machine you put a Pipe with flowing water into the side of a 44. On the top is a lock down mesh screen.  Open top, load clothes, secure top. Turn on valve.  Clothes are agitated and tumbled buy a constant flow of beautiful mountain water that spills out the top. Never fresher or cleaner!

Dishwasher similar,  Stick them in a tray, constant rotating jet of water over the top. No need for detergents or hot water.  Put in at night, remove in the morning,. they will be fine!  :0)

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Having done the calc's to the best of my ability I reckon 500w 24/7 is just about doable, 750 gives a little margin and 1000 will be Rolls Royce, should I be wrong I'll start the Lister early.
  With 50M of head and a 4" pipe, you should be pulling 5Kw without much trouble, 3 at a minimum.
I think your calcs are very conservative!

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All I have to do is buy it, put in a road, re roof it, put in some windows and a concrete floor ans before I fit out the internals first!!

Cheers Stef

Terrific!
I'll look forward to seeing the pics of it all completed this time next week then!     :laugh:

dieselspanner

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2018, 10:21:35 AM »
A couple of good points there, Glort

I'm liking the use of the stream water for running red neck air con, and the dish washer, not too sure how the washing machine will fare with the lacy French underwear.......

The idea behind the three banks was to keep it all simple, no more than two batteries per bank with a dedicated (cheap Chinese) charger from the Lister as back up, and plenty of redundancy

The 'kitchen bank' would only be used for blenders, mixers ect. and the hair dryer, I'd rather have a bigger inverter running easy than a small one that struggles with the start up of a particular appliance. I can't see anything being run for more that a few minutes, and that would most likely be during the day when it's on charge.

I had a pair of 130 ah deep cycle batteries on my barge and they, with a 6000w inverter would run the whole boat with a standard 22v domestic under the counter 'fridge (and the hairdryer) for a day and a half.

I don't want to use too much water as the stream in question supplies the top half of our valley with potable water and if I bandit the lot the local Marie (council) will have a hissy fit, you can do more or less what you like up here, until you piss the neighbours off, then they bubble you to the Mayor and he has to do something or he won't get voted in next time.

Hence the plan to use a 4" pipe, to keep the losses to friction down but have as high a pressure with a correspondingly lower flow down below. If, in practice, there's no problem I can 'big' things up later. It would be nice to pull 5Kw and back feed the grid, but A, there's no grid and B, electricity here is cheaper, most of it is hydro or nuclear, and the feed in tarriffs are correspondingly low

The inverter on the barge was a Chinese inverter / charger, 6000w , cost around 600 and was running for 4 years before I sold up. Went a bit against the then perceived wisdom that nothing would do but a couple of grands worth of kit from the big boys.

A good tip on checking the fuse ratings too.

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

glort

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2018, 10:48:17 AM »

I'm liking the use of the stream water for running red neck air con, and the dish washer, not too sure how the washing machine will fare with the lacy French underwear.......

I hadn't thought about the underwear situation Stef.
With your lacy underwear, you could always just not open the water valve so hard for a more gentle wash.   

Here a popular underwear is a more  " Durable"  Sort of Jocks Like these:

   
Or these which are great for preventing Chafing in our hot weather.


Perhaps you could save your lacy Jocks for special occasions and do them by hand of you must and wear these more suitably crafted units for everyday use?  They would certainly give you a lot more cred in the changing room at the gym than lacy knickers but maybe you french guys are different and you all wear lacy knickers there?

I'm sure the Aussie style jocks would stand up to the rigors of stream washing quite well even if they had to be washed a bit more actively to remove evidence of any little " accidents".  :laugh:

With 50M of 4" pipe you may be able to pick up an old single bearing generator somewhere, and and end plate and extend the shaft and just have a 240V Supply straight off without the need for an inverter etc. There are load controllers that would enable this all allow for variation in the load and frequency.
Of course with the power you will be able to generate, you'll probably be able to run AC, washing machines and everything else you like without a care! :0)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 11:00:06 AM by glort »

ajaffa1

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2018, 12:37:52 PM »
Hi Stef, I think Glort may have a point, perhaps you have spent too much time at sea if you have taken to wearing women`s underwear, has SWMBO taken to wearing men`s underwear?

We live in troubled times, thank god for our sense of humor!  :laugh:

Bob

dieselspanner

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2018, 12:45:44 PM »
SWMBO doesn't wear Male undies, she wears the trousers.............

I did go through a spell of wearing pink lacy French knickers, the lads found out when I turned up for practice at the rugby club having forgotten I was still had them on, when the tight head prop said

'How long have you been wearing them, Stef?'

I said 'Since the Mrs found a pair in the back of my Landrover'

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

ajaffa1

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2018, 01:17:49 PM »
Rugby, Land rovers and lace underwear, SHMBO wears the trousers? Things are worse than I thought. When you move into your place in the Pyrenees we`ll have to get Trump to build a wall around it, to prevent the spread of dangerous, subversive French liberalism.

Bob

LowGear

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2018, 08:48:19 PM »
Hi mike90045,

The calculator came up with 1.11 KW a day.  The rush is over.  It'd take one hell of a pump to duplicate the flow but even fudging the flow up to 100 GPM I only got $1.90 per day.

Thanks,

Casey
NPR Tipper/Dump Truck
Kubota BX 2230
Witte BD Generator
SunnyBoy 6000 + SolarWorld 245

dieselspanner

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2018, 09:11:02 PM »
Bob,

I want, no I need the wall. So much so that I'll chip in a few shillings, i see it as defence rather than exclusion.............

Cheers

Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

mikenash

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2018, 10:33:29 PM »
SWMBO doesn't wear Male undies, she wears the trousers.............

I did go through a spell of wearing pink lacy French knickers, the lads found out when I turned up for practice at the rugby club having forgotten I was still had them on, when the tight head prop said

'How long have you been wearing them, Stef?'

I said 'Since the Mrs found a pair in the back of my Landrover'

Cheers Stef

LMFAO

glort

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2018, 03:02:13 AM »
Bob,

I want, no I need the wall. So much so that I'll chip in a few shillings, i see it as defence rather than exclusion.............

From what I read, Your historic and very fine culture has already been severely invaded and infected by virtually lawless hordes that have wreaked havoc on so many parts of Europe.  I think a wall would be a fantastic Idea to preserve your culture but you'd need to  make sure you got the infection out so it did not fester from within before you closed the gates.

I'd like to see France one day. Always been an ambition to see the Eiffel Tower as it is such a world famous land mark.  My daughter was there last year and love France but even she could see parts where there was a severe erosion of the culture which she said looked exactly the same as where our own towns had been undermined.  I think the french culture is a very unique one and it would be truly sad to see it eroded just to satisfy the whims of the always whining Politically correct  whom want to cater to the every whim of an even bigger bunch of whingers and deadbeats.

I'm all for walls. Seems the only people that are not are from places they have turned into wastelands that no one, even themselves, want to be in any more and ultimately want to do to the places they want to get into. 

ajaffa1

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2018, 09:42:41 AM »
If only building a wall could protect us from the greed of capitalism and the stupidity of governments that rely on it for income.

I suspect the only way to protect yourself from their influence is to build a rocket and f*ck off to another planet. Sadly every billionaire on earth has already come to the same conclusion. Musk, Branson, Bezos and all the rest of them would make lousy neighbors. The Pyrenees is probably as safe as you can get.

Bob

dieselspanner

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2018, 11:11:06 AM »
Like wot I said, don't piss anyone off and it's great.......

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

dieselspanner

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2018, 03:51:48 PM »
Hi All

So yesterday a mate and myself climbed up to the steam at the top of the plot with the test equipment, well a four foot length of three inch pipe and a ten liter bucket.

I had no idea what 10 liters a second looks like so we had a play. The stream splits into two just above the ideal point to collect the water, with the larger part on the south side, this means that even if I use all the flow on the smaller side, around one third of the total, I'll not bugger up the valleys fresh water supply.

We made a small dam and got around a third of the smaller flow through the 3" pipe, it filled the bucket in less than 3 seconds, the flow was filling about a quarter of the pipe. I was well surprised, I reckon with some playing around 10 liters a second will be easy, and 15 likely.

This is the driest time of year, so I should thing the project has some legs.

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

BruceM

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2018, 04:06:43 PM »
That's sweet, Stef.  There's nothing like a 24/7 power source to minimize your battery bank size and ongoing battery replacement cost! 

Passive filtering of power to the home plus EMT conduit and compression fitting for the home wiring to minimize emissions and you will save a fortune in medical costs/misery.

glort

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Re: Micro power gen
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2018, 04:53:41 PM »

Worst case scenario:

40M head, 10Ls flow = About 2.4 KW out the gen head ( accounting for 40% conversion losses as real delivered electricity. )

Best case scenario:

50M head, 15Ls flow = around 4.4Kw real generated Power.

For battery banks, that's Highly substantial.

You won't need much battery reserve with that kind of generation capability.  You would run most things in a normal home without even dipping into  the battery reserve as long as the battery charger can handle the power.  Thinking about it, You wouldn't even need a real powerful charger. Connect the inverter directly to the genny output then to the battery. Have another connection from the inverter back tot he battery through some diodes so the battery can't over charge and have a separate charge circuit.  That way if you are pulling up to say 3 Kw the power is converted straight from the genny and the batteries are only acting as a stabiliser of sorts.  Over your input, say 3 KW, the batteries make up the shortfall from the generator.

Once the load was removed ( under 3 KW)  the charger would top off the power taken from the batteries and have them ready at full charge ASAP.