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Author Topic: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2  (Read 2701 times)

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #120 on: October 28, 2018, 09:15:02 PM »
Hi Everyone

One Sunday afternoon continuing the 12/2 restoration:

Withdraw the remaining studes - it took some imagination! but not even the stubborn ones were hypothesized.

Remove some more rust and limestone in water jackets... with special tools!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 10:02:31 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #121 on: October 28, 2018, 09:16:09 PM »
Soften the pistons ...
Bernard 18A - 1968

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2018, 09:18:33 PM »
Measuring clearances:

Left Piston: Skirt - 0.10mm (0.0039 ") Head 0.20mm (0.0078").
Right Piston: Skirt - 0.10mm (0.0039 ") Head 0.25mm (0.0098").

I think these measurements are within the normal parameters...
Bernard 18A - 1968

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #123 on: October 28, 2018, 09:21:37 PM »
One last question - I ask the opinion of the forum - is this "callus" of the pistons in the opposite side of the valves is normal? see figure.

Good weak
VP
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 10:21:40 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968

ajaffa1

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #124 on: October 28, 2018, 09:35:01 PM »
Hi Pedrosa, I have two questions. The first is: what position are they stuck in, where the COV handles screwed in as for starting or out as for running? The reason I ask this is that it is a lot easier to free up a stuck plug by driving it in rather than trying to pull it out.

My second question is why do you want to pull them out? I think that the first run of your engine will probably free them, a mixture of heat and the shock wave from fuel detonating.

In my case the entire COV assembly has had to be replaced as the threads were damaged. I also made up a puller to remove the old plug, destroying it in the process.

DEV Precision, in India make new COV assemblies they would probably just sell you the plugs if you asked nicely. Alternatively ask your local machine shop to make you a pair, they are only made of mild steel and could be turned up on a lathe in ten minutes.

Bob

ajaffa1

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #125 on: October 28, 2018, 09:42:02 PM »
Hi Pedrosa, wear above the top piston ring is very common, it is generally caused by a build up of carbon and is usually accompanied by wear in the top of the cylinders. A lot of people now use water injection to prevent these carbon deposits from building up.

Bob

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #126 on: October 28, 2018, 10:01:27 PM »
Hi Bob

Nice to hear from you.

1) COV's are not stuck, just only the main plug, the other parts are out souking to be cleaned.

2) and was (is) just to clean it thoroughly, as all parts.

Explain more that "water injection to prevent these carbon deposits from building up"

Cheers
VP

PS: things are going well, but i'll order parts only when all disassembly is done. (Postage truly expensive!)

« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 10:22:40 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968

mike90045

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #127 on: October 28, 2018, 10:35:47 PM »
....
Explain more that "water injection to prevent these carbon deposits from building up"

take your basic spray bottle , and fill it with water or 50/50 water alcohol, and with the engine
running under a load, and thoroughly warmed up, start spraying a spritz of water into the intake pipe
(not just into the air cleaner, where it will ruin the paper element) but past the element, and right down the intake.
I give a squirt every 3rd or 4th power stroke, and amazingly, it just flashes into steam, cleans the cylinder, and blows the crud out.   Some folks rig up a dripper, some use a metering pump.
 Used to be used in airplanes to control detonation in piston engines, and was found to have a good cleaning effect too.   There's a load of posts here about all the different ways and flow rates people use.

ajaffa1

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #128 on: October 28, 2018, 10:42:16 PM »
Hi Pedrosa, sorry I haven`t posted much recently. My Wife`s father has had a stroke and was expected to die. I am very pleased to say that he is now recovering well.  :)

If you do a search on the forum you will find a lot of information on water injection. Some clever people have fitted venturie pipes in to their inlet manifolds others use gravity fed systems. The important thing with water injection is that it is only used in a hot running engine and that it is turned off before shutting down. You do not want water standing in your cylinders. You can also manually do this by pouring a small amount of water into the inlets, if you put in too much the engine will start to bog down. It works equally well with petrol engines. The water turns to steam and lifts all the crap out of the engine and blows it out of the exhaust.

Glort is a huge exponent of water injection and has a water pump in his diesel car, running on waste vegetable oil, he also sometimes adds ethanol or methanol which gives him a bit of a power boost. He swears that it improves engine performance and longevity.

Bob

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #129 on: October 29, 2018, 10:42:41 PM »
Greattings

Cart is finished, lets see if it manage...

Measuring ring clearence:

Cylinder nš 1 (rgt)
ring nš                TDC                              BDC
1 ---------- 1,55mm (0.0610") ---- 1,30mm (0.0511") ---- width 3,85mm (0.1515") ---- thickness [3,10mm (0.1220") outer lip] > {3,05mm inner lip}
2 ---------- 0,95mm (0.0374") ---- 0,85mm (0.0334") ---- width 3,90mm (0.1535") ---- thickness 3,12~mm (0.1228")
3 ---------- 0,95mm (0.0374") ---- 0,90mm (0.0354")
4 ---------- 0,85mm (0.0334") ---- 0,80mm (0.0314")
oil --------- 1,15mm (0.0452") ---- 1,10mm (0.0433")

Bob and 38ac - opinion requested please!

Cheers
VP

« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 01:39:56 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #130 on: November 03, 2018, 01:26:32 PM »
Hi Everyone

Finally the first project is finished (only the throttle spring was missing), and rocking and rolling.

Bernard 18A - 1968, with the original color of clay brick.
(the water pump could not be saved, I put a polye)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eA4kiglnbFnQm2-qBeP_xpLKRZGzJNBo/view?usp=sharing

Nice weekend
VP
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 01:36:29 PM by sirpedrosa »
Bernard 18A - 1968

38ac

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #131 on: November 07, 2018, 03:10:15 PM »
Several observations form you last few posts.  Measuring piston to cylinder clearance when measured at the bottom of the bore is almost worthless as for discerning the condition. In all but the most worn and abused examples the great bulk of wear occurs at the very top top of the top ring travel in the cylinder and the top ring lands of the piston. Your piston ring end gap figures do indeed provide some good information to go with if  I can assume when you were measuring the top ring end gaps at the top of where they travel and NOT at the top of the cylinder? If you measured at the top of the cylinder the information is worthless.

Assuming you measured the ring end gaps at the correct place in the cylinder my ready math,  which is diameter = circumference divided by 3 you have about .003 wear in that cylinder.   That cylinder  is OK  to use. Top ring side clearance is also important.New spec is around .001" If you have more than .005 you need pistons IMO. Also all those end gaps are excessive, I assume they are used rings? Once more I apologize as I dont read every post on the threads.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

sirpedrosa

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #132 on: November 08, 2018, 11:37:57 AM »
Thank you 38ac

Yes, the clearances were measured at the location where each ring stays on the TDC.
The rings are the ones that were in service.
It means that - with these clearances - new rings should be installed. Right?
Bernard 18A - 1968

38ac

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #133 on: November 08, 2018, 11:50:53 AM »
If there are no other problems with the pistons you can reuse them. New rings are in order.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

ajaffa1

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Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Reply #134 on: November 08, 2018, 09:40:25 PM »
Hi Pedrosa, be careful when ordering new piston rings. Hard chrome plated cylinder bores require soft piston rings. Some Listeroid engines have cast iron cylinder bores and require hard piston rings, others have steel sleeves and require  intermediate rings. Please make it clear to your supplier that you have hard chrome cylinders.

Bob