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Author Topic: Ok, now I'm confused  (Read 621 times)

lastlaugh

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Ok, now I'm confused
« on: August 14, 2018, 01:14:31 AM »
I have finally gotten my ST2 on the floor in my garage, and started looking at the gen head (kohler). It fist appears to my uneducated eyes to be a 4phase generator? It seems to have 4 slip rings, but the data plate says single phase, 8.5kW.

What am I looking at in the pictures? And what is the cylindrical swirly thing?!

4 rings:


4 brushes


Data plate says single phase:


lastlaugh

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2018, 01:30:10 AM »
according to the Kohler explaination of model code:  8.5CMO61



Explanation of Model Code:

In models below 1000watts, first numerals indicate capacity in watts. In models starting at 1000 watts,first numerals
indicate capacity in kW.

The first letter following numeral indicates method of starting:
A Automatic
C Push Button at Plant
D Manual
R Remote Control

The second,third and fourth letters indicate special modifications:
B Briggs & Stratton
C 12VoltCranking
D Detroit Diesel
F 50Cycle
H Housing
K Kohler Engine
L Liquid Cooled
M Air Cooled
O Diesel Fuel
P Perkins
S 3600RPM
T 1200RPM
V 180Cycle
W Wisconsin Motors Engine
Y Rotating Field
Z Fast Response/Brushless

Second last numeral indicates voltage,phase,wires:
01 120/240VoltAC,3Phase,4Wire
21 120VoltAC,1Phase,2Wire
31 120VoltAC,3Phase,3Wire
41 240VoltAC,1Phase,2Wire
51 240VoltAC,3Phase,3Wire
61 120/240VoltAC,1Phase,3Wire
71 277/480VoltAC,3Phase,4Wire
81 120/208VoltAC,3Phase,4Wire
91 347/600VoltAC,3Phase,4Wire

Last number will indicate method of cooling and fuel:
1 GasolineorDiesel
2 CombinationGas/GasolineorStraightGas
3 Marine,HeatExchanger
4 CityWaterCooled,GasolineorDiesel
5 Gasoline,Portable
6 Gas,Portable
7 DirectWaterCooled,KeelCooled,RemoteRadiator
8 CityWaterCooled,Gas


So, it was originally push button start, air cooled diesel, single phase, 120/240, 3 wire. Is this still correct? (I have no idea what I'm looking at!

mike90045

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 01:41:44 AM »
The cylindrical swirly thing is a big load resistor




lastlaugh

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 01:48:22 AM »
The cylindrical swirly thing is a big load resistor



Thank you for the information! Googling now

ajaffa1

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 10:46:30 AM »
Hi Lastlaugh, please don`t be confused. There are two ways to generate electricity, the first is to rotate a magnetic field inside a coil, the second is to rotate a coil inside a magnetic field. It is much cheaper to make an alternator in which you rotate the magnetic field inside the coil. Permanent magnets are expensive and degenerate over time so most alternators use an iron core wound with copper wire, these are called field windings, applying a DC voltage to that copper wire creates a magnetic field in the iron core. The primary mover (engine) rotates that magnetic field. As the magnetic field passes by each of the coils mounted around it it forces electrons in those coils to flow in one direction, generating electricity.

I believe that since your generator head has four slip rings it has two sets of field windings. If you follow the wiring back from the slip rings you should find some heavy duty resistors and diodes. In more modern alternators you would find an automatic voltage regulator.

Have fun,
Bob


ajaffa1

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 11:32:04 AM »
Further to my earlier post, it is also possible to create a magnetic field by feeding AC to two field windings that are offset to one another, this can eliminates the requirement for diodes/rectifiers.

Bob

glort

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 11:39:41 AM »

Have you got your Gen head yet Bob?

ajaffa1

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 12:39:02 PM »
Hey Glort, yes I met up with Stephen and took delivery in Grafton this morning. He was on his way to Cairns. What a very knowledgeable and pleasant man. He has retired due to health issues and asked how your Wife was going.

I haven`t had time to check out the genny head yet but will post some photos and info as soon as I get a break from doctors, lawyers and insurance companies. Got a terrible telling off from the Wife for physically picking it up on my own. She thought I was going to pop a cog. Not as young as I used to be, sadly still as stupid! :laugh:

Bob

broncodriver99

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 01:06:49 PM »
Good news is it is 120/240 single phase. Not 3 phase as was thought.

broncodriver99

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 01:14:52 PM »
Just did a little googling and 2 of the slip rings may be for a 12vdc battery charge winding.

broncodriver99

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2018, 01:26:15 PM »
I found these diagrams. Sorry about the quality.

mike90045

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 02:19:56 PM »
wow, looking at those schematics, I now remember why I got the ST head.


ajaffa1

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2018, 02:47:10 PM »
Hey Broncodriver99, having had a very quick look at your drawings, it would appear that not only does it have a charging circuit but I believe it also has a starting circuit built into the generator head. Why your photos show a separate starter motor is a mystery. If I am right then you have the perfect makings for a Start-o-matic setup.

I suspect that the ST2 and kohler head were not put together in the factory in Dursley but have been married together at a later date.

I think you may have hit the jackpot when it comes to options on this one. Time for me to go to bed, nearly midnight here and I`ve got a long trip in the morning. I`ll study the drawings when I get home and get back to you.

Bob

lastlaugh

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2018, 09:33:04 PM »
Thank you immensely to all who have replied!

I'm studying the diagrams now, but its been years since I've worked on any electric stuff, so Im relearning as I go. You all are helping alot.

I'm not sure what this motor and gen head are selling for normally, but I think I hit the jackpot even if the gen didnt work!

What do you all mean by a 12v battery charger and starter winding?


glort

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Re: Ok, now I'm confused
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2018, 01:56:25 AM »

As well as being a generator, the unit has the facility built in to be a starter motor for the engine as well.  The charging circuit is to  recharge the batter after a starting cycle.

Start o matics were a lister  product that would start automatically when a load was applied.  Normally connected to a house, Back long ago and generaly in remote areas, when everything was switched off the genny sat there idle.  Come in and turn on a light and the generator would automaticaly start. Instead of having a starter motor on the engine which many at the time had no provision for, the generator would turn the engine till it fired and then start generating power.

When said light was turned off and nothing in the home was requiring power, the genny shut itself down again.
Pretty much the holy Grail of gen sets.  Not sure there is anything available today that will do the same thing.

It appears the gen head you have has this very rare and desirable ability to work like a start o matic.