Author Topic: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project  (Read 5291 times)

sirpedrosa

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #120 on: September 11, 2019, 08:27:29 PM »
And more...

Multimeter  readings in rotor and windings in ohms.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 08:30:32 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

sirpedrosa

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #121 on: September 11, 2019, 08:28:15 PM »
more 4 pics...

Windings, Rectifier bridge, and a few figures in plate.
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

ajaffa1

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #122 on: September 11, 2019, 11:02:29 PM »
Hi VP, I don`t recognize that generator however it is in a very similar condition to one I am working on. Mine is a 32 volt DC generator with an integral starter motor.

We both have the same problem with cloth covered rubber insulation having broken down. I will be striping the cloth insulating tape of each coil and soldering new wires in place before recovering the coils and varnishing them. I will probably start doing this tomorrow and will post some photos showing how it is done.

Here are a couple of photos of the coils as they are now.

Bob

sirpedrosa

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #123 on: September 12, 2019, 12:14:11 AM »
Hi Bob

My multimeter figures tell anything to you?

Cheers
VP
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

ajaffa1

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #124 on: September 12, 2019, 09:22:27 AM »
Hi VP, the figures look good. The two things you do not want to see are 0 ohms (burned out with a short circuit) and infinity or open circuit (burned out with broken wires)

Looks like you got lucky so far.  Been thinking about that generator and the letters PL, could it be that it is LP for Lister Petter? As far as I know neither Lister or Petter ever made their own generator heads, instead they bought them from outside sources like Brush, Markon and Dunlite but I might be wrong.

I do not know what nationality have that sort of electrical outlet, some countries in Europe have similar outlets. I am hoping it is not an American unit as it will be 110 Volt rather than 240 volt as used in Europe. If it is a 110 volt unit it may be possible to convert it to 240 volt depending on how it is wired. I would recommend that you visit your local airport or supermarket/hardware store and purchase an international electrical travel adapter and find out which one fits.

I will be starting to renovate the coils on my little generator tomorrow and will post some pics and info as I go.

Bob

sirpedrosa

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project - genHead collected - Winpower
« Reply #125 on: September 12, 2019, 11:36:46 AM »
Hi Bob

Butch give also a hand, and he says the unit seem like a WINPOWER, and searching further I conclude for his opinion.

This unit have several hours of work - says seller - and is 220V, or 2*110, because wires of stator are connected serial.

It was direct connected to a Hatz engine, hand I think it will be a 3000rpm.

Lets see how it goes.

Cheers
VP
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

ajaffa1

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #126 on: September 12, 2019, 01:39:42 PM »
Well done VP, yes it will run at 1500 or 3000 for 50 HZ or it will run 1800 or 3600 for 60 HZ, I am guessing at 3 KVA continuous but will cope with 5 KVA for short periods. The voltage regulation is via the bridge rectifier, as the current demand increases the current being fed through the field windings also increases thus regulating the voltage, the voltage stability is governed by the accuracy and response of the governor on the driving engine. It is possible to replace the bridge rectifier with an automatic voltage regulator to improve the output stability. If you want to run sensitive electronic devices I would recommend an AVR, if you want to run lights and power tools don`t worry about it.

Please pass on my best wishes to Butch.

Bob

ajaffa1

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #127 on: September 13, 2019, 01:17:28 PM »
Hi VP, I started on rewiring the 60 year lighting plant today. The cloth covered rubber insulation on the wires has perished and they all need to be replaced. I am hoping your new generator head is in better condition but if not I am hoping that my approach to this will help you.

First thing to understand is that this unit has four sets of coil windings one set for north/south pole for generation and a second set for turning the generator into a starter motor. The set I have been playing with today is the starter motor windings. They are solid copper windings with a cloth insulation. When these were made the cloth would have been in perfect condition, they would have wound the coil around a former and then soldered on the external wires as needed. The coil would then have been tied up tight, with cloth, before the whole thing was immersed in varnish. Back in the 1950`s this would probably have been a shellac based varnish.

This process ensured good insulation between the coil and also fixed them in place to ensure no movement or chafing between the layers, under load. So what can we do to restore them without having to send them for an expensive rewind? The first thing is to check the resistance between each end of the coil. We do not want to see either 0 ohms or infinity ohms, in between is good.

The second job is to very carefully remove the cloth covering that holds the coil together, this will give access to the soldered connections between the solid copper core and the more flexible interconnection wires. Now cut out the damaged wires and replace them using crimp connectors with the plastic covering removed. (be sure to clean the wires before trying to solder them) Crimp them tight and then solder them in place, now cover the joint with heat shrink, I like to use two layers of heat shrink

The next job is to put some surgical tape around any part of the coil that has movement in it, now immerse the entire coil assembly in polyurethane varnish, let it soak right in before removing and allowing to dry, brush off any excess varnish to avoid drips/runs and etc. Leave to dry.

Next is to wrap the coil to make sure it cannot come apart. I have tried all sorts of insulation and cloth tapes and have found that Micropore surgical tape is second to none; it is cheap, strong, porous, self adhesive and readily available but most important of all the adhesive does not dissolve in polyurethane varnish. Once you have wrapped your coil with Micropore tape it`s back for another swim in varnish, pull it out, brush off any drips or runs and let it dry for a day or two.

When done it should look something like the photos below.

Bob

sirpedrosa

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - genHead collected - Winpower
« Reply #128 on: September 13, 2019, 02:15:25 PM »
Hi Bob

You are indeed a handyman. I'm light years from you. This only shows you have had a hard life, but overcome everything.

My last improvements, were search deep int the net to get every info available.

I'm writing to WINCO (USA), that acquired WINPOWER (quote), but documentation lost (as always, because nobody look at it as a asset).

As you can see in pics my stator winding are shorted, dispite showing resistence.

Next days will give a visit to a winding shop nearby.

I'll keep posting some news.

Stay safe
VP
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

sirpedrosa

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - genHead collected - Winpower
« Reply #129 on: September 13, 2019, 02:52:23 PM »
Hi All

updating: just received age of the gen head from WINCO (Bob Baron, Service Technician) saying: "The serial number said it was made in 1973 and that was the model.  Other than there is no data available."

Not bad so far...
VP

PS: He says the model is BM2B2-B, but I think it will be a earlier  model, like 2nd pic, a FM model.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 03:35:23 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

ajaffa1

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #130 on: September 14, 2019, 11:00:51 AM »
Well done VP, looks like your detective work is starting to pay off, lets hope one of our American cousins has a service manual hidden away.

Bob

sirpedrosa

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #131 on: September 14, 2019, 12:04:11 PM »
Hi  Bob

They send several, but their site got plenty available. See here: https://www.wincogen.com/wp-content/uploads/PD/

I'll  share it in my Gdrive.

Nice weekend to all.
VP
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 04:11:29 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

sirpedrosa

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - genHead - Cleaned and ready to assemble
« Reply #132 on: September 14, 2019, 11:05:41 PM »
Hi Gentle

One more step to the gen head.

"A good brushing and cleaning gives a new life".

A V pulley 1,5" saved, polished and varnished.

Happy day for everyone.
VP
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 11:09:20 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

sirpedrosa

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - genHead - new bearings, primer and the swet patato
« Reply #133 on: September 15, 2019, 03:47:01 PM »
Hi Everyone

While the morning was cool I went for a walk in the garden to pull out the sweet potatoes ... not bad for a 10m row. The other have to wait maybe one or two more weeks.

After that, pressing new bearings in gen's rotor, and primer paint in some bits.

Have a sunny day.
VP
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 10:19:27 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968 (mama's water pump - year of my birth)
Petter PAZ1 - Jun 1967, 3HP, sn 416xxxx
Petter PAZ1 - Nov 1979, 3HP, sn 425xxxx

ajaffa1

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Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« Reply #134 on: September 17, 2019, 11:29:40 AM »
Well done VP, looks like the crops are going as well as your engine rebuilds.

I have been busy restoring old generator coils, nothing wrong with the coils just the insulation on the wires coming out of them. Got the coils back in the generator today, looking good so far.

Bob