Author Topic: Changes to Energy Generation  (Read 933 times)

LowGear

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Changes to Energy Generation
« on: June 24, 2018, 07:18:55 PM »
I watched a neat article on YouTube today.  I do enjoy Robert Llewellyn and his Fully Charged series.  This one dropped a small $80 Billion bomb about 2/3s way through.  Older oil and gas rigs in the North Sea are being pulled out.  The current crop is going to cost eighty billion dollars just for removal.  How can Shell or Exon afford to do this?  They don't.  The people of the United Kingdom are.  Please don't bitch about electric car subsidies out loud to me ever again.  Oops, that should be 80 billion UK pounds; not USD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYr7aGf0-wA
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 07:31:48 PM by LowGear »
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mikenash

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2018, 12:27:21 AM »


Gee.  $160 billion of our little wee $NZ dollars.  Our GDP last year was $NZ 186 billion lol

You guys oughta come live down here in NZ.  It's nice

Most recent stats show we have enough extra generation capacity - small hydro/wind/geothermal - already in the consent stages to cover the electricity requirement of a national fleet of electric vehicles, even if the uptake is faster than is anticipated

A fascinating topic IMHO

Cheers

LowGear

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2018, 06:46:11 AM »
I've never heard a bad thing about New Zealand.  I sailed from Vancouver, British Columbia to Hawaii on the Capt. Cook replica Endeavour that was built in New Zealand.  We had regular crew made up of British, Australian and New Zealanders.  I thanked God most mornings the cook was from New Zealand.  Without her we just might of Captain Bly-ed the Captain from Australia.  The Cat V8 diesel on the 20th century deck was pretty handy too.  21 days in a ship that had a broader bow than stern.

Oops; It's positioned really handy to the 40th latitude.  I'm very hooked on the tropical temperatures especially during the Winter if there still is such a thing. 

Of course now that the lesson has been set I assume the wind turbine people will just walk away from the structures as the oil people have their rigs.  The world will be powered by dilithium crystals by that time.   ;)
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glort

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2018, 07:37:02 AM »


You guys oughta come live down here in NZ.  It's nice


Yes, it is nice. Don't know I could live there but I have been asked to go back at the end of the year to do a job. Undecided as yet.  Wife and daughter want to go back. I'm not so fussed about going anywhere.
maybe I might try to do some homework and find out about shitting some toys back to OZ. 
If that was viable, might make the trip more appealing.

LowGear

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2018, 10:26:17 AM »
Yup!  He's Aussie.

So glort.  What do you think of the 80 billion British gubberment pounds to clean up after the oil industry again?  Is this a subsity or ?
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glort

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2018, 11:27:11 AM »


What do you think of the 80 billion British gubberment pounds to clean up after the oil industry again?  Is this a subsity or ?

What do I think?

I think people like you who are forever bitching about oil and coal but then use the products and convenience they provide are complete and utter hypocrites. 

Hopefully you can read that much without loosing comprehension and can get that far in my reply.
I think if people like yourself are so against fossil fuels and think they are such a detriment to the planet you are so concerned about protecting, you should not condone them by buying anything made from them. Like petrol, oil or gas... Propaaane as you call it.  You should have nothing made of plastic either or anything from the long list of other products. You should be growing your own food and not buying anything commercially farmed because the fertilizer used on farms comes from oil as well.   You should be 100% off grid because the power where you are is supplied from oil.

If you want oil/coal to be done away with, you better start weaning yourself off everything it provides.

As for the removal of the platforms, that's Old news.  Might be a revelation for you but it's not something that just happened today.
I don't know or care enough about it to have any position on it.
Who says it's a Clean up?  The bleating green washed media and their forever whining sheeple followers?  That would make sense.

I don't know the source of the money or what other arrangements have been made or why.  Might be some employment based deal. I'll guarantee there is a lot more to it than the greenwashed media will make out or have the guts to admit.
I also wonder over the years, how much the oil industry has paid in taxes and contributed to the British economy?

Why are you aggrieved by it anyway? Not like it affects you, perhaps it's just something to latch onto in order push your greenwashed proclivity's?

I'd be willing to bet though that just like your own spin doctoring of the question, the green washed have without a single doubt,  maligned the REAL situation, blown it out of proportion and the truth will be nothing like the crap they ALWAYS go on with to suit their own agendas.
When you get beyond the headlines, it's NEVER what the green whingers make it out to be. EVER. 

If anything comes from green based media, You know it is the biggest load of garbage and complete and utter lies that the greenwashed disciples will follow without question.

ajaffa1

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2018, 12:34:27 PM »






I think people like you who are forever bitching about oil and coal but then use the products and convenience they provide are complete and utter hypocrites.

I`m with Glort on this one, I`m tired of being lectured about the planet destroying effects of oil/coal/gas/nuclear. We all rely on these products to heat our homes, feed us, cloth us and transport us.

If anyone here wants to go back to a pre-industrial  existence please feel free to do so, you won`t be able to post on this forum or any other because computers, smart phones and internet access all depend on fossil fuels.

I think we should all be concentrating on reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and other finite resources and finding better ways to fuel our extravagant lifestyles. The very least we should be doing is trying to cut back on our consumption and the waste we produce.

As for the cost of decommissioning oil rigs and etc. if it costs the British tax payer 80 billion who cares. The government in the UK have had far more than that in tax revenues  from taxing fossil fuels. Sadly they squandered that money on everything except finding alternative energy solutions.  I am so glad I no longer live on that overcrowded and badly governed island. When I left the national debt had risen to close to 200,000 for every man, woman and child. I guess the government will just have to borrow another ship full of money from the Chinese. The next generations will inherit the debt and suffer the consequences.

Bob


glort

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 01:18:22 PM »
Quote
I think we should all be concentrating on reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and other finite resources and finding better ways to fuel our extravagant lifestyles. The very least we should be doing is trying to cut back on our consumption and the waste we produce.

EXACTLY!

It makes me laugh as the resident anti green outcast on most forums I am on, I know I do a hell of a lot more than most who are pro green to achieve their stated goals.

There are not many out there that have used renewable fuel the last 15 years. There aren't a lot of people who have as much solar as I have invested in and  with the exception of the off gridders, live a modern lifestyle and use as little grid power. We recycle all the water we use. I have 10K L of rain water storage. I have a lot of old things I keep going, even my solar panels which most of should have been discarded well before their life end. My mower is 30 yo, my main fridge is older, this computer is 12 yo, my phone is a hand me down. I get the most out of things I have. Only thing I can think of that I have upgraded in recent times before it failed was some camera gear because I cannot afford to have it fail on a job.  That said, the old stuff is now at double the normal life expectancy so I got the most out of that anyway. .

I have been on these alternative energy forums where they think alternative HAS to mean greenwashed.  They bitch at me if I say I burn oil in my vehicle and carry on like there are plumes of toxic smoke coming out the thing without even knowing or understanding I'm using one of their ordained renewable fuels.
When you get into it a bit like I did with a guy the other week who is on the board of a green association here, My foot print isn't even a baby step compared to his. This Hypocrite is still driving a lumbering new petrol SUV with the fuel consumption of a 747. He has all of 2 KW of panels on his roof and a solar hot water heater. He uses reusable shopping bags, recycles his rubbish and thinks he's saving the whole world.

Then goes on at me for using air conditioning while he uses a wood fire.  I'm not against combustion stoves but if you are going to start pointing the finger, get your own house in order first, literally. My AC don't put out smoke and haze up a suburban neighbourhood. I'm thinking of putting one of these in for next winter but at least I'm in a far more open area where the smoke will get away.

Mrs and I went shopping a few months back for a new fridge. I told one guy quietly and up close, you want to have a hope in hell of selling me anything, you will not mention this energy consumption co2 bullshit again. I get tired of being guilt tripped with it all the damn time!
Like on the power bill " You generated 10,000 tons of Co2.
I  don't   give  a  rats   arse!
 Co2 makes plants grow, that's why commercial greenhouses put extra co2 in the grow houses so the plants flourish. Whats the damn problem??  ;D

I like my luxuries. I have had Jack shit till the last few years and I want to make the years I have left comfortable for my family and I.  I will run My ac to stay cool or warm, I will leave my LED lights on out the front for the mrs to come home to, I will take long showers from my resistance heated water and I -HAVE- invested in enough solar to reduce my consumption from the grid to below that of a great majority of people.
My power bill tells me so.

Probably not this quarter,  but every other quarter since being here my average consumption for the 3 of us is about 75% of the average of single person house hold. If I was allowed by these supposedly environmentally concerned gubermints and power companies, I could be 100% self sufficent ND I'd even be happy to give back some extra I don't need. As it is I'm not supposed to do that and I have to turn off the solar so I don't give back more than I generate.

I'm not wanting medals for what I do,  saving the planet is not a motivation for me although it is a nice side effect of being a tight arse.
 I'm just sick to death of being berated for as you say, not wanting to live like a cave man and uphold the completely flawed and hypocritical agenda's of others.

The thing is, I'm hearing the same from a lot of people when they bring the topic up. I think the green brow beating is getting/ got to the point where it's getting counter productive. people are getting sick of it being rammed down their throats every 5 Min and are just switching off to it especially when they see so much waste and hypocrisy around them every day. 

LowGear

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2018, 06:19:34 PM »
I wonder who has the largest collection of solar panels in the LEF membership?   ::)

Are government mandates always wrong.  Like polio vaccinations?  Leaded gasoline?  Ethanol gasoline - Oops.

Did you know that Neanderthals actually had larger brains than modern man? 
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AdeV

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2018, 09:22:38 PM »
Are government mandates always wrong.

Pretty much, yes.

Did you know that Neanderthals actually had larger brains than modern man?

Yeah, but they never invented the V8. So that's 1-0 to modern man, I think you'll find.
Cheers!
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LowGear

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2018, 09:48:06 PM »
That's two for AdeV.

Gossip has it that we screwed them out of existence.  Biblically speaking.

I had a revelation while pulling weeds this morning and it was inspired by ajaffa1's post.

I have become somewhat of a bore on anti petroleum and coal energy production.  I apologize.  This is my favorite forum and I will be getting back to basics from now on no matter how much I'm baited (see, I'm the victim).  Thanks for your time and energy.

Aloha
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 09:58:58 PM by LowGear »
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Johndoh

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2018, 10:04:32 PM »
I wonder who has the largest collection of solar panels in the LEF membership?   ::)

Are government mandates always wrong.  Like polio vaccinations?  Leaded gasoline?  Ethanol gasoline - Oops.

Did you know that Neanderthals actually had larger brains than modern man?

Some of the people I encounter seem to have very small brains indeed. I went to cut my mates grass this evening he had a plastic barrel cut lengthwise and he was using it to burn rubbish. I pointed out it was plastic and he said I know but I have a saucepan full of water if it catches fire. Darwin award candidate
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

ajaffa1

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2018, 10:53:41 PM »
Hi Guys, The point I was trying to make about green issues is this: we can`t put the fossil fuel genie back in the bottle. What we can do is be more efficient in how we use it.  By all means install solar panels and other home generation systems and for all our sakes insulate your home.

If you wish to reduce your carbon footprint, good for you and good for the planet but most of all good for the hip pocket. I for one resent the amount of money I have to pay for electricity/petrol/diesel, anything I can do to reduce this expenditure is good for me, good for the environment and flicks the bird to greedy corporations/governments.

Being as tight arsed as possible is the one thing we can all do to protect the future. Restoring an old engine, which will last you a lifetime, has got to be better than buying a brand new modern piece of crap that will only last until the guarantee expires.

Bob

glort

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2018, 01:28:22 AM »

I wonder who has the largest collection of solar panels in the LEF membership?   ::)

I don't know but I''d bet my arse it's NOT one of the people that's forever whining about Coal, oil and wanting to do away with fossil fuels tomorrow.
That's the thing with a lot of these green types. Never fking happy. They whinge and whine about everyone being green and then beighthe Hypocrites they are, still whinge when someone is meeting their objectives but not for the right reasons they believe in.

Only one correct way to think for these people.   ::)

I don't think anyone is against renewables, clean energy and all that, what I am against in the single minded mentality that it all has to be done today rather than a gradual implemtntation as technology, finances and infrastructure building allows.  For the green washed, a gradual introduction for a seamless transition is no good. We have to stop using all fossil fuel today so we can claim to be green, even thoug all the lights go out in a fortnights time when it comes over cloudy with no wind.  It's the one track objective with no thought to consequences that pisses me off and that very thing has been proven here.

He had a whole green obsessed state go into complete darkness TWICE and there have been rolling area blackouts since they blew up their coal fired power stations. Luckily they have woken up to their mistae and taken steps to ensure it does not happen again.... by installing DIESEL  generators that suck down 2 Tanker loads of fuel per HOUR. That's 80,000L .

Yeah, typical greenwashed mentality at work there.  get rid of the coal fired power stations, realise You stuffed up and then put in Diesel generation to replace the terrible coal fired plant. 
Green genius that is.

Of Course being the traitor to the planet I am, I would have said OK, lets put in more solar and wind and see how we go. We can turn the coal stations right down when they are working and have them as standby if there is a problem.  We'll save 55% of emissions doing that and as we put more generation in and work out the storage problem, we can improve as we go till we get it down to nothing in maybe 10-20 years.

But WTF would I know?  Have to get rid of all fossil fuels today and if everything grinds to a halt tomorrow we can pat ourselves on the back we have made a totally and utterly meaningless contribution to reducing emissions and the world air quality will be exactly....... No better off what so ever.

Quote
Are government mandates always wrong.  Like polio vaccinations?  Leaded gasoline?  Ethanol gasoline - Oops.

I can only speak to what I know of here and as far as green initiatives, Yes, they have ALL been monumental Cockups.
Not a matter of Opinion, it's well and truly documented fact.

Look up the home insulation debacle that killed people, look up the carbon tax that screwed industry and did not one thing for the environment except cause more waste of energy and resources, the renewable energy targets that have plunged whole states into darkness and caused electricity costs to more than quadruple in less than 10 years. The was the solar scheme, a great idea BUT, they still managed to cock that up into a debacle as well. There was the recycling tax where they CHARGED you to take things to be recycled...and so it goes. Maybe one of the better ones that's on going atm although not a green initiative per se is the NBN.  Yes, spend BILLIONS putting in an internet pipeline that everyone knew would be outdated before it came near being finished then force people by law to use it when it's more expensive and a fraction of the speed with the old technology it replaced.
Brilliant!

That's just a few. The list of green initiative failures is long and shameful.
They had their chance here, they screwed it well and truly.  So much opportunity to really do something worth while and beneficial and when push came to shove, they let everyone down.

As far as green gubbermints mandates go, the question is not are they always wrong, the question is can you find ANY that even worked and weren't a complete disaster?

Quote
Did you know that Neanderthals actually had larger brains than modern man?

Neanderthals?.... The modern PC name for them now is "Concerned Environmentalists" right?   :laugh:
Same as globull warming is now Climate change when they discovered that wasn't working out for them either. 

glort

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Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2018, 01:59:50 AM »
Hi Guys, The point I was trying to make about green issues is this: we can`t put the fossil fuel genie back in the bottle.

Spot on as always Bob.
The world is Built on Fossil fuel. Right now, no matter how people want to whinge about it, there is NO replacement.  Somewhere along the line the green tech, as with EVERYTHING else, relies on oil for it's existence.
We don't know any other way and until we come up with a real and truly viable 100% replacement, all we can do is make the best of what we have.


 
Quote
What we can do is be more efficient in how we use it.  By all means install solar panels and other home generation systems and for all our sakes insulate your home.

Unfortunately the idea of Use less and offset what you do use is not acceptable to the green minded. They want complete elimination of everything fossil fueled TODAY.  They aren't happy with the idea of put panels on your roof and have the power station use that much less coal, all Coal power stations have to be completely eliminated whether there is an alternative generation method in place or not.

Following the green amenability, we'll all have flying cars next year no matter how many people crash and burn in them. The only important thing is that we have flying cars right so we can say, "we have flying cars. " the fact you can't get to work in one and have to take the conventional vehicle is irrelevant, have to have flying cars because that's the religion we subscribe to and nothing else will do.

Quote
If you wish to reduce your carbon footprint, good for you and good for the planet but most of all good for the hip pocket.

Nope sorry Bob, you are wrong there. You are not ALLOWED to think of it in money terms. The ONLY PC acceptable attitude is to do it for the environment.  Forget the fact that doing it to save money has the exact same outcome, it's the one track mindset that counts to the green washed.
If you are not doing it for the planet, then you are an environmental terrorist.

And again, reducing your consumption by say putting panels on your roof so you use a fraction of the grid power that everyone else uses is not good enough. the green upstarts will still put veiled shit on you and ridicule you for that as is you are a hypocrite for not wanting to drink the coolaide.
Of course the people that whinge the loudest are the ones usually doing a lot less than those they lambast.   ::)

Quote
I for one resent the amount of money I have to pay for electricity/petrol/diesel, anything I can do to reduce this expenditure is good for me, good for the environment and flicks the bird to greedy corporations/governments.

Me Too. I have fueled my vechicle on veg oil for 15 years. I do it to save money. Have you any idea the amount of times the green goobers have berated and leveled intense hate at me for saying " I'm in it for the money"?  According to them, I'm the scum of the earth because I don't do it for the lofty cause they subscribe to even though they don't do a fraction of what I do to meet that goal. the hypocrisy is just unbelievable.
And it does not stop with them. Even today.  ::)

Quote
Being as tight arsed as possible is the one thing we can all do to protect the future. Restoring an old engine, which will last you a lifetime, has got to be better than buying a brand new modern piece of crap that will only last until the guarantee expires.


Yeah, I love hearing how I'm doing the wrong thing running an old car because the emissions of newer ones are so much better and environmentally friendly.  Forget the fact I'm using " renewable" fuel and they are still being the typical hypocrites and using fossil fuel. it's the mindset that counts, not fact or reality.
That's just something annoying that shoots holes in the whole ideal of what they want to kid themselves into believing!



The SENSIBLE solution is to work gradually and practically to getting off fossil fuels. Do what we can as the technology allows towards the end goal so we don't go backwards in the process or cause more emissions or waste of resources than the way we are doing things now causes.

We need to be happy with the savings and benefits we can realise along the way rather than be in a gut busting hurry to fulfill an ideal and cause more problems than we solve.