Author Topic: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore  (Read 1143 times)

saba

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Re: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2018, 01:19:53 AM »
Hello listeroil, thanks for the pointer. I am dutch.

I work abroad so for the coming weeks there's not gonna be much action from my side, but when i'm home i will visit the machine shop with a cilinder block  and ask his opinion. The perkins he did for me he later machined the inside to spec. I will hear what the guy has to say, for them it's just some extra pocket money there normal job is biogas engines, combined heat and power engines.
Here at my job I have equipment that i could give it a try myself but taking a cilinder block in my suitcase is not an option.
Maybee he will give me pointers of what size to order or he will get them himself we shall see.
If I would live nearby I would bring them to mister 38ac was it only to have look at his shop.

Thanks for the input

Bernhard

saba

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Re: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2018, 07:04:41 AM »
Just looked again at westwood liners, there's a 1mm finish left so that must be the one.....

38ac

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Re: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2018, 11:20:46 AM »
The bore size listed  is not what you will have after it is pressed in a block!  It is a size that you can expect it will finish finish if properly installed. NO matter how round or what size a thin wall dry liner is when you purchase it it will be neither one after it is pressed in.  The actual process is you measure the sleeve O.D. in four spots, average the measurements and bore the block several thousands smaller depending on bore size. Because I do a few of them I have a fixture for the CS. After boring the block on the HBM I move the table back and press the sleeve in the block with a 25 ton porta power. Next the top is trimmed and a light deck cut is made on the same machine. Then the sleeve is bored  .010 under size and then honed to size.

Here is a couple videos taken before I made up my block jig. The HBM was built in 1939 and is true within .0002 length of the bed, amazing.

Boring a CS block on the #25 Giddings Lewis   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M6cVL-M5Gs

Facing a CS head on same machine  https://youtu.be/bV1EGJ43YB4
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

glort

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Re: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2018, 11:56:18 AM »

The cheapest Crap supermarket oil you can get your hands on these days is at worst one rating specification below the good stuff.
That makes the cheap oil about 5000 times better than could have been dreamed of when the engines were made.... or the originals were stopped being made.

I read up on oil a while back and something I read espoused that the old thing of changing the filter every 2nd change was the worst thing that could be done.  If there is enough crap in the oil to block it it 2 changes worth of running, once the filter blocks and goes to bypass all that will be chewing out the metal. They said better to run clean old oil than dirty new oil.  Makes sense to me.

On that end, putting a Filter on surely couldn't hurt. Question is, would it help?
Would the engine with the filter get appreciably longer life than if it did not have a filter?  Time the one without the filter needs a rebuild, would the one with a filter be tired and buggered anyway?

My guess is it probably would because as pointed out, the wear factor isn't just limited to the oil.

One thing that did and still does strive me as very ignorant and naieve is people that want an engine to start fast.
I saw this all the time in veg oil circles. People gauges the quality of their oil/ bio by wether the thing would fire on teh 2nd compression stroke.
I find this ..... Dumb... really.

I had a car in my younger days with a very worked engine. I had the ignition set up so there was a kill switch on the coil. This wasn't to deter theft, I put it there so I could wind the thing up a bit till I knew the oil pump was primed before I started it to avoid those few sec where she would be running dry.
Doing it this way, on start up the tack and the oil pressure needles moved at the exact same time when I did light.

When I had my mercc, the thing had a manual Glow plug button. Same thing, wind it up a bit to get the oil pump primed, glow the plugs then light it up.
The one I have now has auto plugs but I get in it and wind it over straight away  so it's primed a bit before the thing fires.

Merlin's and other aircraft  as well as tank engines had electric oil priming pumps as do/did some race cars and boats.  They are meant to have the engines at near or full oil pressure when they hit.  Once running the primer pump is switched off.

Would seem to me to be real easy to do with a Lister. Wind it over on the compressor to get the oil moving a bit longer in cold weather then drop the valve. For those with a pump, this would work well, For those without, hard to know if there will be enough splash but there soon will be!  :0)

saba

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Re: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2018, 12:58:19 AM »
To 38ac,

Thats a machine.....you can bore tunnels with that.
impressive.

Bernhard

ajaffa1

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Re: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2018, 02:08:22 AM »
Wow, what a sweet machine, can`t tell you how much I want one of those.
Bob

listard-jp2

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Re: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2018, 07:47:34 AM »
Even Lister's themselves tired of the Chromard process towards the end of Lister CS production, as the later engines which have the modified cylinder block [the crankcase end has a lot less material in the casting, and the 3/4" BSW studs are completely exposed at the crankcase end] are un-plated in the cylinder bore.

It used to be possible [no more] to get finished to size chrome plated dry press liners from here: http://www.laystall.co.uk/cyl-products.php

But you can still get an Indian approximation if you know where to look, and indeed it is the case that some of the Indian manufacturers who don't have the chrome plating ability, buy these liners and press fit them to their own cylinder blocks.

See here for an example of what I mean: https://www.stationaryengineparts.com/Lister-CS-type-Cylinder.html

Did a bit of dry liner installation work myself back in the day, I used to leave an extra 0.001" in the bore, then with a cylinder bore hone we used to knock the high spots off, left by the Van Norman 777 boring bar. This made liner installation so much easier and with a lot less distortion.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 11:06:42 AM by listard-jp2 »

Johndoh

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Re: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2018, 12:12:26 PM »
http://realdiesels.co.uk

http://www.sleeman-hawken.co.uk/suppliers/lister-petter.html

Both these companies have obsolete and hard to find parts for old engines. real diesels have the lower postage rates!
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

saba

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Re: witch liners for a lister 6-1 to rebore
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2018, 06:16:12 PM »
A small update on the matter, I got a quote from westwood liners, 38 pounds for a liner. Without tax and postage.

I found another workshop in the nabourhood they charge 60 euro's for boring 10 for pressing it in and another 60 for the finish.He could not give me a price for the liner but he mentioned it would not be breathtaking. So thats 130 euro without tax for the work. Not bad I think. I will think about it I have at least three that are maxed out on size if you add it up it still some money....

If I go ahead I will post the results,

Bernhard