Author Topic: Finding an equivalent injector pump  (Read 672 times)

Boxelder

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Finding an equivalent injector pump
« on: August 03, 2018, 11:32:16 AM »
So on my recent road trip to Wichita to pick up those two LT1A's and four Lombardini 6LD260's, I noted that every one of the Lombardinis was missing some part of its injector pump.  This led me to believe I'd be able to find new or fix them.  Well, I'm striking out.  After trying every trick I can find, I've had no luck with the repairs.  Even after complete disassembly, including thorough cleaning and lubing the rack remains sticky, and the governor can't effectively move it.

Now I'm moving on to Option #2 - Replace the pump.  Problem is, the originals are rare as hen's teeth.  Nobody seems to have them, or I'm looking in the wrong places.  Even if I can find one I'm sure it'd be priced out of what I'm willing to spend on a "maybe fix".  I've seen several suggestions that these pumps are built to standards, and it should be easy to find an import clone of the original.  Can anyone please tell me how to find an equivalent pump for the 6LD260?

Thanks very much in advance.

In other news, one of the LT1's is fully operational after swapping the injector out of its 8600 hour brother!  Also, I made another road trip and picked up an original 1939 CS with SOM "kidney" flywheels and an original Lister SOM cast iron base.  On the same drive I brought home a Changfa 1115 with a 15kVa ST generator head driven via a Lovejoy coupling.  It's been said many times, but I'll say it again - this is a BEAST of a device.  I was honestly expecting a Briggs sized engine, but it's more like someone lopped off one cylinder of a Cummins truck engine and laid it down on its side.  When it fires up it's like a small earthquake.  Quite impressive.

So after seeing the raw awesomeness which is the 1115, I'm going to sell the 295 powered generator.  It works fine, but it doesn't have that "certain something" weirdness I find highly appealing in my toys.

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2934
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2018, 12:21:56 PM »

Maybe you were searching for the wrong title?
Took me about 3 sec to find one.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Pump-injection-engine-6LD325-326-260-LOMBARDINI-6590-136-6F-15-6590-55/252762706858?hash=item3ad9d4d3aa:g:v3MAAOSwtNFa-uh2

Also found a lot of spares for the pumps as well. Not sure why you had difficulty locating them as they seem to be plenty available.  Sometimes it's just the words or spelling you search for.

I have a 6LD325.  Rope start (NOT recoil) only but usually starts the first compression stroke even after sitting months in the weather... which it does not any more. Very solid and well built engine.  You do know of course that Lombardi and Ruggerini are now the same and share a LOT of their engines.

My favourite are the Horizontal Cylinder jobs. I'd sure love a 1115, or bigger... or smaller too! I'd take any of them! They are very heavy built like a lister but you do get a lot more HP for the weight. And  speed. And noise  BUT... they are great engines, last well and are easy to rebuild with spares being available from endless suppliers. Put a lot of hours on my little  3.5 which outpulls every 5 and 6 HP I have with ease, including the roid on veg oil. Did try engine oil once and it seemed to be clagging up but I pulled the head not long after and saw no evidence of that ever happening so perhaps it was my paranoia.  Thing was ridiculously clean inside. If I had been shown a pic with someone else saying, " Look how clean my engine is inside" I would  have called BS and said they polished the piston crown with a rag.  I still could not offer explanation how the thing got that clean even with the bit of WI I gave it.  Still has to combust fuel in there.

You sound as nutty as I am with engines. Can't resist one going cheap and close even if I already have 5 the same.   :-[
Think I'm going to start rationalizing them though. Taking up too much room and too many projects on the go.  It is nice to have a variety of them though.

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 744
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2018, 12:54:23 PM »
Hey BE...

A quick one.....

Marking blue in a spray can....

Spray onto the racks and look for high spots .... apply emery tape/file/polish/elbow grease or hammer to smooth them out...

Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

Boxelder

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2018, 01:50:33 PM »
Thanks guys.  I've found them on Ebay, but they're invariably in another country.  If possible I'd like to find one in El Norte America.

There's a video on YouTube of a guy that has one which looks as if it's got an aftermarket pump, and I'd really like to find his source.  He's gone to ground though and isn't responding to his video comments.  If I could get mine firing up like his I'd sure be one happy camper!  Mine will fire right up on ether, but dies immediately after I stop giving 'er the sauce.  I took the side cover off looking for other issues, and all I can come up with is that the rack is just too "gritty" to move freely.  The devil of the thing is that the ground parts move extremely freely until they're put back together, at which point the tension from the spring seems to bind them up.  Even moving around the spring keeper a little bit affects the grittiness and freedom of movement of the rack.  I'm honestly fed up with fiddling with it, and just want to try a brand new Chinese unit if I can find one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJtZlJHst8w&ab_channel=rondotrailer

In other news, my new-to-me 1959 Monarch Model 60 lathe is giving me fits.  It only cuts left hand threads, and there's no lever where the leadscrew reverse handle is supposed to be.  I feel like a damned idiot that I can't figure it out, but I have admitted my sins to Steve, the service manager at the still-extant Monarch.  Hopefully he'll hand me the easy solution so life can move on...  I'm trying to cut some straight 11.5 tpi threads for the CS cooling ports.  NPT would work, but it wouldn't be absolutely correct for the job, and I'm trying to keep it as close to original as possible.

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1805
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2018, 02:04:08 PM »
I am not aware of a source for those pumps or parts stateside. Dealing internationally on Ebay is pretty painless when the seller is OK with shipping world wide and your dealing with small packages that can go airfreight such as those injector pumps. I buy all of my Yanmar L series parts that way. Just got in 50 fuel injectors for the L70s this week as quick and painless as if they had come from the west coast.
I do suggest that you use an online currency exchange calculator  just so you know about what you will be paying, Then click buy i tnow and Paypal will do everything for you. They do get a bit for exchanging the currencies but it is not exorbitant. Have the seller claim the parts as antique engine parts and there will be little to no duty on them and always ship via air mail.

Congrats on the 6/1 and base and the 1115. I too am a fan of both. The drive couplings if OEM Chinese have issues,nothing that cant be solved with the correct size Lovejoy and a spare element or two.

I ran two different 60 series  Monarchs and both of them had a reverse lever on the right side of the saddle that reversed both the power feed and the lead screw? Cant help you there.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 02:19:08 PM by 38ac »
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

Boxelder

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2018, 03:15:17 PM »
Thanks 38, I'm anxiously waiting on a response from the Monarch dude.  The lathe came from NASA/Redstone Arsenal, so it's entirely possible they stole the handle and used it on the Mars rover or blasted it to Venus or something.  What's getting me is that it looks like there was never anything installed on that position in the first place, there's ancient grease evenly covering the plate and the shaft is perfectly flush with the flange.  It's as if the handle were never installed.  So I'm missing or misinterpreting what's going on somewhere here.  I'll report back when Steve gets back to me.

And yes, I'm entirely guilty of trying to cheap out on the pump solution.  I'm not even sure if that's the issue, although I'm pretty certain.  The gamble of over a hundred greenbacks to check my pump theory is approaching "not worth it" territory considering I only paid $300 for all six engines and already have a fully functioning LT1A.

I'm thrilled to have joined the CS club, and also to have an 1115.  They're both fantastic pieces of kit.  I'm planning on adding an ST head to the CS.  Gotta contact Central Georgia Generator today and see what a 5kVa ST head is running nowadays.

Boxelder

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2018, 03:27:00 PM »
Just heard back from Monarch.  Apparently my particular machine has a reversing handle on the side of the apron.  I'd been messing around with all the handles for quite some time, using every possible combination of lever positions, and haven't been able to make it do anything at all.  I must either be missing something or there's a mechanical issue somewhere.  Steve sent me the instructions so I'll pore over them and figure out which it is.

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1805
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2018, 04:17:38 PM »
Not sure if this will come out readable or not. This machine is similar to what I have run. #18 on the diagram
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1805
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2018, 04:22:26 PM »
The gamble of over a hundred greenbacks to check my pump theory is approaching "not worth it" territory considering I only paid $300 for all six engines and already have a fully functioning LT1A.


The low end of the market is not always the the cheapest route to a running engine at least for me. I am not one with the patience to have a project sitting around for years waiting for somebody to have a $300 part for $15 but that is me and not judging you for buying them ;)
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

Boxelder

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2018, 07:21:10 PM »
Heh.  Yeah I completely understand about the injectors.  I'm being unrealistic, but it's hard to spend the extra cheddar when you aren't sure if it's actually the underlying problem.  I'm not a diesel engine mechanic by any stretch, I just enjoy tinkering with them.

Thanks for the picture, it is indeed almost that exact model.  The page Steve sent me really helped, and I solved the issue.  Apparently mine is a rare-ish "toolmaker" model 60, which has those threading handles I was telling you about.  It works by having the handle on the apron engage the leadscrew forward and reverse, making threading operations easier.  There are two automatic stop collars on the handle spindle, one on the headstock side and one on the tailstock side.  These were both extended to their limits and clamped down on their stops, preventing any motion of the handle.  I loosened them and gave it some slack, and lo and behold, it works like a charm!  All it took was making myself look a bit of an idiot on here and to the Monarch Man, a small price to pay for lifelong return on investment. ;)

Really appreciate your input, I'll ponder the options and continue to research online.

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1805
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2018, 07:40:18 PM »
Hey, never a thought like idiot crossed my mind. Those old Monarchs rank right up there with the best. My only issues with them are tooslow RPMs for carbide and small spindle holes. I have a 19x60 Colchester copy made in Bulgaria.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

Boxelder

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2018, 10:03:46 PM »
Before my recent diesel obsession, my last "problem hobby" was collecting old shop equipment.  I have the Model 60 as well as two 10EE's, and one of those needs to go.  I also have an original Hardinge HLV (not HLV-H) in need of a new owner, as it needs restoration and I have a 16-month old now.  My time to do such things is no longer unlimited.

The model 60 came to me via a government auction.  Snagged it for $850.  Also one of the 10EE's came from that same auction.

At some point I'd like to find an old USSR lathe and give it a try.  It'd be super interesting to see how the Russians did things.  Probably overly beefy and built to be repaired in dire circumstances is my guess.

Gary at DES is sending me a fuel tank and associated hardware to connect to the M18x1.5mm banjo fitting on the fuel pump.  Can't wait to get her up and running!  I'm also ready to do a thorough cooling jacket de-rusting with muriatic acid.  A 25% solution is recommended for de-rusting the Changfa in the manual, so I figure it should work on the CS as well.  It's pretty gnarly in there.

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1368
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: Finding an equivalent injector pump
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2018, 11:11:39 PM »

.... Rope start (NOT recoil) .....

I remember winding the rope around the drum (with a notch for the knot) and pulling, rewinding, pulling....