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Author Topic: 6Kw Markon  (Read 484 times)

mikenash

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6Kw Markon
« on: June 12, 2018, 01:26:07 AM »

Found this little fellow on Trademe and paid $290 for it.  With a bit of luck someone wil give me $100 for the 16Hp Brigs and Stratton that was driving it

Looks to be a good mate for a CS 6/1

The dog-box and wiring and switches are all there, too, though not shown in pics _ un-wired them and took it off out of the way

I'd be interested in any thoughts or experience anyone has with these?  Thanks

broncodriver99

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 06:03:55 AM »
Nice score. You could probably even belt that up to a twin and have no worries.

mikenash

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2018, 12:14:33 AM »

OK guys.  I know there are brains out there - bear with me a moment while I pick some of them, please

And excuse what, to many of you, will sound like stupid questions

(I have attached a pic of the innards of the gen head at the end where the big capacitor is)

The previous owner has un-wired this unit from its petrol engine using side-cutters; but by looking at the innards of the dog-box and chasing the wires backwards, some things are obvious (I think)

So, firstly, some observations/clues . . . . then, secondly, some questions

Electrical observations:

OK - inside the dogbox there's a paired 35A circuit-breaker,  a rotary three-position main switch (which is largely about the electric starting & maybe running the engine without output from the head, perhaps?),  a three-pin plug outlet,  a voltmeter, an hour-meter and an ammeter.   There's nothing odd in there; nothing that might be an AVR or anything like that

Looking at the head, at the shaft end there's a cast cover I could take off for a look, but it looks as if it may be a carrier for one of the bearings and a dust-seal, so I have left it alone for the moment.  Of course the bearing may have a carrier behind that, and it may just hold the seal?

Looking inside any of the places I can see, I see no evidence of a slip-ring and brushes (if they are there, maybe they're behind that cast cover I just mentioned?)  Maybe the unit is brushless?

Looking at the four black, numbered, wires coming out, I would guess two of them are 230VAC and perhaps two are 12VDC?

Two of them (one and four) go to the top of two halves of the paired 35A circuit-breaker and the corresponding wires coming out of the bottom of it go to (black) the three-pin-plug and (red) the ammeter/main rotary switch

So, since I think I know what one and four do,  maybe it's a safe guess that two and three were originally attached to the loom where all the starting gubbins for the Brigs and Stratton live and that they effectively connect to the 12V battery there?

Mechanical observations:

Firstly, there doesn't appear to be any discernable axial or radial play - not that I can feel, and the hour-meter says 150 hours, so maybe things haven't done much work

The input shaft of the head seems to be 22mm with a 6mm key.

I was hard-coupled through a splined coupler to the 16HP Briggs and Stratton

So - enough with observations - now to stupid questions:

Looking at the capacitor end and the ID plate, is that enough for someone to identify the head?  Does it have brushes or is it brushless?

If it's brushless, does it care about direction of rotation?

That 22mm shaft seems small, to me.  My thought was to just attach a suitable pulley(s).  Then I wondered if, since it was direct-coupled, it's maybe not designed to tolerate the radial loads of a belt drive?  Could there be direct-couple models and belt-drive models?  it seems unlikely, but worth asking

Those four wires suggest maybe it needs 12VDC to excite?  Of course I could have that dead wrong.  But, if it does, where could I look inside to see which might be pos and which might be neg?

I think that covers it for now.  I'd appreciate the fruits of anyone's wisdom and experience

Thanks, Mike

tiger

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2018, 02:12:20 AM »
To me it looks like a 2 pole alternator 4 wire can be wired in series or parallel to achieve 240 volt or  and 120 volt and 120 volt only with lots of amps. the cap could mean brushless, look for diodes mounted on rotor. with only four leads no way a starter generator.
Metro 12/2 ST 10 KW

mikenash

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2018, 02:15:04 AM »

G'day Tiger

No.  Not a starter/generator

The Briggs and Stratton engine driving it had an electric start and I wondered if two of the Markon wires were taking 12VDC from the 12V starter solenoid at the Briggs

Cheers

tiger

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2018, 02:26:32 AM »
I would say not, with only 4 wires.
Metro 12/2 ST 10 KW

ajaffa1

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2018, 07:59:12 AM »
Hey Mike, on the mechanical side of things I`d be very tempted to mount your pulley on a short shaft, maybe 40mm diameter, with two pillar bearings to take the angular stresses of a tensioned belt. Might be worth using some sort of flexible coupling to the generator to allow for any misalignment.

If you want the electrical info contact Lucien Nunes on the UK stationary engine forum, He will know if anyone does. Apologies to this forum for recommending someone knowledgeable on another. (Hey Ade don`t suppose you could recruit him to our forum, maybe offer him free diodes or something).

Bob

EdDee

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2018, 09:00:40 AM »
Hi Mike,

Looking at the nameplate there is a big clue you missed.... 115V parallel 52A and 230V Series 26A - that's the four wires...

The rest of the construction views you have shown make it definitely a non brushed, cap-excited unit... (Find someone with a Capacitance meter to check it for you... 5 minutes well spent!)

As to bearings, run the largest pulley set you can, with the highest belt speed you can eke out of your system, this keeps belt tensions low and minimises radial bearing load. While looking a bit silly, it allows for a lot of leeway on the bearing side of things - Please check that the "front" bearing is in fair order before you wind it up - I have come across direct, hard-coupled units before where the front bearing was removed and the seal simply left in place to prevent dust ingress - but - this can be felt on the shaft as there was quite a bit of play (.5 mm or more) .... To check the bearings, use the "screwdriver stethoscope" trick, bearing rumble and condition can be clearly heard if things are dry or in bad condition - don't strip it down unless you have to...

Oh, and BTW, spinning those cap-excited units over at a lower than 80% or so of rated speed seldom gives output on the output terminals....

Hope this helps...

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
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mikenash

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2018, 12:12:34 AM »

Hi there Ed, Bob and others

see - I knew you guys would know . . .

Inside the old dogbox two of the four wire out of the Markon were twisted together and wound with insulating tape.  That'd be "series" then . . .

See pic below?  That's the original coupling.  And the bit at the motor end is 40mm with a 10mm keyway, fortuitously.  I'll talk to the machinist up the road and see how badly he'll overcharge me for a foot of 40mm with a couple of keyways

I have  John Deere multigroove pulley I'd like to use, as I like the "flat" belts and have a big flat drum bored-and-keyed for a CS output shaft that is probably close to 3:1 to the John Deere one.  I'll have a measure-up and a think

Does anyone have thoughts on whether that head "cares" about direction of rotation?

I'll see if I can find a microfarad man to look at the capacitor

Cheers


EdDee

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2018, 09:48:17 AM »
Hi Mike,

That head has a front bearing... I wouldn't waste time with a shaft extension, slap the pulley straight on - regarding direction, it shouldn't matter at all... as long as the head's cooling fan blades are straight and not curved, and the air outlets are not directionally orientated...

The pic shows an "open hole" above the bearing.... That looks like a spot that a push in grease nipple/oiler should be, probably bumped off or fallen out.... check it out and clean it, then reinstall if it has a channel to the bearing - even if you use "sealed bearings" on it, the plugging of that hole will help keep shit out of the bearing...

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

mikenash

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Re: 6Kw Markon
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2018, 11:43:51 PM »


Hi Ed

Good thoughts, thanks

I had a look at the fan and the vanes are flat, so I think it's probably direction-neutral, as you say

Cheers, Mike