Author Topic: More engine questions  (Read 1512 times)

38ac

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2018, 12:21:09 PM »
Lumping all Briggs engines into a lot and calling them good or rubbish is the same as lumping the finest wine with the  $4 a bottle garbage they sell for whinos and calling wine either good or all bad based solely upon experience with one of the two.
 The Briggs engines built to a price are certainly pure rubbish. Built to last long enough for the buyer to get tired of trying to get it started and throwing the engine and the device attached to it in the closest dumpster. 30 years ago a cheapo 20" push mower with a B&S engine cost $100, today the same mower is $125 and we have 20 hour engines on them with plastic camshafts. Briggs now advertises their cheapo lawnmower line as "never change the oil" Take a wild guess on how long they expect them to last but that's what the uninformed wish to buy and products get built for them to waste their money on. Briggs also builds, (actually re-badges) a decent quality engine in the Vangards I have two of them and they have been stellar.  The old flat head Briggs were mostly OK but who can afford the fuel they guzzle as compared to today's overhead valve engines??? We have a few around doing odd jobs with very low usage, certainly not on a generator set standby or otherwise. 
My Peterson Sawmill has a 9HP Honda on it and it has been a 14ct pain in the arse with constant problems,it is about to get the dumpster and replaced with a L100 Yanmar.
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Johndoh

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2018, 12:44:31 PM »
I know the flat heads aren't as economical as some modern engines however I had a couple of Honda powered generators and they were thirsty buggers too. The power seldom goes here any more so most people don't have a generator. Most people have oil central heating they don't even have matches or a lighter to spark up a lamp or candle during a power cut. I have a Lister SL1 I'm currently 300 odd into parts for it and I still need a leisure battery and a sine wave inverter that would add another 400 and it will be able to produce maybe 900 watts. Thats a lot of petrol in the little Briggs!
Americans do some things very well including but not limited to V8 engines, pump action shotguns, corn whiskey and those little side valve  engines. I accept I have a bias towards the whiskey and the engines!
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glort

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2018, 01:02:42 PM »

Briggs also builds, (actually re-badges) a decent quality engine in the Vangards I have two of them and they have been stellar.

So the Briggs engines are crap.

Who BUILDS the good ones?

I have got a JD mower and my yard vac with Kohlers on them.  Experience with them is limited to a few hours so far but they run VERY smooth. No problems starting, run clean and have reasonable power.  As the gear they are on is well used, I don't think they are particularly fresh engines. No experience with Kohlers other than this and never worked on any so see how they pan out.

Did have a couple of Techmseh's many years back and they seemed like garbage too. I have no idea what became of them. Haven't seen them in years.
Probably went up the back and got left there when I moved.  Would have been fitting, had 2 of them and I couldn't get either to run reliably.
I know why they guy I bought them off said they had minimal hours but he'd replaced them with something else.

I'd still rather a China Honda clone than about anything else now in petrol.  Diesels seem to be much better over all with OEM's.
I have a Hatz, Ruggerinis, lombardinis, and a yanmar and they all seem great engines. Would like a Little Multi cyl water cooled Kubota.  They are great little engines just to look at as well as work.  :laugh:

As far as economy goes, from the specs I have seen on little petrol engines, there isn't much difference.

I think you are right about the Petrol Vs Diesel cost.  Time you Buy/ fix a diesel, you can probably buy enough petrol to wear the average SI engine out.
If it's intermittent use like a generator, paying full tilt for a Diesel makes no sense.
Bit like the LED light bulbs I was buying the other week. To change over all the outdoor lights on the verandah to LED would cost more than the power the incandecents would use for the amount we use them in the next 20 years. And I won't be here then!

I have seen Fuel Injected 6 Hp stationary engines advertised now. Claim is they are 30% more fuel efficient than carb engines which wouldn't be hard to believe.  Given they are about 3 times the cost of the carb version, again one would have to ask is it cheaper to pay the extra for the more economical engine or am I going to be better off in the long run just putting the $400 savings for the standard engine towards the bit of extra fuel they use?

Sometimes inefficient is actually the cheapest.

38ac

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2018, 02:25:04 PM »
Dunno who builds the Vangards, I read or heard that they are Italian made, Briggs may not build any engines these days?  They say Briggs on the shrouds so it makes things easy to just call them that.  Kohler is doing the same thing  selling a Honda clone made somewhere in Asia with the Kohler name stuck  on it.

The K Kohlers were very good, rebuilding them helps keep the bills paid in my shop but they are getting quite dated. Within a couple hundred hours the fuel usage differences causes the economics to favor junking the K Kohler and using a Honda clone but some diehards like to stick with old  reliable quality.  I have a Kohler factory set with a K161 and Kohler head. Starts on pull #1 every time, makes lots of noise and uses lots of fuel but I keep it around and use it a bit just because.

Agree about the China Honda clones. Most are OK, a few are junk. Good thing is the junk settles out quickly and all we have to do is keep out Harbor Freight  receipt, take the junk back and demand another one to replace it.

I am getting more and more comfortable with the Yanmar L series diesels. Cant afford new ones but our military surplussed a BUNCH of them over the last few years and I pick through them looking for cherries. They are becoming my favored engine around the farm mostly due to the fact they can sit for a year and start instantly due to not having to deal with rotten bio gas  we are forced to use.  I certainly would not want to have one of them running a gen head at 3600 RPM anywhere near the house, that's for sure.
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broncodriver99

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2018, 02:30:20 PM »
So the Briggs engines are crap.

Who BUILDS the good ones?

I can't remember who makes them, it is more a partnership than a rebadge. All of the Vanguards I have seen were made in Japan though.

I have got a JD mower and my yard vac with Kohlers on them.  Experience with them is limited to a few hours so far but they run VERY smooth. No problems starting, run clean and have reasonable power.  As the gear they are on is well used, I don't think they are particularly fresh engines. No experience with Kohlers other than this and never worked on any so see how they pan out.

Kohler's are in a whole different class from Briggs and Tecumseh. They are the "heavy duty" engines. They have always been very well made and one pays a premium for them here in the US. They do have a cheaper line of engines out now aimed at competing with the import stuff that has had a few issues.

Did have a couple of Techmseh's many years back and they seemed like garbage too. I have no idea what became of them. Haven't seen them in years.

Tecumseh's have been junk for a long time. I think they went downhill sometime in the '70's.

Honestly , in the power equipment world in the US Kawasaki has taken over. They have been slowly gaining market share for the last 20 years. They make a very good product that has held up to the abuse of commercial landscape crews. Some of them are made in Japan and some are made here in the US. They and Kohler seem to battle for king of the hill these days.

38ac

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2018, 02:53:05 PM »


Honestly , in the power equipment world in the US Kawasaki has taken over. They have been slowly gaining market share for the last 20 years. They make a very good product that has held up to the abuse of commercial landscape crews. Some of them are made in Japan and some are made here in the US. They and Kohler seem to battle for king of the hill these days.

We have a Wheel Horse with a 20HP liquid cooled Kaw and it has been very good. I noticed that lots of the Z-turn manufacturers have been switching to them.
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Johndoh

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2018, 03:18:45 PM »
My brother has a small camping generator about 1.2 KW I think it has an Onan alternator it has a Tecumseh engine he thinks its the best thing since sliced bread. I think it's 50's or 60's
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LowGear

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2018, 12:50:01 AM »
I've got a sinus headache so my reading is even down from the normal (for me).  So if it's already been covered I apologize.  Isn't it Toyota that is messing around with part time gasoline compression ignition in one of their new models?
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glort

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2018, 06:00:35 AM »

Never heard of "Part time gasoline Compression ignition"  so I looked up on google.
Apparently they haven't heard of it either  ::)

cobbadog

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2018, 07:11:43 AM »
Back to the original part on TVO (Tractor Vapourising Oil). We have a David Brown Cropmaster 30C tractor and is a TVO engine. As already discussed kero is way too expensive to buy and use so I always run it on Premium unleaded petrol. For no other reason than better mileage and performance (for want of another term) running on petrol all the time in all weather conditions from the cool 10'C through to the mid 30'c there has never been an issue of fuel vapourising on the tractor and causing any loss of power or over heating. Mixing diesel is something i would never do as explained it is the wrong component to use as a blended fuel for a petrol engine. We drive our 2 seater tractor on Tractor Treks and these can go all day with no issues ever running straight petrol.
As for B&S engines they should be branded BS engines as that is the best description I can think of them now they have degraded the makings of the engine. Alloy bores just dont work in this situation and then you have the country of origin issues. If you find the codes on the cowl of the BS engine, write them down and go to the B&S site and decipher the codes. It will tell you everything you want to know, date of manufacture and country of origin.
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Johndoh

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2018, 07:55:29 AM »
I've got a sinus headache so my reading is even down from the normal (for me).  So if it's already been covered I apologize.  Isn't it Toyota that is messing around with part time gasoline compression ignition in one of their new models?
https://www.wired.com/story/mazda-injection-compression-skyactivx-engine/
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mikenash

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2018, 07:58:10 AM »

Never heard of "Part time gasoline Compression ignition"  so I looked up on google.
Apparently they haven't heard of it either  ::)

Bruce is right of course:

Experimental petrol diesel unit here:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a19909520/gas-diesel-engine-reactivity-controlled-compression-ignition/

and Mazda Compression-and-spark ignition petrol engine here

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/mazda-compression-ignition-technology/

The big story isn't the fuel, it's the efficiency - claimed 60% fuel energy used as "drive" as opposed to (something like) normal 40%

cobbadog

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Re: More engine questions
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2018, 06:39:16 AM »
Another form of fuel saving is from the past too. Have a look at engines described as Hit n Miss. I have a couple of them one air cooled the other is hopper cooled but the theory of them is not to be firing all the time. they use the inertia of flywheel/s to keep the momentum going and only firing once the governor is opened because it is running a bit slow. Not ideal for a car but as stationary engines they are unbeatable.
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