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Author Topic: Lister L Questions  (Read 1242 times)

dmulally

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2018, 01:33:47 AM »
Another quick question. Does anybody have any idea of the hourly fuel consumption of a lister L?

glort

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2018, 02:59:42 AM »

I don't know but i'd guess they are not particularly economical. 
For a bit of sport, I'll register a guess based on what every other small engine seems to use and say between 280 and 360 g per hp hr.

Now I'll sit back and wait for the knowledgeable to let me know how far off I am!  :0)

dmulally

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2018, 03:15:52 AM »
Hey thanks, Glort.

I don't even know what the g means so you're one up on me. I have about a 15l tank and I seem to run it for an eternity and I haven't run out of petrol yet so I'm just curious. It only runs a small alternator so I don't think the load is much for the big flywheel. I'm waiting for it to run out so I can make a measuring stick in which I can do some proper testing.

I live off grid and am considering an upgrade of my batteries. But as they don't last anywhere as long as the manufacturers specs claim they do I'd like to do the maths to see where a lister fits into the price equation for winter.

glort

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2018, 09:17:24 AM »

I don't even know what the g means so you're one up on me.

G means grams as in weight.
Fuel in the real world is measured by weight not Volume because it expands and contracts.  This is particularly important with things like aircraft where you may be fueling at the airport where it's 35oC and get up in the air and it's -35 at altitude. the volume of the fuel would be very different but the weight is the same.
For accuracy consumption is done by weight rather than a standard temp which would always have to be adjusted.

Quote
It only runs a small alternator so I don't think the load is much for the big flywheel.

Load plays a big part of consumption. I have hear a lot of people talk about old engines as running all day on fumes but if it's a 2.5 Hp engine, it's not doing a lot.  The HP of an engine is determined by it's ability to burn fuel. More it burns, more power you get.
I have a couple of those cheap Chinese 2 stroke Generators.  They will run my computers and printers in the field all day because the load on them in low and a little intermittent as well. I don't think their Fuel consumption per Hp is anything but pretty high BUT, they last a long time on the load I am putting on them.

If the alternator you are running is from a car, the Charge control on them is pretty crap and they become inefficient. The alternators themselves are great, it's the CONTROLLERS that let them down. You would do well to bypass or remove the internal control and use an electronic external controller....depending on how many hours you run it and what your return on the investment of a controller would be time wise.
Better still, if you are going to put any real hours on the thing, get a Diesel and run it on waste oil being vegetable oil or engine oil.

Quote
But as they don't last anywhere as long as the manufacturers specs claim they do I'd like to do the maths to see where a lister fits into the price equation for winter.

I don't know how much you know about batteries but I know they need to be kept a fairly close eye on and voltages and discharge levels monitored closely.  I Check everything with a multi meter that has been checked itself for accuracy.  Near everything I have with a built in meter gives a different reading. 10'th of volts I don't worry about too much but a lot of it is 2-4V off and that IS a concern.  With a multi meter you know is good you get the real picture and can get some standardization going. If you were say 3V off on a battery pack, that would be enough to shorten it's like considerably.

I typically buy the Chinese Multi's off fleabay ( have a collection of them) and they are usually very good. Bought a better one recently and it's off quite a bit on voltage.  I have a mate who does some high end electrical work and has his exy meters calibrated every year, Very handy when he visits to get him to get his meter and compare mine.  I usually just write on the back what the difference is between his and mine. Usually surprisingly little, sometimes too much.

38ac

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2018, 12:03:43 PM »
Another quick question. Does anybody have any idea of the hourly fuel consumption of a lister L?

That is going to depend on your loading but they use a good bit even when doing nothing at all. They are quite inefficient as compared to a modern engine.  Although I have never actually checked fuel usage on my L or TL I would guess that under no load the L uses 1/2 gallon per hour and the TL is (of course) close to double that. Given a decent loading I would guess that the L will use 1 gallon per hour. 
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2018, 12:08:45 PM »
Our mate Glort is right , as usual, (very irritating) :) The amount of fuel used is totally dependent on the load. Be it a diesel or petrol engine the governor will try to maintain a steady RPM by increasing/decreasing the fuel pumped into the ICE. A heavy load burns more fuel, a light load less. Diesel engines run better under a heavy load and suffer from bore glazing and carbon build up under light loads. Your Lister L will be a lot less economical than a diesel (and noisier) but shouldn`t suffer from any of the problems associated with diesels at low loads.

Diesel engines have the advantage that they will run on a multitude of fuels: regular diesel, waste oils and vegetable oils, depending on where you live and what is available for free. Petrol is only available from the local, government taxed outlet, depending on your occupation some of the cost may be tax deductible.

Batteries are a PITA, they never last as long as they claim in the sales blurb and when you really need them they let you down. They are also very susceptible to damage from cold weather. I have two starter batteries for my back up generator that have always let me down, I now have both coupled to permanent maintenance chargers which come on every evening as the temperature drops.

The beauty of Lister engines is that they come with a crank handle, when every thing else has failed you will still have power and be able to maintain a comfortable living environment while everyone else sits in the cold and dark. :laugh:

Bob




glort

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2018, 12:57:16 PM »

The beauty of Lister engines is that they come with a crank handle, when every thing else has failed you will still have power and be able to maintain a comfortable living environment while everyone else sits in the cold and dark. :laugh:


And for some of us ( Waves) that's worth a lot of peace of mind and contentment even if it only happens once in a Blue moon.

My Dad was saying the other night he was going to sell some of his stuff off and mentioned his Honda generator. I said no you don't. He said I don't use it often, only when there is a blackout.   ( which in my book IS pretty often up there)  I said good enough reason to keep it. He said I can go to bed early if there are no lights and have something out the fridge for Dinner.  He wasn't coming round so I said Right, If you are determined to sell it, do not sell it to anyone else but me, tell me what you want and I'll deposit the money for you. He said what are you going to do with it? I said leave the bloody thing right where it is so when you have a black out you can use it and it's one less thing I have to worry about with you.
Finally he said OK then, if you are that keen for me to hold onto it.  I said I am, not like you need the money so keep it for in case.

Knowing my/his luck he'd sell the thing and the power would go out for 3 days the week after he sold it.

I want to look at getting a change over switch installed.  Should be able to wire it to the 2 Phases everything is on. Only the AC needs 3 phase.
If I'm going to have a 10 Kw genny, I want to be able to have the lights on right through the end of the world.  :0)

Those battery float charges are a good investment Bob. I bought some ebay Cheapies for Dad some years ago to put on mowers and tractors, chippers and all the rest of his gear. He says he doesn't know why he didn't get them 20 years ago. Only replaced one battery since he's had them instead of about 1 every 2 years per machine.

dmulally

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2018, 09:14:12 PM »


Quote
It only runs a small alternator so I don't think the load is much for the big flywheel.

If the alternator you are running is from a car, the Charge control on them is pretty crap and they become inefficient. The alternators themselves are great, it's the CONTROLLERS that let them down. You would do well to bypass or remove the internal control and use an electronic external controller....depending on how many hours you run it and what your return on the investment of a controller would be time wise.
Better still, if you are going to put any real hours on the thing, get a Diesel and run it on waste oil being vegetable oil or engine oil.


Hi Glort,

I have a pretty interesting (to me) set up for back up charging. 95% of the work is done by solar panels and a wind turbine in winter. But for the rest the little tractor/drag racing alternator goes through to a three stage charger. It is called a Pro-Alt C by Stirling and it not only charges my batteries at the correct voltage, it acts as an external regulator. So it controls the amps in during bulk, absorption and float.

I have other generators which are pure sine wave rated and fine to run external chargers but they simply aren't as much fun as the Lister.

I have a diesel lister SR3 but it is seized. Any ideas on where to start to get it running? I am used to whipping off the head and using a lump of wood and hammer to free a stuck piston but to be honest I know nothing about diesels. Every time my David Brown tractor sh1ts the bed I could weep!  :D

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2018, 10:55:35 PM »
Glort, if you want a change over switch have a look at these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125A-Changeover-Switch-Mains-Standby-Generator/382510128826?hash=item590f615eba

I bought one and had it shipped to Australia for about a third of the price of buying one here.

Regarding your seized SR3, before you start dismantling everything remove the fuel injectors and fill the bores with penetrating oil, leave for a week and then see if it will turn over. If it`s just a little surface rust in the bores you might get lucky.

If you do have to strip it down the cylinders can be re-bored and Dieselgman should be able to provide over sized pistons.

Bob

dmulally

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2018, 11:04:56 PM »
Thanks. How much oil do you suggest I whack in there?

glort

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2018, 01:30:22 AM »

Thanks Bob. Looks a good one. 125A is more than the wires off the pole are rated to here so that will do nicely.




Sounds like you have the exact type of controller I had in mind.  Those things make an alt very efficient and you certainly aren't going to be wasting much fuel with that setup what ever you drive it with. I look at a lot of DIY power things and I'm surprised how many people don't know these external regs and how good and relatively cheap they are.

You need to get enough oil in the bores to cover the pistons and be able to run down the sides of the rings. 
Probably 100Ml of oil in the engine per bore should do it. It's not critical.

There is also a train of popular thought that the best thing to free rusted parts is water. Sounds wrong but water will penetrate rust better than anything else because it was the catalyst for the problem in the first place. You wouldn't want to leave it sit there long before trying to turn the engine over.

I have found with smaller engines you just need a big bar on the shaft to crack them and then slowly get them moving back and forth with some kero or diesel down the bore and go from there.

dmulally

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2018, 01:37:03 AM »
Thanks once again.

I tried the big bar trick already and it cracked the small flywheel. I might take some pictures and post some results. Could help somebody. I can't see myself wanting to run a diesel 1500rpm engine inside the shed but always good to have a backup.

I also have a 1920's regal but is missing a mag.

glort

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2018, 02:04:29 AM »
If you are not worried about originality, you could source a maggy from your local airport. Planes use them and after they do so many hours they are sent to be rebuilt.  they come in 4, 6 or 8 Cyl but you just need one output and time the thing from there.

Then again, may not want to use an old engine like that for long grunt work.

Other than listers, I consider the best engine out there are the Chines Horizontal Diesels. They are Yanmar Clones and come in an endless lot of HP and configurations bot air and water cooled. They are built like tanks, run forever and the ones I have all exceed their rated horsepower substantially.  They are pretty much impossible to get here but looking at some vids  the other night I saw one where there was a yard of them in Thailand or Vietnam that had hundreds if not 1000 of the things.

I have an investment that should come in late in the year and I have decided I'll import some some of these engines. couple to keep, sell the rest see if I can finance them.

The Vertical Cyl Chinese diesels aren't bad either. Bit Noisy but you can run them on Veg or engine oil and as a disposable motor which I consider them to be, they are pretty good. If nothing else spares are easy to get online and cheap so rebuilding them is viable.  For what it sounds the use you have for them, probably get 10years minimum out them anyway with a bit of care.

Like listeroids, they certainly don't get much care in their home and major markets.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2018, 03:04:42 AM »
You could also try a mixture of automatic transmission fluid and acetone. some people report good results though I`ve never tried it myself.

Bob

dmulally

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Re: Lister L Questions
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2018, 09:32:50 PM »
Here are my other engines. The regal is the one that I need to adapt some sort of magneto for as it turns relatively smooth and this is the seized diesel.